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Old 26th October 2013, 23:15   #376
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Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Well, I kind of agree but also feel that with the Fortuner and the Pajero Sport, you really don't get what you pay for. You get a lot lesser.

When it comes to the Storme or the XUV/Scorpio, I feel that you get more than what you pay for but with its caveats.
That is your perception of value.

For example, guderian who upgraded from a scorpio has a different reception of the fortuner's value.

At the end of the day, one can travel in a VW VENTO and SKODA SUPERB.

It is all about perceived value, which varies from person to person.

So, I dont see any point in debating about Fortuner's lack of VFM as per your perception.

You like the STORME from the looks of it. I think you should go ahead.
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Old 27th October 2013, 10:01   #377
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Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

Have any of you considered the Ssangyong Rexton or the Hyundai Santa-Fe.
Rexton is a great SUV but lacks in service. Somebody wrote a detailed travelogue - Driving a Rexton through Spiti without a problem.
Santa-Fe is a world class SUV too.
Just some more ideas to add to the confusion of this thread

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Old 27th October 2013, 10:41   #378
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That is your perception of value.

It is all about perceived value, which varies from person to person.

So, I dont see any point in debating about Fortuner's lack of VFM as per your perception.
You have missed the point here a little, what dev opines here and so do I, consider a situation that there is no other SUV available other than TFort. People may buy it for even 50L but what is its value when there is nothing else to compare? Considering what it offers and does not, without comparing it with any other SUV. I'd say it would have been fair value if it was priced 5L more than Storm, but anything more than that is free money to the seller.
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Old 27th October 2013, 10:46   #379
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Originally Posted by zulfi hansi View Post

You have missed the point here a little, what dev opines here and so do I, consider a situation that there is no other SUV available other than TFort. People may buy it for even 50L but what is its value when there is nothing else to compare? Considering what it offers and does not, without comparing it with any other SUV. I'd say it would have been fair value if it was priced 5L more than Storm, but anything more than that is free money to the seller.
May be true, but the sales figures aren't reflecting the above school of thought.

Which again comes back to perceived value.

Buyers are ok paying 28L, it is the motor heads like us who get in to the details.

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Old 27th October 2013, 10:50   #380
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Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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You have missed the point here a little, what dev opines here and so do I, consider a situation that there is no other SUV available other than TFort. People may buy it for even 50L but what is its value when there is nothing else to compare? Considering what it offers and does not, without comparing it with any other SUV. I'd say it would have been fair value if it was priced 5L more than Storm, but anything more than that is free money to the seller.
Precisely my point and it has been agreed to by a lot of us here. Toyota is milking its customers here, simply because there are no choices in that segment.

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May be true, but the sales figures aren't reflecting the above school of thought.
Sales figures also do not reflect that the Storme is leagues ahead of the Scorpio.
So, can that fact be negated? Not in my opinion.

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Have any of you considered the Ssangyong Rexton or the Hyundai Santa-Fe.
I need a vehicle with a proper 4H and 4L modes, preferably using a lever but I can compromise for a button/knob.

Now, the Rexton AT, which has all the other bells whistles for its price is an AWD and not a 4WD.

The Santa Fe is even more expensive compared to the Toyota and the Mitsubishi and it looks quirky in my opinion.

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Old 27th October 2013, 10:53   #381
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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post

Precisely my point and it has been agreed to by a lot of us here. Toyota is milking its customers here, simply because there are no choices in that segment.

Sales figures also do not reflect that the Storme is leagues ahead of the Scorpio.
So, can that fact be negated? Not in my opinion.
Sir, it is all about perception.

You are able to see the value of storme, others aren't.

That's where team bhp comes in to picture. Perceived value vs actual value.

But then the current market is ruthless and prefers reliability, where toyota excels.

Last edited by F150 : 27th October 2013 at 10:56.
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Old 27th October 2013, 11:49   #382
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May be true, but the sales figures aren't reflecting the above school of thought.

Which again comes back to perceived value.

