[Tachyonites]

Toyota Fortuner

What you'll like:
• Contemporary styling & imposing street presence
• Tough build. Toyota body-on-frame UVs are known to have very long lives
• Powerful diesel and smooth petrol, with user-selectable driving modes too
• Interiors are much improved. Cabin is practical & user-friendly
• Loaded with features like Bi-beam LED headlamps, powered tailgate, paddle shifters & more
• Impressive offroad capability (by big SUV standards)
• Top-notch safety kit. 7 airbags, ABS, ESP, TC, hill assist, ISOFIX & 3-point seatbelts for all
• Toyota's excellent after-sales quality, fuss-free ownership experiences, low service costs & up to 7 years of extended warranty coverage

What you won't:

• Pricey! More expensive than the better-equipped & equally-competitive Ford Endeavour
• Missing sunroof, auto-dimming IRVM, lumbar adjustment, front parking sensors, auto-wipers etc.
• Ride quality – although improved – is still far from plush. You’ll feel the bumps
• Cost-cutting in a couple of areas; some interior plastics, ICE audio quality, camera display…
• Diesel’s short service interval of merely 5,000 km! Inconvenient for those with high usage
• Petrol variant is a guzzler. We saw merely 6 – 7 kmpl on the AT
• No longer a full-time 4x4. Also, 4x4 carries a Rs. 2.5 lakh premium on the MT (3 lakhs on the road)
• No cheaper / smaller diesel variant like the Endeavour 2.2 & ol’ Fortuner 2.5 for the mass market.

Link to Official Review (Toyota Fortuner : Official Review)

Ford Endeavour

What you'll like:

• A big all-rounded SUV with no real deal breaker. Fair pricing too
• Macho styling packs appeal. Solid build quality matches the butch presence
• Cabin is a nice place to be in. Likeable design, comfy seats & lots of storage
• The 2.0L diesel engine has “adequate” power and improved refinement levels
• New 10-speed AT is fantastic! And very smooth too
• Good balance between ride & handling for a body-on-frame SUV. Sweet steering as well
• Offroad ready - Terrain Management System, rear diff lock, 225 mm GC & 800 mm of water wading
• 5 star safety: ESP & TC, 7 airbags, roll stability control, hill launch assist etc.
• Loaded to the gill with features! Panoramic sunroof, 10 speaker ICE, powered tailgate & more
• Owners of the current-gen Endeavour have reported good reliability with their steeds

What you won't:

• 2.0L diesel simply doesn’t have the muscle, punch & soundtrack of the old 3.2L motor
• India doesn’t get the twin-turbo 210 BHP / 500 Nm version. Period
• Fortuner's cabin is roomier, offering more headroom & overall space
• Annoying feature deletions (e.g. headlamp washers) over the years
• Missing essentials (steering reach adjustment, tumbling 2nd row seat, paddle shifters)
• Ingress is difficult for the elderly / short folk. 3rd row access is terrible!
• Urban fuel economy is ordinary due to the fat 2410 kg kerb weight & AT
• No manual gearbox anymore. The Fortuner 2.8L 4x4 is available with an MT
• Weirdly, it’s now gotten heavier (despite a smaller engine) & has just 3 colour options!
• A bit uncertain of how the long-term after-sales will be, with the Mahindra-Ford JV

Link to official Review (Ford Endeavour 2.0L Diesel AT : Official Review (with dune bashing))

Mahindra Alturas G4

Exterior:
First and foremost, the Alturas G4 is HUGE. Seems big and burly even when compared to the Endeavour and the Fortuner. Doesn't turn heads (not a looker), but definitely has road presence. You simply can not ignore this SUV when it appears in your car's rear view mirror.
Front and rear design is pretty modern, but has a distinct Korean (read Hyundai) personality to it in terms of design language.
The side profile (especially portion behind the C pillar) is where the bulk of the car is pretty obvious and I would have preferred a bigger quarter glass to reduce that bulk. Currently it looks like it was originally designed as a 5-seater car and then they added 10-15 cms at the rear to elongate the car.
The alloy-wheel design is too simplistic and is a lost opportunity to add easy oomph to the car. The SUV is so huge that even the 18 inch alloys look a bit on the smaller side.
Doors are heavy. No panels have any sort of flex. The build is rock solid.

