[desertfox]

The best vehicle in this 20 to 25 lakhs bracjet would be a two year old Montero if you can find one or a two year old Prado. It will outperform all these pjeros and fortuners and Rexton, god! Does anyone actually want to waste his money on this Daewoo Rexton of Saudi Arabia or Sssangyong Muso of Dubai ?

[vinay_ss]

I seem to have finally got my mind around buying an SUV, with the launch of the Pajero Sports AT, being an immediate trigger. I have always driven Fiats in the past (i currently drive the Tjet+ and Punto 90 bhp). With 2 growing up boys (13 and 9 years), and my love for long road trips, this is getting more and more difficult. Hence, an upgrade from a Sedan has been on my mind for a while.

My starting trouble stems from the fact that there seem to be no SUV's /MUV's in the 18 to 25L bracket, other than the Endeavour and Rexton (If i am right). I considered both Innova and Aria and they were both discarded by my wife and the kids (Who now have a say!). The Endeavour, Rexton and Fortuner did not find favour as well (Variety of combinations like dated design and suspensions, looks and brand). Finally i was left with no option than to look beyond. By now i have already stretched my budget completely and anything beyond this is going to really start creating a significant financial impact.

To cut a long story short, my needs are -

a) 2 rows at the rear (so that i have an option for folding up for luggage or letting be for the kids to sleep). At worse, i could get a roof rack as well, if i find that kids need 2 rows on long trips and luggage space is of concern

b) Ideally AT, since i would also be using this as a primary city car for office commute

c)I do not do /nor intend to do any serious off roading. However, i do understand that for a large SUV with good road manners and power, a 4*4 would really make sense, even without the offroading part, considering the higher road grip that an all wheel drive offers (Am i right here, in making this assumption ?) If given a choice, its always comforting to know that the vehicle is 4*4, considering the size and the outdoor and adventurous excitement that sometimes gets thrown at you. However, i am never going to do some river wading etc.

d) I am not too inclined on a lot of creature comforts (For instance whatever is offered in the Pajero Sports, would be ideal for me, by way of features). However, i do want to feel safe and cocooned.

e) Minimal body roll (i acknowledge some of it would remain in any SUV), very good steering feedback. I always drive my cars, and hence i would really prefer the SUV to provide superlative driving experience.

f) This would be a very long term car (hopefully 8-10 years)

With all of the above, i thought the PS makes a lot of sense, considering the pedigree as well. Now comes the bummer - Mitsubishi have launched the AT only in the 2*4 version.

Given that the price of both the versions on road is the same (Approx 28 lacs in Chennai with bumper to bumper insurance), what should the best buy be - considering my above needs ?

A) 4*4 Manual transmission or
B) 2*4 AT

[coloneljasi]

My two cents? Since you already have your heart set on the Pajero Sport, buy the 4X2 AT. A friend of mine has a 4X4 manual and it's an absolute pain to drive in the city. The vehicle feels strained in the city and the throw of the gear lever is too old school.

Yes, it's always good to know that the 4X4 system is there, should you ever need it. And honestly, if there were a 4X4 AT to be had in India, I would have recommended that. But since they'd sell it in that combo and you need it for commuting, an AT makes more sense. The Pajero Sport is a capable off-roader, even with just 4X2.

Have you tried out both variants? A real-world test drive of sorts; in the traffic conditions that you'd encounter on your commute with a highway/off-road run thrown in. Once you've done that, prioritize and the decision will be much easier to make. You might have already done the above, if so, do excuse me for being presumptuous.

Good luck!

[D4D]

If it's only these two cars, then my pick is the 4x2 AT. Simply for the convenience it offers.

Originally Posted by vinay_ss

My starting trouble stems from the fact that there seem to be no SUV's in the 18 to 25L bracket

Look slightly below 18 lakh, and there's the XUV 500 waiting for you.
Sure it doesn't have the brand value of the others mentioned here, but it's a fantastic car, especially considering the amount you save buying it.

XUV 500 W8 AWD should be in your list and it sells at 17 lakh INR in bangalore.

