[Ricky_63]

Thanks for the info 4x4addict :-) The time that he came to see my Pajero he said he was with a software company or some such IT post, hence my question

Cheers

[zulfi hansi]

There is a traffic jam in my head and it all comes and stops at a pre owned T Fort, and then calm prevails and says, wait, you will get what you want, but wait.

[F150]

Originally Posted by zulfi hansi

There is a traffic jam in my head and it all comes and stops at a pre owned T Fort, and then calm prevails and says, wait, you will get what you want, but wait.

Do you have any kms and price in mind ?

I checked TBHP classifieds, and the lowest I could find was 15.5 L and has done 82K kms.

[zulfi hansi]

Originally Posted by F150

Do you have any kms and price in mind ?

I checked TBHP classifieds, and the lowest I could find was 15.5 L and has done 82K kms.

Thank you for showing the concern, appreciate it. First of all you don't get these prices in Bangalore, second T Fort is not actually suitable for me, but is the nearest to my requirements, third still not able to digest its value proposition. But yes, Toyota at 82k is no big deal, my Corolla has done 96K, dads Corolla is at 160k.
What i need is, more compact, 5 seater, with very good highway manners comfortable, efficient diesel (at least 13-14 kms/ltr on highway). Big imposing looks really don't matter to me, it should be agile not cumbersome on a narrow cliff road. The real dilemma is do i need a 4wd, or a AWD will do, primarily due to my inexperience with suv 's, i really don't know to what extent i might push the terrain, my instincts say and i have always pushed every car i had, and i hate to be limited by inability of my machine, so 90% my heart says take a 4WD, but my head argues, do you really need it, like 1% usage.

[khoj]

Renault Koleos, checks all of the boxes per the edited lines below.

Originally Posted by zulfi hansi

What i need is, more compact, 5 seater, with very good highway manners comfortable, efficient diesel (at least 13-14 kms/ltr on highway). Big imposing looks really don't matter to me, it should be agile not cumbersome on a narrow cliff road.

[sh@rpshooter]

Originally Posted by Sheel

If Rexton is a soft roader, then what is XUV?

XUV, is a monocoque, has an AWD (not a 4X4) and GC is no where near that of the Rexton. Rexton would anyday be my choice over the XUV.

Agree completely with you that XUV is the same. I have been looking forward to the Rexton since i heard of it as well. though a bit disappointed now, but no first hand experience. Did you prefer it over the XUV ?

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Seems so, but then, they don't last like the others. Also, the XUV is a crossover without 4H & 4L and hence doesn't fit my requirements. The Rexton, in its AT avatar doesnt have a proper 4WD system and is an AWD.

Tough situation I tell ya...

I just went on a trip to Hampi with a couple of friends- my scorpio, a XUV and an Audi A4. The XUV is pretty fast on the road. i was far behind when on NH4 with my Sub 120 speed but the above two whizzed away almost neck to neck for some time

On the really bad stretch of road, the A4 did lose speed (being new my friend did not want to take it too fast) but the XUV was a revelation.
For later trips the Audi was in the Hotel parking lot and we had some really bad stretches as the bridge had collapsed and hence had some pretty serious off road situations, and the XUV really took them well rather admirably.

But my take away was different, and learning from my friend who has the A4, its better to buy a car one will still want at the end of 3 years now rather than buy one which one will over grow by then

So now i am again seriously contemplating between the X-Trail, Pajero Sport and the Fortuner

the Fortuner is at the bottom of the pyramid as not only is its ride quality marginally better than an XUV (really marginal) it has no wow factor today at least on bangalore roads as every SUV seems to be one (and to make matter worse many are Driver driven ). Although Toyota as a Brand is really its redeeming factor

the X-Trail is supposed to have a makeover in 2014 hence buying the current model seems not a good investment . also it seems the least Value for Money (not that the other two are, but seem better off)

Heart says Pajero, but the OTR of 29 is making this decision very very difficult.
Will do a TD of this over the next 2 weeks.

Cant even think of the Endy/Santa Fe as options as the brand value is poorer.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by zulfi hansi

What i need is, more compact, 5 seater, with very good highway manners comfortable, efficient diesel (at least 13-14 kms/ltr on highway). Big imposing looks really don't matter to me, it should be agile not cumbersome on a narrow cliff road. The real dilemma is do i need a 4wd, or a AWD will do, primarily due to my inexperience with suv 's, i really don't know to what extent i might push the terrain, my instincts say and i have always pushed every car i had, and i hate to be limited by inability of my machine, so 90% my heart says take a 4WD, but my head argues, do you really need it, like 1% usage.

As suggested by khoj, the updated Koleos would be a good contender. But, so is the Yeti. I have spent 35,000+ kms in 14 months with the Yeti & can vouch for it.

Originally Posted by sh@rpshooter

Agree completely with you that XUV is the same. I have been looking forward to the Rexton since i heard of it as well. though a bit disappointed now, but no first hand experience. Did you prefer it over the XUV ?

I think I would prefer it over XUV. The interiors etc are worth the price.