Interior:
The interior comes as a really pleasant surprise. Its classy and premium. The choice of materials, textures, color-palate, the quality of switch-gear, use of soft-touch plastic at correct places, the fit and finish. All of that comes together brilliantly for a very premium feel. It is very difficult to find faults with the Alturas G4 interior.
Even on ergonomics front, the front 2 seats are spot on. Its quite easy to find your optimum driving position. There is a commanding unobstructed view through the front windshield.
The ventilated seats are just awesome. Possibly one feature that I would like to see in lower segments as well due to the sheer utility of it in Indian climate.
Although it gels well with the overall interior, I am not a fan of the tan shade of leather used in the Alturas. The beige on the international Rexton looks really nice (although not practical) and takes the premium quotient up a few more notches. On second thoughts, even a complete black interior might have looked pretty neat in the Alturas.
If I have to nitpick, I would have preferred a chunkier steering wheel. Its a bit thin at the top and a bit fat and flatish towards the lower portion. But you get used to it soon.
The 2nd and 3rd row seats are below expectation. The 3rd row seat is plain ridiculous and possibly the worst I have ever seen. It carries over that tradition from previous generation Rexton. The 2nd row seats look inviting and super-comfortable, but when you actually get in those, you realize that the seat base is not long enough (too much of space between your calves and the front-edge of the seat). Also even for a 5'10" frame, there was sizable gap between my under-thigh and the seat. I am not sure, if the center arm-rest was broken in the media car, but it was slanting way too downward. The arm-rest on the door-pad (2nd row) is also placed higher than required and you would have a raised shoulder after resting your arm there. Not cool for an otherwise luxurious car.
The ORVMs might seem a bit small for a car of this size, but they are perfectly functional. The foot-well is spacious with a XL sized dead-pedal.
The center console is a very simple user-friendly design, not too many buttons and not too many complicated settings. Just the way I like it. Even the MID is pretty intuitive.

Driving Impressions:
Slot into D, lift off the brake pedal and the Alturas G4 creeps ahead as expected. The engine idles at 750-800 kind of rpm. A tap on the accelerator and the SUV starts picking up speed in a linear fashion. When driven sedately, the autobox upshifts around 1500 rpm. Keep the accelerator pressed and the SUV picks up speed at a pace in line with the expectations from the 180 horses under the hood. Go a wee bit heavy on the accelerator and the Alturas holds the gears longer (changing at around 2000-2200 rpm) and within a matter of seconds you are cruising at triple digit speeds.
Even after driving the XUV5OO for close to 7 years now, it took me a few minutes to get adjusted to the sheer size of the Alturas when on the move. Once the SUV gets moving, the first thing that you notice is how quiet the cabin is. The 2nd thing that you notice is that the ride is stiff, typical of a large ladder-on-frame SUV, comparable to the Fortuner (not as nice as the Endeavour). You are always aware of the kind of road you are travelling on. Go over broken tarmac or the expansion-joints on the flyovers and there is a fair bit of jostling and tossing-round in the cabin. The suspension noise also intruded into the cabin much more than I would have liked.
Overtaking on open roads is easy, as there are enough reserve horses ready to jump in even after 3000rpm. But the 7 speed gear box has a minor lag at the time of dropping gears. It feels as if the SUV hesitates for few milliseconds with a sudden accelerator input.
After driving around for about 40-50kms, I gathered enough courage to weave in and out of lanes between slower moving vehicles. Due to the sheer bulk of the Alturas, this weaving in and out maneuvers ended up scaring the hell out of other road-users.
High speed ride is nice and the Alturas could cruise all day long on highways.

Clever and Cool stuff:
With the key in pocket, walk up to the driver side door and the ORVMs open after blinking the turn-indicators. Its as if your pet St. Bernard wakes up just by hearing your foot steps. Lovely!
Open the driver side door and the driver-seat moves back for you to get in easily.
Alturas G4 doesn't start moving at all till you wear the seat-belt (and all doors are closed).
While reversing, the ORVMs tilt downwards and you can configure the amount of tilt for each mirror.
Most of the User Settings menu from MID gets disabled while the car is in motion. No unnecessary distractions while driving. Super thoughtful!
There is no sub-woofer, but still somehow (may be due to heavy build and thick non-flexing door panels) music sounds very good. I actually enjoyed listening to music in the Alturas.
Come to a stop, shift the stick to P and open the door, the SUV automatically shuts off. Very logical!
While reversing, the MID shows the orientation of front wheels till you straighten them.
The car recognizes you when you approach the boot with the key in pocket and opens the hatch automatically. No need to break into a tap dance like the Kodiaq and the Endy.
The grab handles on the B pillars are very useful while getting in the rear seat.
The electronic parking brake disengages automatically when you start driving. I love it when a designer reduces number of steps in a process.
The Auto-Hold feature is super useful. Once the car comes to a stand-still at a traffic signal, it holds the SUV and you can take the foot off the brake pedal without fear of the vehicle rolling/creeping. Very useful in city!
The ambient lighting or mood lighting is a simple narrow strip (at the base of the faux-wood insert) which you wont even notice when not lit up in the superb blue light. Looks really neat & classy at night!

