[HappyRoadie]

I will suggest you to go with Scorpio as Pajero is quite old and its engine is underpowered. Although I would suggest you to check out second hand Endeavour as well.

[nilanjanray]

Yes, good suggestion: why not a second hand 4X4 Endeavour? Will fit your budget, is tough, hopefully reliable over the years (no personal experience - but Everest is doing good duty in other countries), tons of space. Only issues would be ride quality and handling I think.

I test drove the 4X4 Endy once, it seemed tough. Perhaps a little more truck like than the Fortuner. But then again, the Fortuner seemed very truck like when I test drove it immediately after driving an Outlander. So one gets used to things...

[khoj]

That is because the Fortuner is nothing but the Hi-LUX truck on to which a full size cab has been plonked and our country men have fallen for it hook, line and sinker while Toyota laughs all the way to the bank.

If the size meets the requirement, I believe the OP should wait for the Renault Duster.

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

I test drove the 4X4 Endy once, it seemed tough. Perhaps a little more truck like than the Fortuner. But then again, the Fortuner seemed very truck like when I test drove it immediately after driving an Outlander. So one gets used to things...

[GTO]

The Pajero, old as it might be, is a very, very well-built vehicle. The engineering is simple, the build extremely solid and Pajeros are known to last forever. Even if you get a well-maintained example with 40,000 clicks on the odo, she would still have another 2+ lakh kms of useable life to offer.

Therefore, I recommend a pre-worshipped Pajero over a new Mahindra Scorpio to you. In terms of quality, ride & handling, the Pajero blows the Scorpio out of the water.

Equally, I'd highly advise you to check out the Mahindra XUV500. In my books, it's amongst the best SUVs on sale in India. If you are worried about niggles, give Mahindra another 6 - 12 months (longer the better) to iron out the initial gremlins.

An XUV would be choice no.1 for me and the Scorpio no.3.

[drmohitg]

BTW if diesel is not a strict requirement then you can probably also take a look at a used outlander perhaps. They lose massively in the used car market and you might get a relatively new car at a throwaway price.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Hey just wanted to make sure you didn't miss out on the Ford Endeavour option.
I would most certainly suggest you to not go for a new scorpio. However good a car is, one does get bored after some time.

I too feel that a repeat Scorpio might become boring, especially when I intend to use it for a at least the next decade. The Endy option Doc, is ruled out, I have driven one extensively and felt very uncomfortable due to its sitting position, that quirky autobox and its pathetic FE. The version I drove was a 2011 Sept 4x2 AT.

Originally Posted by ashwin_seattle

Stay away from Pajero - specially used ones. My cousin bought a used one last year and believe me, he is cursing the day he made that decision. Lots of maintenance, unrefined, and uh that 90s feeling. It was a good vehicle in the 90s/early 2000...not ANYMORE!

You know that is the problem. The Pajero seems to be a "love it or loathe it" vehicle. I m neutral though. While actual users like your brother loathe it due to it unrefined nature, people like Mahesh and GTO recommend it. Aargh..why is this so difficult.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Any day a New or Used Fortuner in comparison to the XUV.
However, if one is slightly more discerning, one would step back a bit and take a longer view before making a decision.

Perhaps it might be a good idea to wait for that new Captiva OR Trailblazer OR at least view the Ssangyong products when they come, before plonking money down now.

Others like the Force One, Safari Storme etc are completely out of the running in my opinion because what they have offered to consumers is too little, too late. In any case they arent close to expectations when it comes to a discerning customers requirements.

Yes indeed, we still dont have that many proper SUV options but this is changing quite rapidly.

Precisely Shankar, the XUV, at least in its current avatar and known issues of flywheels, front suspension, MID and others, does not appeal to me, today. Moreover, I d rather have a full blown SUV with proper low range transfer case than a crossover.
Also, the XUV's rear bench has been compromised on width which makes it uncomfortable on long journeys for tall people. I have actually measured it with the Scorpio and Safari rear benches and it is around 3 inches shorter in width.

Originally Posted by HappyRoadie

I will suggest you to go with Scorpio as Pajero is quite old and its engine is underpowered. Although I would suggest you to check out second hand Endeavour as well.

The Scorpio is certainly in my books but look at what the others say about it. Gawd I m stuck, big time. The Endy is ruled out, I never liked the seating position one bit.

