[an_and]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

If a car has 7 seats, it would be called a 7-seater. What else can it be called? A 5-seater? I do not find fault with Honda.

And, oh yes, speaking of 7-seaters, I do not find any proper 7-seaters in India as of now. I once travelled from Delhi to Jaipur in an Innova, the so-called champion of MUVs, and being in a group, I was forced to the last row to make way for women and senior citizens up front. The 3-hour cramped-for-space ride spoiled all the fun. I was sitting in contorted position and my knees were at 30 degrees from straight either to right or left. And I'm only 5'7". It was the worst ride of my life and 3 hours later, I got down with cramped legs and sore bums from all that shifting. I cursed myself why did I not hire a Tata Winger. I vowed never to take last seat on any of these 7-seatres. So much for a proper 7-seater. So, I would say there is none. Neither Innova nor Xylo. May be Evalia would be better but I never rode in one.

Originally Posted by pgsagar

You find Innova to be a proper 7-seater? Well, what can I say? I do not at all find Innova's last row aceptable and just see 3 posts after my post who agreed with me. May be you are very slightly built and can fit in there. I, at even a short height of 5'7" and slim-built, cannot. So, just as you are entitled to call Mobilio not a 7-seater, I am entitled to call Innova not a proper 7-seater. I hope that clears.

I am 5'11 and I once had to travel for almost two days in the backseat of an innova across tamil Nadu, and that is when I decided to buy an Innova. And I am not that slimly built either. However, the innova offered me amazing comfort, especially if you recline the rear seat and get the headrest up.

Recently my cousins showed up and we travelled to Shirdi, and the third row was fully occupied, with three adults. T'was a little cramped, however no one complained, and the trip to Shirdi to and fro was done in a day, so I would have heard complaints if there were.

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

To be a bit blunt I think you guys have not used the Innova much and hence got the seat setting all wrong. If you do not slide back the seat backrest, pull up the headrest and slide the middle row forward, the last row can be difficult. But it transforms if you do all this, w/o any pain for the middle row.



Innova always has a bit of a firm ride, whether middle row or last row but frankly not much to choose between the two. The ride improves with speed. But I personally find the last row of Fortuner almost on the floor and bit difficult to manage. Are you saying the Fortuner - known for bouncy/unsettled ride has with an "on the floor" last row is better in terms of posture / ride comfort compared to Innova?




I agree with Vid6639 and damager21. I own an Innova (Vx-8 seater with bench in the middle row) and have done 84k joy filled kms with it. In fact one of the triggers for buying an Innova was the comfortable 2 hours I spent in the last row in an Avis Innova Taxi in bangalore in 2007.

. In most of the Innova models, the middle row slides. If you want to stetch your legs completely you will get 2-3 feet+ of legroom in the middle row, the last row would not like it.

However, if you are ok with a c segment sedan kind of space and slide up the middle row, the last row actually has very decent space. So decent that I have done 400+ kms on a stretch in it (I am 6 feet / 81 kgs so very slightly larger than avg indian) . The key is to slide the middle row forward, pull up the LARGE headrests, pushback the backrest and you have enought space to fit people who are upto 6"2 or so IMHO.

Not cramped by any standards.

I thumbs up

Originally Posted by satya180

As an owner of a 2011 Toyota Innova (done 35,000 kms) and a 2012 Maruti Suzuki Ertiga (done 90,000 kms), I have a few points to share :

Basic Comparison:
The Innova and the Ertiga cannot be compared as they are not in the same size or price segment. (~10L for the Ertiga vs ~14L for the Innova). The Innova has a much larger 2.5L engine compared to the 1.3L in the Ertiga. It is also almost a foot longer than the Ertiga.

Note: For the following comparison, I have considered adults to be of medium-large build, ~80-90 kg and ~5'10" height.