You don't seem to want a full time 7 seater, but a big boot seems a must. Sure, the XUV provides that.

b) Ideally AT, since i would also be using this as a primary city car for office commute

XUV 500 AT is coming in a few months(not sure about AWD+AT combination). But Pajero must be a good buy.

c)I do not do /nor intend to do any serious off roading.

For that little driving in sand and slush, I think the XUV 500 AWD will do fine.

i do want to feel safe and cocooned.

From the official review of XUV 500:

Safety kit includes 6 airbags, ESP with rollover mitigation, ABS + EBD and all-wheel disc brakes

e) Minimal body roll

Will be very less in a monocoque construction.

f) This would be a very long term car (hopefully 8-10 years)

That's the only downside of buying the Pajero sport.

Mitsubishi have launched the AT only in the 2*4 version.

The demand for 4x4 AT is very less in a country like ours. People who really want 4x4 are satisfied with the manual, 2WD AT is for the convenience seekers.

How many people take these expensive 4x4's for serious off-roading?

Alternately, consider the ISUZU MU-7. I've not read a single review about it, but do check it out in the showroom.

[.anshuman]

Did you try out the Hyundai Santa Fe?

For your usage which primarily be road usage, i'd suggest a Monocoque Crossover over Ladder Frame Chassis based SUV for the following reasons-

1. Superior Road Dynamics that includes far more forgiving Handling(almost car like), better high speed composure and better sorted and settled ride. The chassis based vehicles running solid axles are rear can never feel car like no matter how well tuned the suspension is? Even the crore(almost, on road) rupee Toyota Prado cannot Ride/Handle as well as a Honda CRV/Hyundai Santa Fe or even a Desi XUV-500.
   
2. Less weight owing to better Fuel efficiency, lesser wear and tear with better dynamics.
   
3. Better Safety due to better crash absorbance, and in general availability of better safety kit including Multiple Airbags, ESP, Roll over Mitigation etc.
   
4. Better utilization of Horsepower, same number of horses in a lighter body with gear ratios tuned for on road usage make them more fun.
   
5. More comfortable seating with lower floor, no knees up seating.

However, if you love to go off the road or you want to frequently abuse your vehicle on no road, the old school trucks (read chassis based vehicle make more sense). I'd pick trucks for-

1. Simpler construction, tried tested hardware and lesser electronics make them easier and cheaper to maintain. The long term life is superior than crossovers.
   
2. Better for off roading with proper 4x4 hardware and solid axle atleast at rear axle. More rugged hardware makes it more suitable for frequent abuse.

[sh@rpshooter]

I would agree with coloneljasi. The MT in the city is not very easy initially as it needs a driving habit change but once you get used to it its better although still a minor niggle ..the AT is better. But in that case I would feel an innova is a better option. Splurge a little bit more on additional tyres/suspension and even customised seats.

For me the 4x4 on the PS makes the real difference in long trips. Driving in the rain or bad and broken roads is a completely different experience on a PS and the ability to switch to it on the fly is a fantastic option.
I woild believe the innova and the PS are the only vehicles sub 30L which has a remotely comfortable 3rd row for long distance.

[vinay_ss]

Thanks to all the feedback and responses.

I am not considering the XUV 500 based on the various reviews (on driveability as well as inconsistent interiors etc). Santa Fe is out of question, since it is way to expensive (34 L in Chennai on road). Although the poll seems to suggest that MT is the way to go, a long test drive yesterday ended up being very disappointing. There was a huge amount of vibration that i could feel on the gear stick, lot of noise creeping into the cabin, hard clutch and just a 30 min drive in Chennai traffic left me fatigued. The saving grace was the 4*4 pleasure i got on the beach for about 10 min which made me really think if i wanted to give up on the 4*4.