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

Yes, good suggestion: why not a second hand 4X4 Endeavour?
I test drove the 4X4 Endy once, it seemed tough. Perhaps a little more truck like than the Fortuner.

Not a little more but "very much" truck like Nilanjan. Moreover it lacks basic features I d expect from a vehicle of its class; auto a/c, steering mounted audio controls, high floor, low seats, lack of driver seat height adjust. The Pajero is not expected have these features since it known to be old and outdated, but the Endy...doesn't cut it for me at all.

Originally Posted by khoj

If the size meets the requirement, I believe the OP should wait for the Renault Duster.

You see Khoj, my issue is the availability of spare parts, especially small spares which has always been the Achilles heel at M&M. I do not know if I should trust a newcomer, Renault on this front. Waiting is no problem though.

Originally Posted by GTO

Therefore, I recommend a pre-worshipped Pajero over a new Mahindra Scorpio to you. In terms of quality, ride & handling, the Pajero blows the Scorpio out of the water.
Equally, I'd highly advise you to check out the Mahindra XUV500. In my books, it's amongst the best SUVs on sale in India. If you are worried about niggles, give Mahindra another 6 - 12 months (longer the better) to iron out the initial gremlins.

An XUV would be choice no.1 for me and the Scorpio no.3.

Rush, what about the cost of regular spares and other consumables? If they are prohibitively expensive, I mind end up getting a white elephant. Coming to the XUV, like I said, I prefer to choose "when" I want to engage 4WD and "if" I want 4H or 4L, rather than a computer doing it for me.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

BTW if diesel is not a strict requirement then you can probably also take a look at a used outlander perhaps. They lose massively in the used car market and you might get a relatively new car at a throwaway price.

No Doc, I love the Outlander but its running costs owing to its petrol heart are up there, in the stratosphere.

Like the Coffee Bite ad, "The Argument Continues"....for the benefit of all.

[drmohitg]

Well I am not sure where your search is headed . From what i have understood:

1. Scorpio: good car. You have been using one. So I would suggest go for another car now. Also since you are considering 20L SUVs the scorpio is just not in the same league ( not its fault ofcourse).

2. Fortuner: New one is out of your budget but the car does suit your needs perfectly. Again I am not sure how much you are willing to spend but I am scared that even a used Fortuner might not be available for 15L. The best deals I can see in Delhi are around 16-17L. In bangalore I believe it will be closer to 19-20L. BTW how much does a new fortuner cost in the garden city as of today? I am guessing more then 25L.

3. Pajero: Good car but dated interiors. After sales can be iffy. My personal experience with Mitsubishi while getting my lancer serviced hasn't been great and I stopped visiting them and get the car serviced outside. Spares should not be an issue since the car has been around for more than a decade.

Out of the above suddenly the Pajero looks the best bet to me if you are fine with the interiors. The exterior looks awesome and I would say better then the Fortuner to me.

Lastly ofcourse you can wait a little more and see how the XUV fairs out. Also by that time Mahindra would have launched the Ssangyong line up. Also the new Safari would be out. And the prices of used Fortuners would have come down too . Happy hunting!

Edit: What about the Captiva? Have you checked that out? It comes with 4 wheel drive too right?

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by khoj

That is because the Fortuner is nothing but the Hi-LUX truck on to which a full size cab has been plonked and our country men have fallen for it hook, line and sinker while Toyota laughs all the way to the bank.

If the size meets the requirement, I believe the OP should wait for the Renault Duster.

I am aware of what Fortuner is and isn't - I have driven one for close to 25000 kms in all sorts of terrain. And its Hilux gene is actually a positive for me and perhaps a few more here.

Thank you for your effort in educating us though .

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Dev, to me, for two cars with quite similar specs, I would prefer something which gives me peace of mind, doesn't matter if I get 10-20 horses less for riding or some thing gets rickety and falls off ! For me the thought of my family stranded in a desolate place matters more than a few horses standing under my hood.

On a similar note, I must also say that cars today require ASC backup for most of their major work, hence, simpler the things in your ride, the better it is in times of crisis. In such a scenario a manufacturer with good service, availability of spare parts and other paraphernalia make or break the deal for me.

Now you decide depending on your previous experiences.