So now i am again seriously contemplating between the X-Trail, Pajero Sport and the Fortuner

the Fortuner is at the bottom of the pyramid as not only is its ride quality marginally better than an XUV (really marginal) it has no wow factor today at least on bangalore roads as every SUV seems to be one (and to make matter worse many are Driver driven ). Although Toyota as a Brand is really its redeeming factor

the X-Trail is supposed to have a makeover in 2014 hence buying the current model seems not a good investment . also it seems the least Value for Money (not that the other two are, but seem better off)

Heart says Pajero, but the OTR of 29 is making this decision very very difficult.
Will do a TD of this over the next 2 weeks.

Cant even think of the Endy/Santa Fe as options as the brand value is poorer.

You want a monocoque or ladder on frame? A proper 4X4 or AWD?

Ford Endevour too would be facelifted & launched sometimes next year & should be a good option.

[sh@rpshooter]

Originally Posted by Sheel

You want a monocoque or ladder on frame? A proper 4X4 or AWD?

Ford Endevour too would be facelifted & launched sometimes next year & should be a good option.

Hey Sheel, I am not a serious offroader and honestly dont have a AWD vs 4X4 preference . Prefer SUVs due to the seating height and feeling of Safety while in it along with teh additional payload. Family too prefers an SUV and more so a 3 row seater since both kids get one row of seats each for sleeping during long trips (at least 2 times a year).

I know the Innova is a natural choice but i dont like it and went with a scorpio over it 7 years back and would do that again at that price range. if the Mitsubishi outlander was available in diesel would have liked that despite its cramped 3rd row.

Regarding the Rexton, if priced the same as an XUV i would definitely consider it, but cannot shake off the "korean car" tag. In fact I first saw it in the Paris car show way back in 2005/6 and remember being impressed although the current look is a bit more sober.

[sh@rpshooter]

As an update , TD'd both the Pajero Sport and the Fortuner

Fortuner
+ve's

• You get a great feeling of power inside/Outside. Very Butch Looking (i did not like the front view much although the Sides/Behind is really great)
• Peppy Engine No Lag
• Very Spacious
• Excellent handling and very responsive
• Cost of Ownership is very Low (Servicing + SPare Parts)
• Good electronics..anything i want is there.

-ves

• Ride Quality.this is where the fortuner really fails . I did get a chance to discuss with a friend on his Fortuner who had to upgrade the suspensions to Tien Advanced as he drives a lot with family and that improves the ride quality really well. but at a 1.45 L cost , around 25 mm loss in clearance and a cost of 7K per 50K Kms for retuning the suspension.The ride is worse in bad roads and not great in Good roads like NICE either :( and felt most in the 2nd Row seat.
• View from Drivers seat- was a bit of a disappointment as the scoop is obvious and need to strain a bit to get a comfortable view. Again could be something to get used to and it appears between a Sedan and an SUV in that aspect
• Disappointed there is no switch option between 4x4 and 4x2. although the full time 4x4 is great and from what i learnt , this is a lot more stable and can easily go much faster than 4x2. ideal for Highway warriors as well
• Braking : I would not call it very bad and not a deal breaker for me.can easily live with
• Interiors: Not great especially for a 30L car- but again not a big issue
• A minor point, the gear stick vibrates only slightly lesser than my 7 year old scorpio- is that a Demo Car issue ?
  

Pajero Sport
+ves

• Great Handling !! I just becomes an extension in 1 min. When i released the clutch the car Leaped forward (used to a Scorpio)
• View from Drivers seat. very very good. Can see bonnet and its edges very well
• Very good ride quality- is rock solid in good and bad roads and on-the-fly 4x4 is a great feature
• Great Interiors
• Looks menacing from the front, sleek from the side and not so great behind. looks smaller than the Fortuner, although still looks powerful
• Excellent Gear transmission and handling
• Fantastic Brakes : Rock solid and gives great confidence
• seat configurations and very thoughtful arrangement of Tool Set. 12V socket in the 3rd row too !
  

-ves

• MItsu Future + no of service centers this is what i am the most worried. having been trying to fnd out more around it.
• Cost of Ownership (service + parts). from what i could understand not as bad as it is made out to be.
• there is a Turbo lag in low speed, but can be overcome especially as gear changing is amazingly comfortable. So it could be a matter of getting used to.Not as bad as i expected after reading reviews
• 3rd row is expectedly bad wrt underthigh but surprisingly comfortable for short distances
• Noise levels : engine noise is high (cant remember if higher than the fortuner) but overall adequate

In Summary
In sheer driving Pajero Sport >> Toyota Fortuner stock
In sheer economics Toyota Fortuner >> Pajero Sport (including resale value)

After I factor in the 1.5L for Tiens + any Braking upgrade the net cost of the Fortuner (4x4) is only slightly higher than the Pajero over 5 years (both give 3 year warranty). but moment you factor in resale value, the Fortuner is significantly higher. The 4x2 is definitely cheaper..but its ride quality is worse and at this price level, IMHO need to have 4x4 options even if it is only for 2% of usage
Although the Tiens mean a separate entity to go to for serving etc and suspension will not be managed by Toyota A.S.S..and a risk around how long they (TIENS) continue in India

I did get a chance to speak to someone connected to Toyota and as per them they do know about the issues around Suspension but they dont intend to do anything about it as today they as selling anything they manufacture. And other than a 4x4AT, no changes going to come up over the next few years.
I am exceptionally worried as a much younger friend is having back problems due to the fortuner seat (No Lumbar)+suspension .