I took the test drive of the AT again today and its such a huge difference and so much more driveable in the city. Not sure if it is psychological, but i also didn't feel the engine sound creeping into the cabin. Finally, i have made up my mind that for my kind of usage - largely city and highway runs, i would stick to the AT. The paddle shifts really impressed me as well. Some other take aways after the test drive (my personal views which may not be as professional as some of the folks here)

a) seats are pretty hard and i felt the middle row could have had a better support
b) Mid and rear rows are slightly bumpy, but not serious enough to drive me away from the car
c) The touch screen entertainment system didnt impress me in terms of the quality of screen. The speakers sound pretty average
d)Front legroom is awesome
e)My kids loved the last row and the middle row (the primary purpose for which i am going in for a 7 seater as against the sedan i currently drive). They decided that they make good beds and would be really enjoyable on long highway drives
f) At cruising speed, engine sound doesnt creep into the cabin and it is pretty silent, for a diesel engine.
g) The MID was showing an average of 15 kms /liter (it had run about 120 kms)
h) Couldn't make out too much of body roll, but it was mainly city driving and about 7-8 kms on the clean stretches of ECR
i) Suspension set up seems stiff (if i understand this properly) owing to which the car feels a bit bouncy, specially on the 2nd and 3rd rows. Again, this was not enough to push me away
j) The driver took me through some fairly narrow lanes, but he made it seem very easy !
k) The fit and finish and feel was just superb. It feels such a well built and well engineered car. I would be proud to own something like this

One question that i had, which was not answered properly was about the expenses on the normal service (which has a rather short interval of 6 months /10k kms). He told me that labour cost is 13k and i literally fell of my chair ! Can it really be so expensive vis-a-vis other similar SUV's ? Any views /information on this would be very very useful

Maya Motors is not giving me any discounts on the car price itself. But is offering some "pajero" accessories which look downright cheap and shiny after market accessories. The only part i really loved is the movie screens that was hooked up to the rear of the front seats (he quoted 40k for a pair).

After some haggling, he has agreed to waive off the handling charges of 15k, pass on the bank subvention of 33k. However, he is adamant that i should go in for the bumper to bumper insurance with them costing approx Rs 96k, as against a similar HDFC insurance that i am getting for 70k. I am rechecking on the insured value of both and would then take a call.

I have almost decided my mind to go ahead. Any views on the above would be much appreciated.

[D4D]

Looks like driving the MT in congested traffic made you incline towards the AT. Yes, I think it's a more practical choice, especially given that most of your driving will in the city. And why would you trade the 4x4 (which will be hardly used) for a lot of convenience.

For me 4x4 is not really necessary as:

1. You won't go OTR like the guys who have gypsies and jeeps. These trails are often narrow and getting stuck is easy. And yes, the though those large bills of broken parts will prevent you from taking such an expensive SUV off road.

2. Most Tourist places where 4x4 are required have jeeps for hire. Eg. Rameshwaram-Dhanushkodi. How else have many people been travelling to these places?

[drmohitg]

@Vinay SS: We have discussed this previously on the forum too but I wanted to really appeal to you here since you have mentioned about making your kids sleep in the rear seats. It is a potential death trap. Please do not indulge in such practices as it can turn out pretty dangerous. With all the safety discussions going on elsewhere in the forum, I felt its apt to highlight this here.
Sorry for the off topic post.

[vinay_ss]

D4D - absolutely right. For my usage i think a AT would serve me better (although the vote seems to be in favour of the MT).

Drmohitg - thanks a ton for reminding. These thoughts cross my mind, but i didnt realise it can be as bad as a death trap. I guess you are right, at relatively high speeds on highways, you can get thrown in front, considering the "sleeping" position would not enable seat belt protection.

On a separate note, would any of you be able to provide me a sense of service costs for the PS as well as some of the basic "run and maintain" spares ? I hear that for the PS, brake pads needs replacement every 10k kms and costs around 8k.

[sh@rpshooter]

Just my 2 cents.. the regular 4x4 is not for offroading only. The difference it makes in rough road sections as well as rainy roads is really significant. .something which I usenonly10 % but it's totally worth it

[shankar.balan]

Santa Fe is certainly worth a look as is the Rexton.
Both excellent vehicles, well kitted out and well priced too.

Toyota Fortuner is uncomfortable in the middle rows and their bare bones basic kit out for such a price makes me feel very badly used indeed.

I would not go the Mitsubishi way because of servicing and spares issues.

[Tornado]

This thread has a great scope and future.

But most seems to be silent now.I was looking for buying an Aria then moved to XUV then thought of used ones including the Fortuner. I also looked at Rexton at the M&M showroom and i was impressed by it's interiors.

