[Sheel]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Hi Sheel.
The 4wd Scorpio is not available for test drives.

Ive driven both 2wd and 4wd Storme. The handling and suspension is very much the same on both except for the 4wd being very slightly taut on the front suspension and slightly more turning radius.

It is not, hence I wanted to know this

Whichever Safari/Storme you drive, ride isn't much different. Handling is.

But on the Scorpio, in its 4WD iteration, everything feels different. There is a GAP. If you wish, you may read about my experiences here and 1100D's experience here

A prospective buyer will judge based on what he/she test drives. I believe suv manufacturers making 4wd / AWD options must have these options available for test drives.

The only AWD variant I have come across while on a TD is of the Yeti.

On my visit to a Mahindra showroom i was actively discouraged from buying a 4wd saying it was of no use unless you drive in a farm. This, i believe is a wrong notion and im sure anyone who drives / owns a 4wd will disagree. 4wd on an suv is not specifically for offroading. In most cases, and im sure u may agree, its for those 1% possibilities where you cannot push a 2wd 2 ton suv out of a stuck ditch or a situation where you may get stuck on a muddy shoulder on the left of the road which any suv allows you to drive through.

We have an entire thread dedicated to it. And another

Tata was ready to hand me a 4X4 Storme in 1 month, Mahindra took over two months. And whenever you utter a 4WD variant, everyone will discourage you. Partly being, if you don't take it up, it will be lying in the stockyard.

If I take out my Scorpio 10 times, at least on 7 occasions, I have had to engage 4H. Construction material strewn on the road, monsoon making everything slushy. The 2WD truck's occupants have to walk a fair bit, as their vehicles hopelessly slipped wheels. Deep ditches because of road construction, road blocks [if a bridge isn't up ahead with deep water, I will find my way, you continue with your agitation, thank you] You may also read post no #355 and #356 here Sums up perfectly.

As far as the poll goes here, will pick the XUV over everything if I have to cruise on very good roads. Not going to pick the Duster because of rust issues + water seepage issues [documented on the forum] Haven't warmed up to the looks of either the Aria or the XUV and I am going to stick to ladder based SUV's so, either the Storme or the Scorpio and I chose the Scorpio because of local ASC and that Tata is yet to manufacture a niggle free product. Case in point being the TD Car in Official Review.

But I would equally be ease with either. Scorpio for being nimble to drive and Storme for its taller gear ratios [wrt Scorpio, mine does 90 @ 2,000 revs]

[nd4$pd]

Why is a body on frame construction considered better for offroading, when, arguably, the world's best SUV, the Range Rover, uses monocoque construction? If off-road ability is the paramount concern, then a Jeep (MM 540/Thar) or a Gypsy will trounce all the above SUVs

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by nd4$pd

Why is a body on frame construction considered better for offroading, when, arguably, the world's best SUV, the Range Rover, uses monocoque construction? If off-road ability is the paramount concern, then a Jeep (MM 540/Thar) or a Gypsy will trounce all the above SUVs

World's best SUV for on road usage, might. And it has too much technology going in, the entire suspension goes up when the need arises. Please do go this thread as well as this These threads will highlight as to how far has technology moved and that, we can't really compare those with what we are discussing here An XUV can't raise its suspension but a ladder on frame will articulate as the G does. Not that it makes it superior overall.

In extreme off-road conditions, you will come across vehicles having ladder on frame, with less weight and a short wheel base.

In India, if one has to do only OTR & can afford to have a dedicated vehicle for it, one won't look further than a Gypsy, Thar or the Gurkha. [You may add more choices, but these are what sprung immediately]

Safari/Storme, Scorpio, Fortuner etc are one vehicle which will do all the work. Take you to office, go to the mall, do a marathon road trip and in 4X4 mode, get you out of sticky situations. But these are vehicles in which one shouldn't go around looking to do some serious off-road trails on purpose. With road biased tires, overhangs limiting approach/departure angles to a large extent. If you go through our Official Reviews where a 4X4 was tested, you will parts/stuff broken. I recall seeing it for the Thar as well as for the Storme 2012 4X4 review. These are explorers. Will take you in relative comfort and provide those extra legs when you wish to explore the off-beaten track.

You may watch this video, the world's best ladder on frame vs monocoque. And I absolutely LOVE the G. And that it looks smashing, the way a SUV should.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NlaOS3Vxrg

Please feel free to correct

[nd4$pd]

Originally Posted by Sheel

...

Safari/Storme, Scorpio, Fortuner etc are one vehicle which will do all the work. Take you to office, go to the mall, do a marathon road trip and in 4X4 mode, get you out of sticky situations. ...

My point exactly. So whether the SUV is monocoque or ladder framed makes very little difference if all it needs to do is get you out of a tricky situation once in a while. Safety is my biggest concern.

I had seen the Range Rover vs G63 video before. My pick is the RR. It looks posh, modern, can cover any ground the G can, and in more comfort. To each his own.