Spike

[lohithrao]

My friend Dev i think you are on a journey which actually may not end, hehe the parameters which you have set may challenge all he options you have shortlisted.

practically i wont look at a used car if my intent id of using it for real long and if i do then the budget set for that will be limited, reason with 14+lacs if i buy a used car in most case wont have a warrantly cover which opens up the risk factor on which considerin you are picking this car on loan used car loan will be expensive.

realistically i would stick with Scorpio as its not a bad vehicle at all, maybe some % of compromise but i have a brand new vehicle and a warranty cover which will keep me at peace.

on the parts availability, in todays fragile and ever changing market am not sure what will be the spare scene 5or 7years down the line for any car...

I know its hard to decide between mind and the heart

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Well I am not sure where your search is headed .
1. Scorpio: good car. You have been using one. So I would suggest go for another car now. Also since you are considering 20L SUVs the scorpio is just not in the same league ( not its fault ofcourse).

My search is headed to a conclusion based on mutual discussions and consensus to the extent possible.
I do not know if I ll be bored of the Scorpio if I buy it again but what I need is a long term service assurance, which doesn't seem to be forthcoming.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

2. Fortuner:I am scared that even a used Fortuner might not be available for 15L. The best deals I can see in Delhi are around 16-17L. In bangalore I believe it will be closer to 19-20L. BTW how much does a new fortuner cost in the garden city as of today? I am guessing more then 25L.

I too have not yet found a Fortuner for 15L, however I do not mind purchasing one from Delhi and using it in Blore, the only issue being the bank sanctioning the loan for it from a different city. The hunt is on though.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

3. Pajero: Good car but dated interiors. After sales can be iffy. My personal experience with Mitsubishi while getting my lancer serviced hasn't been great and I stopped visiting them and get the car serviced outside. Spares should not be an issue since the car has been around for more than a decade.

Out of the above suddenly the Pajero looks the best bet to me if you are fine with the interiors. The exterior looks awesome and I would say better then the Fortuner to me.

Lastly ofcourse you can wait a little more and see how the XUV fairs out. Also by that time Mahindra would have launched the Ssangyong line up. Also the new Safari would be out. And the prices of used Fortuners would have come down too . Happy hunting!

Edit: What about the Captiva? Have you checked that out? It comes with 4 wheel drive too right?

Well, the Pajero does appeal a lot to the heart but the head feels otherwise especially when it comes to the cost of spares as penned here by a few actual owners. That is what scares me.

I TDed the Captiva long ago and it is devoid of the SUV feel in terms of build, handling and a lot of other things. The AWD is available only in the AT variant and hence doesn't suit my requirements.

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

I am aware of what Fortuner is and isn't - I have driven one for close to 25000 kms in all sorts of terrain. And its Hilux gene is actually a positive for me and perhaps a few more here.

It is plus point for me too, only if I get one in the range that I m looking for.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

I too have not yet found a Fortuner for 15L, however I do not mind purchasing one from Delhi and using it in Blore, the only issue being the bank sanctioning the loan for it from a different city. The hunt is on though.

But it will end up costing you the same amount right since you would need to pay road tax in Bangalore again? Its a big headache driving an outstation number car there ( from my own personal experience).

But if this option is open then you might want to keep a tab on the used car market in places specially like Chandigarh and punjab. Chandigarh because the road tax there is only 3% and hence lower original OTR of the car. Punjab because you will be surprised to see that many NRIs etc come there, buy a car and then have to move again. There are many a good deals if one is careful and patient. I read something similar happening in Gujrat too owning to the large NRI population in another thread on the forum sometime back.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

On a similar note, I must also say that cars today require ASC backup for most of their major work, hence, simpler the things in your ride, the better it is in times of crisis. In such a scenario a manufacturer with good service, availability of spare parts and other paraphernalia make or break the deal for me.

Now you decide depending on your previous experiences.

Spike

So, to make things simple, what do you suggest, keeping yourself in my place?

Originally Posted by lohithrao

Realistically i would stick with Scorpio as its not a bad vehicle at all, maybe some % of compromise but i have a brand new vehicle and a warranty cover which will keep me at peace.

on the parts availability, in todays fragile and ever changing market am not sure what will be the spare scene 5or 7years down the line for any car...

Lohit my friend, that is why I m somehow dragged towards the Japanese brands, because one can only hypothesize and hypothesis tells me that even today, getting spares of a Toyota or a Mitsubishi is simpler than getting spares for a Mercedes or a Mahindra.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

But it will end up costing you the same amount right since you would need to pay road tax in Bangalore again? Its a big headache driving an outstation number car there ( from my own personal experience).