But reliability and future resale value etc kept me bit away from it.Anyhow now I am considering a used Fortuner. It is a hit and if at all I happen to dislike its ride then finding a buyer will not be difficult

My past experience with Innova was good and experience with GM was bad. So here comes the importance of reliability and quality of After sales support when you have to put in your hard earned money. Endevour was bit bulky for my taste. Not sure how it drives in high way and city. anyway these days i drive mostly in Kerala - NH 49 - kochin - Munnar route.

Originally Posted by vikram31

Hi guys, I am, like a lot others in a similar frame of mind. Though still to do any TDs yet, I am also shortlisting Ford Endeavour AT. Didnt see it mentioned across pages? Any specific reason its not being compared to RX7/Fortuner?

[n.devdath]

Congratulations on your choice and here are a few pointers that might help.

Originally Posted by vinay_ss

Maya Motors is not giving me any discounts on the car price itself. But is offering some "pajero" accessories which look downright cheap and shiny after market accessories. The only part i really loved is the movie screens that was hooked up to the rear of the front seats (he quoted 40k for a pair).

1. Discounts on the AT are indeed minimal but I would still recommend you get a quote from both the dealers at Chennai (Maya & Sairam) and the Bangalore dealer as well (since your location says Bangalore) and then begin haggling.

Originally Posted by vinay_ss

However, he is adamant that i should go in for the bumper to bumper insurance with them costing approx Rs 96k, as against a similar HDFC insurance that i am getting for 70k. I am rechecking on the insured value of both and would then take a call.

2. Insurance from outside is always cheaper than taking it from the dealer but there are quite a few hidden clauses so be careful of what you choose. I would recommend a good zero dep policy for the first three years of ownership. I am a Future Generali customer and a happy one at that.

Originally Posted by vinay_ss

He told me that labour cost is 13k and i literally fell of my chair ! Can it really be so expensive vis-a-vis other similar SUV's ? Any views /information on this would be very very useful

3. None of my services (I have had 4 so far) have costed me more than 12k INR including oil changes with normal mineral oil and hence 13k in labor charges is nonsense. Don't worry on that part.

[vinay_ss]

Sh@rphooter, i agree with you and thought about this. It may look like an issue of safety vs convenience. I have always driven sedans (Tjet is my current one), and i am really struggling with answers to the question of whether an AT SUV makes so much of a difference in terms of traction and safety, that it overrides the convenience of a MT. I have asked for another test drive of the MT version to see if my earlier experience with the clutch as well as the vibrations on the gear stick is really as bad or its only the psychological part of me playing.

Santa Fe looks really well kitted and i know that the monocoque behaves really well vis-a-vis the ladder on frame. Like Anshuman mentioned, from a longevity perspective (I want to hold this one for atleast 7-8 years), the build quality of the Pajero feels far better. For me personally as well, its also about the Pajero brand (Purely my personal preference).

Again as mentioned in a number of earlier forums, service support to a large extent also depends on dealer to dealer (including the comfort and relationship that one can build with the service advisors/engineers/technicians) and i am placing my bet on this. For the record, i have always had tremendous support from Fiat for all my Fiats - and i have owned pretty much all the models they had in India - over the last 12 years. As long as Mitsubishi does not exit from India, i am willing to take the leap of faith.

Devdath, i have spoken to Royal Sundaram and they have quoted a bumper to bumper which is about 40% lower than dealer's insurance quote. And indeed it is gratifying to note your experience with the service in terms of costs.

Another question that i am hoping this forum would help me address is whether 2X2 would at the least, offer some light offroading or the 2.5 ton weight of the Pajero would override any light slush /wet gravel conditions. An easy example that comes to my mind is driving on Ladakhi stretches (roads or otherwise) in April. Some of my reading on other blogs/international sites suggests that such cars can do it, provided driven properly. A first hand experience of folks on this forum would be comforting as well.

I would take a final call on the AT vs MT after a final back to back test drive on Wednesday. Its a huge price i am paying and getting into this league of cars and i am really hoping i would make the right choice. I just hope it doesn't come down to a question of safety vs convenience and remains a question of a mixed driving convenience vs hard core offroading capability

But thanks to all of you who have given varied but valuable views to my posts.