Middle Row
Innova: The middle row of the Innova is good for 3 adults in good comfort. If you have the captain seats version, 2 adults can travel in supreme comfort. Sliding middle row provides massive legroom if need be. Also, sliding the front seat all the way to the front, removing the headrest and reclining it back all the way makes for an extremely comfortable bed. No beating the Innova here.
Ertiga: If the same 3 adults were to travel in the Ertiga, it would be a very tight fit. The Ertiga 2nd row is best suited for 2 adults only. Thigh support in the Ertiga is not as good as the Innova. Sliding and reclining 2nd row in the Ertiga makes things better, only just.

Third Row
Innova: The reclining 3rd row of the Innova would seat the 2 of the same adults in comfort without any issues regarding thigh support, legroom or shoulder room. Infact, the third row in the Innova is very close to the middle row of the Innova in terms of comfort. Yes it does get a little bouncy over serious bumps, but nowhere close to 'uncomfortable'.
Ertiga: The third row of the Ertiga is not suited for adults. There is no legroom (unless you slide your middle row a long way forward), no shoulder space and under thigh support is absent. Also, the seat is low and the floor is high, making you sit in a really uncomfortable position. The third row is best suited for small kids as it can get really uncomfortable over even short distances.

Then why the Innova AND the Ertiga?
Simple, they are two entirely different cars.
The Innova was bought as a comfortable 'family' car. A car which we mostly use only on trips or for airport runs. The comfort offered by the Innova is leagues ahead than that on offer by the Ertiga. This is where the Innova justifies its price tag, and also makes it a premium offering from a segment above the Ertiga.
The Ertiga was bought as a sedan alternative. It was bought as an upgrade to the 1,30,000 km run Dzire. It was bought to ferry my mom to and fro from her factory, 90 kms everyday over highway and bad roads. My mom wanted a car with a comfortable rear bench(chaffeur driven) , slightly higher seating, good fuel efficiency, decent ground clearance and hassle free AfterSalesService. Having owned over 7 Maruti Suzuki cars in the past, it was literally a no-brainer when the Ertiga was launched. It had to be it.

Another 6 months down the line, we will be looking to replace the Ertiga. The Mobilio RS is the strongest contender as of now. If it has a decent cabin and a good rear seat, it will be the Mobilio for us, irrespective of it being a *True* seven seater or not.

I agree... I used to hate innovas before I was actually forced into one, the only sore point is that the mileage is really pathetic , hardly if ever reaches 13...

[Fx14]

Apparently some of the UVs from Tata do not form part if this thread viz. Sumo / Grande / Movus / Venture. From a perspective of space, these do offer adequate legroom.

Of the UVs discussed in this thread, the Xylo does feel pretty comfortable. In exigencies, for very short distances, have observed that it is possible to even carry 10+2 (2 kids on laps) in acceptable levels of comfort (compared to other vehicles where the previous row seats interfere with your knees in normal seating positions) and with no strain on either the AC (cooling) or pulling capacity of the vehicle.

Unsure if this could be achieved in any of the monocoque UV pretenders under exigencies.

[mooza]

For the highway runs, the Xylo tops in luggage space as well.

Each passenger can tuck away an airbag under his seat, and I have used this space to the maximum, as already shown in a nice and detailed ownership review by our fellow BHPian Vinay Rathore:


http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...onwards-9.html



As per measurements on my Xylo, a total of 480 litres of luggage space is available in the Xylo (including the boot and under-seat volumes).

This allows all the 7 people to travel in good comfort, with the luggage out of the way, and without the need to haul anything onto the roof.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

We all keep insisting that seat belts are a must whenever we sit in a car. Endlessly we discuss how lives could be saved whenever there is an update in the accident thread. And yet quite a few members have been talking about letting there parents and kids sleep on the back seats with the seats laid out flat. Why do we continue to ignore following these basic security measures?

Innova has this option where the first & second row captain seats can be reclined to make a flat bed. But just below where this feature is explained in the vehicle manual, it is stressed that seats should not be folded in a moving vehicle. Actually, if I remember correctly- and for the puritans -the manual discourages people to travel in the car, with their seats reclined below a certain level.