Buyers are ok paying 28L, it is the motor heads like us who get in to the details.
Agreed. Perceived value derived here by us at tbhp is for what it offers while we exclude the non productive part of so called image value, which ironically is the only reason why TFort is overpriced since more than 80% of its buyers do not buy it for what it offers in its abilities and as a car but for what it gives them in terms of image boost in the society, even Etios is also a Toyota but how many are buying it? In its right even that is a Toyota and offers most of what any Toyota does, but it does not offer image value, which IMHO is a completely redundant reason to account for value addition. A car is what it technically offers and nothing more. If you take away that component from the fortuner, what is its value? Even corolla was at this epitome once but not anymore, I am sure Toyota without blinking will drop that premium off if at all Fortuner loses its so called image boosting capabilities, but that is easier said than done. Toyota is a smart company it started to offer what its majority fortuner customers wanted, a 4x2 old school SUV! As if it makes any sense for people like us here, but in economics it does. So sales figures can never be a parameter for tbhpens.

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Old 27th October 2013, 12:02   #383
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Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

What Fortuner offers is reliability, low maintenance and an extensive service network. People the world over buy Toyota for primarily that reason. The Pajero has reliability but no service network worth the name, and the company is clue less here.

The Indian 4x4 offerings have a lot more accessories and comfort, they have a wide service network, but sadly the bulletproof reliability is missing. That is why the buyers pay more for Toyota even though they are "boring" to dive.
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Old 27th October 2013, 15:23   #384
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Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Originally Posted by F150 View Post
Sir, it is all about perception.

You are able to see the value of storme, others aren't.

That's where team bhp comes in to picture. Perceived value vs actual value.

But then the current market is ruthless and prefers reliability, where toyota excels.
Yes, this is where forums like TBHP come in. They help people in choosing "real value" over "perceived value".

If we enthusiasts and better enlightened people than most were to go by the market, such forums lose their importance and effectiveness.


Also, coming to the reliability Toyota offers, I have no reason to complain after having traveled with Hariya(My CRDe Scorpio) for the past 92k kms and neither do the owners of the Safari 2.2 post 2010.

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So sales figures can never be a parameter for tbhpians.
Summed it perfectly Zulfi.
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Old 1st November 2013, 14:37   #385
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Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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So sales figures can never be a parameter for tbhpens.
That's why I bought a Fiat Linea T-Jet!
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Old 1st December 2013, 20:16   #386
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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post

Yes, this is where forums like TBHP come in. They help people in choosing "real value" over "perceived value".
Thanks for the insights dev..yours and forums views helps us narrow down to only fortuner 4*4 mt. Hopefully it arrives within a couple of months
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Old 4th December 2013, 20:18   #387
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Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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Thanks for the insights dev..yours and forums views helps us narrow down to only fortuner 4*4 mt. Hopefully it arrives within a couple of months
You are most welcome. I visit JBP at least twice every year when I drive to Singrauli and would be interested to meet you when I pass that city the next time.

OT: I was at Lakhnadon a couple of days ago as well.
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Old 10th December 2013, 04:09   #388
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Got to know from M&M asst. Mgr that Korando is to be launched in Feb 2014, they were very sure of this news but no more details. @dev I don't know how much this news is relevant for you, but even the Rexton RX5 manual is now 23.85L OTR, but offered with discounts of 1L, if negotiated further may give you another 25K, but IMO I don't think its VFM even at 22.6L OTR, since the last row seats are best for patient kids! Effectively its a overgrown 5 seater. For me Korando could make sense though subject to a lot of things.
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Old 10th December 2013, 09:43   #389
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Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

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IMO I don't think its VFM even at 22.6L OTR, since the last row seats are best for patient kids! Effectively its a overgrown 5 seater.
Apart from the iffy ergonomics, it the questionable M&M ability to support the Rexton that keeps me away from it. Also, Ssangyong in itself is not a very well known brand for its reliability which adds to the suspicion.
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Old 10th December 2013, 10:44   #390
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Re: Which is the best diesel 4WD (Not AWD) SUV under 22 lac INR?

True, the product looks good but the brand is not reputed enough to fork out that kind of money (23L). In long term high mileage usage resale value may not matter much but the service support and reliability certainly does. BTW incidentally saw a Santafe at one of the dealers in Sadashivnagar, it was 2011-12 run about 70K, looked good atleast on surface and priced at 16.5L negotiable, probably might come down to 15L. To my little it was priced significantly lower than a comparable Fortuner. But yes it does look quirky.
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