There are ways of not paying this unduly high road tax and using the vehicle at Blore, legally.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

But if this option is open then you might want to keep a tab on the used car market in places specially like Chandigarh and punjab. Chandigarh because the road tax there is only 3% and hence lower original OTR of the car. Punjab because you will be surprised to see that many NRIs etc come there, buy a car and then have to move again. There are many a good deals if one is careful and patient. I read something similar happening in Gujrat too owning to the large NRI population in another thread on the forum sometime back.

My main concern and apprehension about buying PB, CD and DL vehicles is the possibility of them being used very roughly but their owners compared to say, a Bangalore vehicle since people in those parts are known to pimp up their rides and use/abuse them to the fullest. In fact, I have heard of Pajeros being used to plough fields, pull tractors out etc etc and washing machines being used to make lassis, at weddings.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

My main concern and apprehension about buying PB, CD and DL vehicles is the possibility of them being used very roughly... I have heard of Pajeros being used to plough fields, pull tractors out etc etc...

Dev, the diplomatic community has not fallen on such hard times in Delhi that they need to take out their Pajeros and plough fields, recover tractors etc. I don't think they do it for sport either! DL reg. 4x4 SUVs are also often known not to have ever gone off-road, even never engaged their 4L.

[khoj]

You could find in the Tata Aria what is lacking in the Fortuner. I spent the last three days travelling in an Aria and each and every feature listed by you below as missing in the Fortuner is there and then some, including on the fly selectable 4x2, 6 airbags and auto aircon with individual vents for the second and third rows complete with fan control etc. I drove it extensively in both 4x4 and 4x2 modes and while it does not feel like a truck(like the Sumo of yore), it has miles to go before it can start to think of being in the same league as a refined 4x4 like say, my company provided Grand Vitara. The ride is far better than the Scorpio which again I have driven in bits and pieces some years ago. Aria handles the rough patches and fast switchbacks without any of the wallowing movements and especially with negligible body roll which are omnipresent in the Scorpio. To be fair it is a different platform/class compared to the Scorpio. It does however wear the TATA badge and the spares story could be the same as M&M.

As for the availability of spares for Renault. If it is of any help my cousin had a couple of Teanas and an Xtrail with him over the last couple of years. His rides accumulate highway and city miles pretty quickly and while his vehicles made more than their fare share of trips to the Nissan service centres for regular servicing and running repairs, he never had his vehicles being stuck at the dealership for want of parts. The point is, if Nissan's service centres are well stocked and humming, then Renault which is the mother company should not be found lacking.

I myself am looking forward to the Duster, as with the GV the commanding view, the grip of the 4x4 and several similar bugs have bitten me and I am hoping that the Renault would be a good starting/testing platform for me before I decide on something more refined.

Coming to the Pajero's spares and the costs thereof. I myself have a Cedia and I have never had an episode in the 2 years of ownership of a spare part not being available(including some very slow moving ones, such as plastic floor trims and A pillar trims etc). Further Cedia's parts are also easily available in the aftermarket channel. Now it is no secret that the Pajero sales outstrip that of the Cedia by a humongous margin, hence one can rest assured that sourcing Pajero spares will not be a problem through either channel. Further Mitsubishi unlike its other Japanese cousins has a strong tradition of selling child parts (thanks in part to its rich rally heritage). This too leads to economical part replacement.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Not a little more but "very much" truck like Nilanjan. Moreover it lacks basic features I d expect from a vehicle of its class; auto a/c, steering mounted audio controls, high floor, low seats, lack of driver seat height adjust. The Pajero is not expected have these features since it known to be old and outdated, but the Endy...doesn't cut it for me at all.


You see Khoj, my issue is the availability of spare parts, especially small spares which has always been the Achilles heel at M&M. I do not know if I should trust a newcomer, Renault on this front. Waiting is no problem though.

Rush, what about the cost of regular spares and other consumables? If they are prohibitively expensive, I mind end up getting a white elephant. Coming to the XUV, like I said, I prefer to choose "when" I want to engage 4WD and "if" I want 4H or 4L, rather than a computer doing it for me.

Hi Doc, What you say is so true however there are exceptions. One of which was the company driver for the Aria mentioned above. Now this guy never even knew what the 4x2 switch was there for and was driving around permanently in 4x4 mode ever since the vehicle was bought sometimes last year. Of course there are no low ratios to be found in the Aria.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

4x4 SUVs are also often known not to have ever gone off-road, even never engaged their 4L.