Over last 2 weeks have spoken to several owners and ex owners of Mitsubishi vehicles and heard different versions around spare part costs and A.S.S . What I could conclude is that on an average upto 5-7 years there is almost no spare part issue of a significant nature, although there is a probability associated to it
The paid service charges vary from 8-1k per service per and SVR is not really as abad as i initially heard. There are SFX and outlander owners who are still happy with this and there are other who are not -like Any other dealership except Skoda .

While equal % of people are happy with the Fortuner service quality ( !!) the cost of servicing is about 3K - 7 K ie half ! and that makes folks very happy. Again very robust parts and usually no failures.

So stuck here and taking my time over deciding.

The following were discarded
1. XUV- great value for Money but feel worried about the HU being the brain of the vehicle in some way, Also dont like the Looks much.Finally will I be equally happy owning it 3 years from now ?
2. X-Trail- no +2 Seating options and looks really dated. also they did not bother to come for a TD !. New Version supposed to come this year sometime
3. Ford Endeavour. Too dated + Leaf Spring suspension. Again new version expected
4. Captiva: Great alternate option. Too expensive and depreciates very fast. i believe the AT option is a great 2nd Hand option.
5. Santa Fe. new version expected this year and supposed to be very good. But Trident Hyundai not interested in selling it appears !

[dean5545]

[quote="sh@rpshooter;3342264"]I am exceptionally worried as a much younger friend is having back problems due to the fortuner seat (No Lumbar)+suspension . /QUOTE]
I am bit curious to know about it. The ride is not that bad.

About the gear lever vibration.
That's a standard feature of the Fortuner(hand massager). The root cause of these vibrations is the extra length of the gear lever. I absolutely love the gear lever though but the vibrations spoil the fun not much though.

[sh@rpshooter]

Originally Posted by dean5545

I am bit curious to know about it. The ride is not that bad.

I guess this is a personal feeling. I did discuss with someone associated with Toyota as well who agreed suspension is an issue and who himself has moved to TIENS advance. Personally would prefer it to be softer.

BTW while on you tube i was on a review (South African) who said the fortuner will improve if the wheel size is dropped to 16 and we increase the height of the suspension.

Although in the end this is what makes it a great offroader in the first place.

Originally Posted by dean5545

About the gear lever vibration.
That's a standard feature of the Fortuner(hand massager)....

agree . This is not the deal maker kind of issue but more in the category of "Nice to have"

[sh@rpshooter]

i have been literally gorging on reviews these days and the above is something mentioned in couple of reviews
Without taking away anything from its rather formidable strengths, am quoting from Motorbeam. in the end it is an SUV and not a sedan and hence focus will not be as much on ride quality anyway !

The Toyota Fortuner doesn’t excel in the ride quality department either, with low speed ride being quite stiff, resulting in a choppy ride under 40 km/hr. As speeds build up, the Fortuner does feel better over bad roads and absorbs them without transferring much to the occupants. It also feels more settled on the road as you go faster. High speed stability is decent although you never feel glued to the ground due to the top heavy nature. Many had complained about poor brakes on the old Fortuner and Toyota had updated the brakes of the SUV in 2010. The new version has good stopping power with good pedal bite, resulting in quick and smooth deceleration.

------------
also
What’s Cool
* SUV appeal
* Toyota quality
* Commanding driver view
What’s Not So Cool
* Stiff ride quality at low speeds

Read more at http://www.motorbeam.com/cars/toyota...VmVdGk6bfuB.99

[roadjourno]

Originally Posted by sh@rpshooter

i have been literally gorging on reviews these days and the above is something mentioned in couple of reviews
Without taking away anything from its rather formidable strengths, am quoting from Motorbeam. in the end it is an SUV and not a sedan and hence focus will not be as much on ride quality anyway !

So what did you decide on ?
Mine is already exceeding the expectations from what appeared on the face value of buying and owning a new fortuner.

[sh@rpshooter]

Originally Posted by roadjourno

So what did you decide on ?
Mine is already exceeding the expectations from what appeared on the face value of buying and owning a new fortuner.

TD'ed both again and went with the Heart - booked a pajero sport . I am a lot more comfortable driving it and really feel more in tune with it, and my wife/In laws also felt a lot more comfortable in it.

I know the fortuner would have been more practical/economical although it would be at the expense of comfort. Also there is a uniqueness about the pajero sport as every time I was test driving it, people would really give it a look .

Of course only the future would tell about the correctness of the decision.

BTW I believe the new Santa Fe is getting launched in April and it could have an impact in this class as from the looks it has more presence and grunt than the current avatar.

[Sheel]

Out of curiosity, did you test drive the Rexton? I believe RX-5 comes equipped with a 4H, 4L option.

No, I am not recommending it over the Pajero Sport

But please do share pictures once you get yours. What is the status, which color did you book?