Here is an article in Overdrive comparing the XUV 500 AWD to the Tata Aria AWD
http://overdrive.in/features/tata-ar...-of-the-world/

For this kind of terrain the XUV AWD would be just as capable as the Storme in my opinion.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by nd4$pd

Why is a body on frame construction considered better for offroading, when, arguably, the world's best SUV, the Range Rover, uses monocoque construction?

Before I answer that, I would differ slightly. I think the best SUV in the world are the Landcruisers. The evidence lies in UN purchasing them to traverse across hostile Africa.

The Body-on-Frame design is an older design which is cheap, extremely sturdy and got excellent torsional resistance. Also, since most serious offroading SUVs are going to heavily loaded/ over loaded, the body on frame design makes more sense.

Also, leaf-springs are easy to fit on a vehicle which has body-on-frame chassis. The cars require a long travel suspension to provide articulation for traction in tricky situations.

If off-road ability is the paramount concern, then a Jeep (MM 540/Thar) or a Gypsy will trounce all the above SUVs

Yes, absolutely true in the small, narrow Indian off-road trails. They are the best in India due to their short wheel base, decent torque and easy maneuverability.

In the vast deserts of Africa, Australia, it's the Landcruisers/Landrovers which are the best and they rule.

[abhi182]

Requirement: We are looking for replacing my wife's ageing i10 that serves primarily as her office commute (~50km daily)
My current car is a X1 that I can potentially swap with the replacement

We were looking for a vehicle that is comfortable enough for daily usage in the city and has enough space to seat the 2 of us, 2 (large) dogs in the rear and yet have enough space to seat 2-3 friends for weekend trips in the western ghats or a Goa getaway on typically bad roads

Currently the X1 does that duty but it is more of a city car and am not too enthusiastic taking it out on narrow/bad roads - Not that it performs badly, just a tad worried about the astronomical repair bills if I were to break something

We initially thought of getting a used AWD Captiva which would have ticked all boxes
However after TDing the new XUV500 and Safari this weekend , I have started leaning towards a new buy instead

I have never been a fan of Mahindra vehicles because of their often overdone exteriors and having seen at least 3 friends topple over their Mahindras (admittedly the older Gen Scorpios)
However the new XUV seems to be somewhat less garish and seemed to be fairly less prone to body roll in the limited 4-5 km test drive I did
The interiors too while continuing to be tacky seemed to have good creature comforts + the sun roof is an added attraction (Considering Pune is one of the few cities in India where the weather actually does allow you to use a sunroof)

I loved the space inside the safari but was turned off by the lack of confidence I felt while driving the vehicle (it seemed to be perched too high with a very high CG)- However the TD vehicle was the older gen vehicle

At the moment I am leaning towards the W10 XUV although it does exceed the budget we had allocated by quite a large margin

Are there any other vehicles worth a dekko?

[shankar.balan]

If you are looking for an MUV you would do well to consider the Lodgy. A very nice vehicle indeed!
Especially in the top spec trim which has excellent, supportive and comfortable middle row seats!
Else, only the Innova will give the requisite comfort for the middle row passengers and for the dogs as well.
The Captiva is certainly a good choice but then, so is the Fortuner, given your particular needs.
Saying this, an MUV will be far more comfy in my opinion, than an SUV.

[abhi182]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

If you are looking for an MUV you would do well to consider the Lodgy. A very nice vehicle indeed!
Especially in the top spec trim which has excellent, supportive and comfortable middle row seats!
Else, only the Innova will give the requisite comfort for the middle row passengers and for the dogs as well.
The Captiva is certainly a good choice but then, so is the Fortuner, given your particular needs.
Saying this, an MUV will be far more comfy in my opinion, than an SUV.

Thanks Shankar
we are in our early 30s and thus a MUV like the Lodgy may be a little too staid
Especially the lodgy ( wonder why they named it so , it rhymes with stodgy)
The Innova again is a little boring
The Fortuner seems overpriced to me and the handling/dynamics are questionable from what I have read (haven't driven it though)

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by abhi182

Thanks Shankar
we are in our early 30s and thus a MUV like the Lodgy may be a little too staid
Especially the lodgy ( wonder why they named it so , it rhymes with stodgy)
The Innova again is a little boring
The Fortuner seems overpriced to me and the handling/dynamics are questionable from what I have read (haven't driven it though)

If you find the Lodgy a bit staid as also the Innova I do agree that they are Van type vehicles and yes, they are staid.

Saying that the functionality is amazing.

In this case the only options for you to consider are vehicles like used Santa Fe's, Renault Koleos or Captive or a Brand new Duster/ Terrano.
You could even look for an used Nissan X Trail which will suit you admirably.