Having said that its very difficult to inculcate or explain the virtues of correct seating to your family, who most often than not are your fellow passengers. I just did a 700 km road trip yesterday and I admit & despair at how my wife and mother, from time to time were guilty of flouting many a safety rules.

[Hvt77]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Ertiga is a very understated car that does this people carrying without any problem but yes it may not look that spacious as compared to the Innova.

The Mobilio as Honda advertises is spacious than the Ertiga so it should ferry people in a comfort though using last row by adults totally would be a squeeze which is not recommended.

Anurag.

I agree with the benefits mentioned here of 7 seaters....and all that extra space and flexibility, especially for forever-challenged-for-space-mumbaikars like me, for the same / similar money, sounds so enticing!

[Hvt77]

Originally Posted by damager21

I think the problem is that Honda itself is promoting Mobilio as a 7 seater and hence people are bound to compare it with Xylo and Innova. Also in the video which Honda has put together, they are showing a grown up on the third seat. Slightly misleading I would say.

well, i am a 6ft + guy, and having tried the mobilio at one of the mall displays, i i can vouch that i did not feel the 3rd seat had less legroom...one or two notches further on the middle seat and there was sufficient room to spare as well ahead of my knees....

the problem though, was the elevated floor, which certainly made my knees point up....which would be troublesome for any drive over 15-20 mins really! ertiga, which i tried immediately after at a maruti dealership in the mall, had a lower floor, but shorter legroom!

i guess "kissiko mukammal jahaan nahi milta, kahin zameen to kaheen aasmaan nahi milta"!

donon chahiye to go for innova / xylo etc. innova i have tried, has a decent 3rd row space...though even for a mum - pune drive, we avoid it when its a company paid trip!

[SnakemanJohny]

In my opinion and experience, Innova and Xylo are the most comfortable among the Indian 7-seaters, with Xylo being more roomy- head and elbow space slightly higher. And Maruti Ertiga is the most cramped, certainly not comfortable for long drives with seven adults on board.
As for temporary/ short-distance seating of more than five people, I prefer the older system of two front facing seats with two jump seats (baby seats) at the back, such as found on SUVs like the Scorpio, Safari etc. These occasional seats come in most handy in social gatherings like marriages, where you just have to drop off some more people who stay in the direction you are heading, usually late at night. These seats are also convenient in that they have their own door for entry and exit, unlike the three-row seats where the middle row is inconvenienced for the egress and ingress of third-rowers. I have travelled long distance in three-row Innovas, Xylos and even Chevy Taveras, where legroom in the third row was not the issue, but back-benchers could not get-off every time we stopped, to smoke or to take photos, without troubling the midship travellers. Of course, the captain-chair mid-row solves this problem, while sacrificing space for another person (unacceptable in most share-taxis I travelled in in the North East). Now even the Scorpio comes in three-seat variants to satisfy the tourist taxi trade !

Talking about MPVs and 7-seaters, anyone take a ride in the Mahindra Maxx 9-seaters ? These are the most popular share-taxis in the hills of NE India, with an anachronistic bench seat in the first row, too. Of course, the middle passenger in the front should not be too tall or bulky (a young local the best !), so that the driver has enough left-elbow-room to negotiate tight turns.
And forget all your concerns about seat-belts ! Unnecessary and never enforced in the hills !!

[Fx14]

Originally Posted by SnakemanJohny

Talking about MPVs and 7-seaters, anyone take a ride in the Mahindra Maxx 9-seaters ?

A predecessor to this was the Mahindra Savari, that could accomodate 12 easily - had bench seats all over - first, second rows and 2 parallel facing bench seats at the rear that could accomodate 2/3/4 each depending on the size of the travellers.

There was oodles of space - legroom / headroom etc. - however no creature comforts (no AC / PS etc).

The engine / technicals apparently were the predecessors of the Bolero family - there was plenty of torque though it would run out of breath around 80-90 kmph on the highways. Remember that it would somehow behave and run much better when fully loaded or overloaded.

Luggage could be kept out of the way (on a generously sized carrier above) given the long wheelbase.

