[navpreet318]

But Jay, after selecting the 4wd high, the Pajero can also go that much further and maybe more, or am I missing something. Would there be a difference between the 4wd High ratio and a fulltime 4wd?

Only comparing the 4wd ratios and not the standard 2wd on the pajero. I think the Pajero can be run on 4wd in any of the conditions as well.

[Behemoth]

Actually if all things are equal an Suv with 2wd drive mode instead of all time 4wd should be around 5% more fuel efficient. But in this case as they are very different Suvs only real world experience will prove any benefit on this aspect.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

technically speaking there is one huge primary difference -
Fortuner = fulltime 4wd
Pajero Sport = part time 4wd

Originally Posted by navpreet318

Only comparing the 4wd ratios and not the standard 2wd on the pajero. I think the Pajero can be run on 4wd in any of the conditions as well.

Jay, Pajero also has a center differential and you can always keep it in Full Time/Permanent 4WD just like the Fortuner. It gives you the option to go to 2WD when required to benefit from sligthly better mileage and less wear and tear of 4WD components. But if one wants, they can run it's entire life in 4H.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Tommie

In summary, the driving of a Pajero Sport like a MM540 whereas the Fortuner felt more like the Innova. Hence, unless you are a serious off-roader do not think about Pajero Sport.

My opinion, on the contrary, is completely the opposite of what you felt.

The Fortuner is too bumpy, has too many hard plastics and bad brakes when compared to the Pajero Sport.
Further, the full time 4WD in the Fortuner is meant for terrains where it needs to be in 4H most of the time. The Sport, on the other hand can be driven in 2WD or 4WD mode resulting in lesser wear and tear and better fuel economy.

In fact, the Pajero Sport feels far more car like than the Fortuner on all aspects.

[navpreet318]

I agree with Devdath regarding the driving experience of the Pajero. I did a TD of over an hour. Took it to the Pune-Mum expressway and then offroad into a rock quary type place as well.

The Pajero is completely planted onto the road. Drove at a constant pace of speeds at the higher end of its capabilities and changed lanes and took the long sweeping turns. It remained glued to the road better than my civic! And that is a statement because I know my civic and its capabilities having driven it from north to south of our country more than a couple of times.

Off the road the suspension gave huge confidence to abuse it majorly. Not a single squeak even after high speed driving over non existent offroad section.

Way better overall than the Fortuner!

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Jay, Pajero also has a center differential and you can always keep it in Full Time/Permanent 4WD just like the Fortuner. It gives you the option to go to 2WD when required to benefit from sligthly better mileage and less wear and tear of 4WD components. But if one wants, they can run it's entire life in 4H.

Are you sure of this? Can it run in 4wd fulltime with central diff unlocked?
I believe the top speed on 4H is 120 kmph for a selective 4H box like the Pajero sports. Can someone please check and confirm this. I may be wrong.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Further, the full time 4WD in the Fortuner is meant for terrains where it needs to be in 4H most of the time. The Sport, on the other hand can be driven in 2WD or 4WD mode resulting in lesser wear and tear and better fuel economy.

A full-time 4wd has benefits not just off road but on road too. It comes into its own especially on roads where you lose traction, wet roads for example, and allows better control. 4 driven wheels are always better than 2. Audi qattro for example.
Regarding fuel economy, if one can afford to spend 27-28 lakhs for a vehicle, i dont think fuel economy should be a concern with regards to affordability.

[Parm]

We walk into a showroom, just once to buy a brand new vehicle.
But we visit the A.S.S. frequently to get the vehicle serviced.

Please do make a comparison of the dealer network, availability of the spare parts, customer service and of course the cost of maintenance of the vehicle.

Toyota has a bullet proof quality where as MMC has been dumping old and out dated products into India for a long time.

MMC has shut shop in north America and will shut shop in Europe by next year.

Even outside India, MMC has little presence compared to the Toyota.

Its a mind of heart or hear over mind choice for yourself, Choose wisely and live wisely.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Are you sure of this? Can it run in 4wd fulltime with central diff unlocked?

Yes Jay. The Super Select system can essentially driven in Full Time 4WD mode with Center diff unlocked. There are two variants of the SS4 System. SS4 -I gives 50/50 front rear traction in Full time 4WD mode. The SS4 -II found in the Montero gives 33/67 front rear split to give it a more sporty RWD handling and aid with traction and turning at the same time.

See the following link:
"Four driving modes give you complete driving freedom: economical 2WD, full-time 4WD allowing you to drive in 4WD on any surface"
http://mmnz.co.nz/challenger/ride-and-handling/

"Full-time 4WD handles a wide variety of roads, from normal to icy."
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/en/...brary/4wd.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post3190385

You need to be below 100 kmph to shift in out from 2H to 4H and back.

[4x4addict]

Also wanted to add that all Full Time 4WD Systems (That turn all 4 wheels permanently) need to allow slippage in the center differential otherwise you are going to damage the system when driving on winding roads where the front diff will turn at a different cycle to rear diff.