[IshaanIan]

If you're after a 7 seater, then XUV 500 makes a pretty strong case for itself as a new buy. However the used car market opens up a lot of options; none of which will be confidence inspiring to drive coming from a small hatchback and an X1.
Fortuner, Pajero etc. are all going to have loads of body roll leaving the Captiva as your only option (beware of reliability concerns and maintenance hassles with the captiva though)

A 5 seater SUV with loads of boot space could be another option. They are much better to drive. I'm thinking of something like the 2.4L Grand Vitara;rock solid reliability, impressive off-roadability, and tough as nails certainly one of the few cars around that can handle tons of abuse while at the same time maintaining a civilized experience for the passengers. Another impressive 5 seater SUV would be the Outlander

[abhi182]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

If you find the Lodgy a bit staid as also the Innova I do agree that they are Van type vehicles and yes, they are staid.

Saying that the functionality is amazing.

In this case the only options for you to consider are vehicles like used Santa Fe's, Renault Koleos or Captive or a Brand new Duster/ Terrano.
You could even look for an used Nissan X Trail which will suit you admirably.

Captiva and X-Trail (if a good example is available) look sensible prima facie - My only concern would be the cost of maintenance/repairs
The primary reason for using the X1 predominantly in the city is to avoid the high cost of repairs
Any idea how bad Nissan is with X-Trail part costs?

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

If you're after a 7 seater, then XUV 500 makes a pretty strong case for itself as a new buy. However the used car market opens up a lot of options; none of which will be confidence inspiring to drive coming from a small hatchback and an X1.
Fortuner, Pajero etc. are all going to have loads of body roll leaving the Captiva as your only option (beware of reliability concerns and maintenance hassles with the captiva though)

A 5 seater SUV with loads of boot space could be another option. They are much better to drive. I'm thinking of something like the 2.4L Grand Vitara;rock solid reliability, impressive off-roadability, and tough as nails certainly one of the few cars around that can handle tons of abuse while at the same time maintaining a civilized experience for the passengers. Another impressive 5 seater SUV would be the Outlander

I have used a Corsa for a long time(actually still have it) so yes, GM can be pretty bad when it comes to maintenance
One of the reasons for leaning towards a XUV is that I can ride it rough on weekend jaunts without worrying much about possible high repair costs

[charlessuresh]

Originally Posted by abhi182

I have never been a fan of Mahindra vehicles because of their often overdone exteriors and having seen at least 3 friends topple over their Mahindras (admittedly the older Gen Scorpios)
However the new XUV seems to be somewhat less garish and seemed to be fairly less prone to body roll in the limited 4-5 km test drive I did

If you think excessive body roll in Mahindra cars were only in the older generations, you’re wrong. Mahindra is yet to make cars that are safe and dynamically stable. Did you know, the M&M dealership deal across the USA had to be cancelled because the Scorpio did not pass the crash tests? Yet, they sell these cars in India, because no one in India cares about safety.
Just came across this thread a few days back:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...nt-deploy.html
I think the best 7 seater instead of the XUV would be the Rexton. Though it may be more expensive, it is still cheaper than the Fortuner. I, personally, love the looks. It is also loaded with goodies and the interiors still look fresh and upmarket.
You can even have a look at the Tata Aria. It has a slightly more car-like feel than the Safari and seats 7 too.
A used Ford Endeavour can also be good choice.
Wouldn’t it be better if your 2 large dogs take up the boot space in a 5-seater SUV?
If 5-seater SUV’s are fine too, then the Skoda Yeti can be a good choice.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by charlessuresh

If 5-seater SUV’s are fine too, then the Skoda Yeti can be a good choice.

The Yeti is too small for a couple, their 2 kids and 2 dogs.

The Yeti is perfect for the couple and their two kids OR two dogs.

The dogs sit happily in the rear with the seats completely removed. Much nicer for them too, but one had to spread either a sheet on the bottom of the floor or a proper rubber pet carpet.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by abhi182

We were looking for a vehicle that is comfortable enough for daily usage in the city and has enough space to seat the 2 of us, 2 (large) dogs in the rear and yet have enough space to seat 2-3 friends for weekend trips in the western ghats or a Goa getaway on typically bad roads

Go ahead with the XUV500 W10. It offers a lot of car for the money and is a better all-rounder than some SUVs costing twice as much. The facelift looks more mature than the garish old one, and Mahindra has continuously improved the XUV500 over the years.

[abhi182]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

The Yeti is too small for a couple, their 2 kids and 2 dogs.

The Yeti is perfect for the couple and their two kids OR two dogs.

The dogs sit happily in the rear with the seats completely removed. Much nicer for them too, but one had to spread either a sheet on the bottom of the floor or a proper rubber pet carpet.

With the existing X1, the yeti would end up being a very similar vehicle- Great strengths on its own in the city/highway but making me think twice of taking it out on a rough trip

Originally Posted by GTO

Go ahead with the XUV500 W10. It offers a lot of car for the money and is a better all-rounder than some SUVs costing twice as much. The facelift looks more mature than the garish old one, and Mahindra has continuously improved the XUV500 over the years.

That's what I am leaning towards
I understand that the xuv will have some degree of body roll (which I can manage by altering my driving style while cornering)
The only real concern i have is how it fares in straight line panic braking
I have seen a few cases of the older Mahindras tending to flip over - To be honest, thats the only fear (probably unfounded) that is stopping me from signing on the dotted line