[4k_jz]

I have 6 family members to seat. My grand-parent, parent, younger brother and me. Without thinking, keeping only comfort in mind, Innova was the obvious choice. But then, enters the thought - "kitna deti hai?!" . And the comfy Innova is off the list. Yes, we do care about mileage over comfort. My brother loves the back seat and be there for hours without any complaint. Back seat for me is painful as my head touches the roof, so I LUV to drive.

Yes! Ertiga for my family is a proper 7 seater.
And as other members mentioned in their posts, the utility of a car varies from person to person, family to family.

The only car I consider next to Innova was the Ertiga. Pratical, atleast for me and my family needs. Everyone seated comfortably, smooth diesel engine, Maruti after sales (its pathetic!), price and FE. None could beat Ertiga considering all the factors. But then came Mobilio. After thoroughly checking the Mobilio (at a promotional event), I was quite happy, I din't wait for Mobilio.

[SnakemanJohny]

Originally Posted by Fx14

A predecessor to this was the Mahindra Savari, that could accomodate 12 easily - had bench seats all over - first, second rows and 2 parallel facing bench seats at the rear that could accomodate 2/3/4 each depending on the size of the travellers.

There was oodles of space - legroom / headroom etc. - however no creature comforts (no AC / PS etc).

The engine / technicals apparently were the predecessors of the Bolero family - there was plenty of torque though it would run out of breath around 80-90 kmph on the highways. Remember that it would somehow behave and run much better when fully loaded or overloaded.

Luggage could be kept out of the way (on a generously sized carrier above) given the long wheelbase.

Yes FX14, the Savari could pack in more people than the Maxx, but was preferred in the plains as a Trekkar-substitute. The Maxx is a hit in the hills because of all forward facing seats (though the other configuration is also available) -- less fatigue on twisty roads with bad surface. Both are no speed-kings, and do not need to be, in their role as 'sardine tins', but the torque is amazing. Fully loaded with passengers and luggage on the roof, they can tackle steep slopes in second gear even after near standstill, a feat a similar petrol-engine vehicle would achieve in first gear with clutch slipping !

[vineshpikale]

What I would really love to see/have is a vehicle the size of the Ertiga/Mobilio with REALLY comfortable 5 seats to start with. Plush adjustable seats with adequate thigh support and contouring. Dont really care too much about the additional 2 seats in the rear. As posted by others they can be there just to meet the short point A to B commute for 7 people. But the main 5 seats ought to be in complete comfort. The Innova while being large and now IMHO stupidly expensive isnt comfortable for the last row either. So why lug around the extra bulk.

[SnakemanJohny]

I think we have neglected Maruti EECO, the cheapest (except the Omni 8-seater) and roomiest of the 7-seater MPVs. Strangely, Maruti did not give aircon in the 7-seat version, and I do not know if they have changed that policy yet, but the cooling in the 5-seat variant is good for a budget vehicle, and one can simply add two 'baby seats' in the luggage area. The 7-seater's layout is convenient as nobody has to get up to let the backbenchers in or out !
But there are no 'bells & whistles'.

[onkar1710]

Greetings of the day!

1. The Mahindra Xylo has been refreshed as per the product website mahindraxylo.co.in.

2. Seems to be a great proposition if the body roll and bouncy ride quality alongwith braking has been looked into.

3. However there has been no formal inputs in the media.

4. Any pointers?

Regards!

[onkar1710]

Greetings of the day!

1. Took a proper test drive of the post-minor-refresh Xylo, H8, with airbags.

2. Clutch much softer.

3. Gear slotting much better.

4. Body roll and rocking movements felt inside the vehicle have improved considerably.

5. Fit and finish-no change.

6. Braking-slightly better, may be because I was adjusting my driving style.

7. VFM proposition of Xylo stands reasserted.

8. Can be safely recommended to anyone looking for a proper 7/8 seater at this price point.

Regards!

[Sebring]

I hope Toyota brings Avanza into the Indian Market. The MUV is the size of Ertiga, maybe a few MM longer, but is very well designed inside, and roomy. The last row offered reasonably good comfort.