The Toyota Center diff unit uses a Torsen LSD which is a gear based system. But in the Toyota, you do not have the option to disengage 4H.

In Pajero Super Select System, they use a clutch pack based Vicious Coupling system. Pajero Sport allows you to disengage 4H and drive in 2H.

Generally gear based Limited slips are more efficient due to two reasons. Once is that with gears there is less/no power loss compared to a clutch pack. With a clutch pack there will always be some frictional loss of power. Secondly as the clutch pack wears out the efficiency of the system decreases slowly and it cannot be easily diagnosed/known when being used normally on or off road. It is only when the clutch pack wears out completely that you find that your 4WD is not working. Since the Pajero Sport uses a Viscous coupling clutch pack based center diff, it is best to allow the vehicle to run normally in 2H to reduce wear and tear of the clutch pack engaging and disengaging. This problem doesn't exist in the Toyota unit and the vehicle can run it's life in Full Time 4WD. Gear Cogs don't wear out like a friction plate.

The similar technology applies to Limited Slip differentials also. For example the OEM Eaton Limited slip that comes in the stock Army 550 rear axle uses a clutch pack based system. Over time the friction plate wears out and the effectiveness of the LSD declines to the point were it is fully worn out and you have to change the friction plates.

The Auburn gear LSD that I have in my 550 uses a gears instead of friction plates and gears are engaged/disengaged by a spring loaded mechanism. These gears will generally last the life of the vehicle.

More information on the Torsen unit used by Toyota can be found here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsen

YOu can see the difference with the Viscous Coupling Type used here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscous_coupling_unit

[HappyWheels]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Are you sure of this? Can it run in 4wd fulltime with central diff unlocked?
I believe the top speed on 4H is 120 kmph for a selective 4H box like the Pajero sports. Can someone please check and confirm this. I may be wrong...

Jay,

It can be run full time in AWD mode (4H with central diff open; the option with central diff closed is 4HLc which should not be used on hard surfaces).

And, speed is not a constraint in this mode.

The only speed constraint related to this mode is that you need to keep the vehicle below 100kmph when moving out or in to this mode from 2H.

EDIT: I prefer to drive with AWD mostly, especially when I drive above 120kmph on the highways and when the occasional rain falls. In stop and go traffic, I switch to 2WD since the pickup is better in this mode.

[sh@rpshooter]

Does anyone have a view on how Mitsubishi is going to go over the next few years in India ?
Having had a Daewoo debacle many years ago am not very sure of getting hit again by the parent company closing shop in the country !

I am all for the Pajero except for this above worry (although the Pajero owner i know is a long term Mitsubishi owner and very happy with the A.S.S. in Bangalore)

[asinghal]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Yes Jay. The Super Select system can essentially driven in Full Time 4WD mode with Center diff unlocked. There are two variants of the SS4 System. SS4 -I gives 50/50 front rear traction in Full time 4WD mode. The SS4 -II found in the Montero gives 33/67 front rear split to give it a more sporty RWD handling and aid with traction and turning at the same time.


You need to be below 100 kmph to shift in out from 2H to 4H and back.

Is there an upper limit on driving on 4H mode in Pajero sport? Can you drive on highways at around 120 kmph? The recommended limit for changing to 2H (or 4H) is 100 kmph.

[NST440]

IMHO its too many variables which make me lean towards the T Fort, the country being one prime reason where Toyoyta has a strong and promising base, wide coverage, acceptability, spares and service etc etc. Pajero is reliable product minus the strange policies of Mitsu and Lancer is a classic example of how they ruined a otherwise good vehicle by delaying its updates and finally taking it off from the market.

I would love to see a spanking new pajero on the road, but would i want to be the one who owns it, naah, the confidence of T Fort is what the buyer would like to have.

[mayankjha1806]

Took a look at the TFort and the Pajero Sport as i am back in car buying business again. In the last 3 years since i last looked around not much has changed on the TFort (Which is seriously sad). On the other had Pajero sport looks gorgeous in black, on the spec and presence on the road. Has all the gizmos and most importantly all four discs, and better suspensions.

The question i have is, what is the relationship between Mitsu and HM. Is the marriage over? If yes then is Mitsu going all alone in India now? In all probability for next two to four years the low network spread will not bother me much, but thereafter it would possibly be a problem.

Does it look like in next 2-4 years Mitsu will have much wider presence (Not comparable to Toyota but no so thin either?

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by mayankjha1806

Took a look at the TFort and the Pajero Sport as i am back in car buying business again. In the last 3 years since i last looked around not much has changed on the TFort (Which is seriously sad).

That is not entirely correct. The Fortuner has also seen considerable changes since its launch with newer refreshed variants and engine and transmission options being added. It has also gained in the equipment level since its launch. The latest model also gives you an option of an all black interior. The only sad part is that with these changes, the prices have changed even more dramatically.