Weird and not-so-cool stuff:
No auto-dimming IRVM (and may be even the ORVMs) for a 30+ Lakh asking price.
You can not walk into the cabin. You need to climb in. For anybody with average height, the side-steps are a must-have accessory.
Such a huge SUV and still can not carry 7 adults, something that a Kodiaq or even a XUV can do. The floor-mounted last row of seats are plain ridiculous.
The last row has AC vents only on the right.
After cleaning, the passenger side wiper needs to be placed back before the driver side wiper can be placed back. It gets obstructed by the other wiper otherwise.
You need to stretch your fingers to reach the horn pad. Didn't like the tone and loudness of the horn either.
The low-beam is white, the high-beam is yellow. Looks weird when both beams are on. The high-beam is not very powerful.
The luggage bay is pretty high from ground. Loading/un-loading heavy bags while on airport duty might be tricky for people who go to the gym only in the first week of January. :-)
For such a large and tall car, the limited headroom on the driver side is surprising. Most likely the sunroof frame has taken away some precious millimeters.
I had high hopes from the 360 degree camera, but was disappointed. The way the 4 video feeds have been integrated into a single representation leaves a lot to be desired. Everything looks very distorted and the merging of the different feeds is nowhere near seamless.

Summary
Very good, solidly built SUV.
Really premium on the inside.
No real complaints about how it drives and rides. Very typical of large body-on-frame SUVs.
For a XUV owner (typically a customer who values features and VFM over brand name and snob value), there is still no logical upgrade in the market. Lot of XUV owners had huge hopes pinned on the Alturas and were expecting a VFM package. But the pricing of the Alturas has disappointed a lot of them and most (if not all) have already backed out of considering the Alturas G4 as their next upgrade.
The Mahindra badge and the not-so-great first inning of the Rexton in India would make people stop and think multiple times before plonking in 30+ lakhs on the Alturas G4.

Link to official Review (The Mahindra Alturas G4. EDIT: Short reviews on page 30)

Kia Carnival

What you'll like:

• A truly luxurious MPV that’s also high on practicality
• Top quality, spacious & comfortable interiors. 3rd-row is usable for adults too
• Fantastic engine & gearbox combination! 2.2L diesel & 8-speed AT impress
• Comfy ride quality & neutral road manners
• Available in 7, 8 and 9-seater configurations
• 540L boot space with all three rows up and 1,624L with the third row down
• Impressive kit (2 sunroofs, premium Harman Kardon sound system, electric rear doors & more)
• 5-star safety rating. Kit includes 6 airbags, ESP, HSA, CBC etc.

What you won't:

• Massive size can make it cumbersome in the city, while parking & in narrow lanes
• Ordinary urban fuel economy due to the 2.2 ton weight, 197 BHP engine & AT gearbox
• Underbody does scrape on bad roads & large speed bumps, especially with a full load
• Top Limousine variant isn't sold as an 8-seater & its 3rd row access is difficult
• Steering is a level too firm at parking speeds & a level too light at 120 km/h
• Some misses such as paddle shifters, a skinny spare tyre, no auto-wipers or front camera...
• Model is now 5 years old in the international market; next-gen Carnival is being tested
• Stylish 4x4 SUVs like the Fortuner / Endeavour / Kodiaq can be had at the same price

Link to official Review (Kia Carnival : Official Review)

Skoda Kodiaq

What you'll like:

• An all-rounded luxury SUV! Classy styling, solid build & superb quality
• Cabin offers space, practicality and lots of intelligent features
• 3rd-row of seats is a crucial advantage over its many 5-seater competitors
• Impressive equipment list (panoramic sunroof, handsfree boot opener, auto parking...)
• 2.0L diesel is mated to a smooth 7-speed DSG automatic
• Car-like handling & road manners. Also, the AWD will get you out of tricky situations
• 5-star safety rating & equipment (9 airbags + a host of electronic aids)

What you won't:

• Power is 'adequate', but nothing 'special'. Should have gotten the 188 BHP & 400 Nm tune
• Overpriced by Rs. 5 lakhs. Priced at a serious premium over the Tiguan & Fortuner
• Cramped 3rd row of seats is strictly for children. A 5+2 SUV, not a 7-seater
• Styling is very understated. Doesn't have much street cred or presence
• Just one variant; no cheaper FWD or MT options either
• Should've gotten the Superb's ventilated seats & 12-speaker ICE
• Skoda’s ill-famed dealers & long-term reliability issues remain matters of concern

Link to official Review (Skoda Kodiaq : Official Review)

Toyota Innova

What you'll like:

• Indestructible build & durability. The Innova is known for its bullet-proof reliability
• Spacious, flexible & practical cabin. An extremely comfortable long distance commuter
• Upmarket interiors. The ZX AT variant is very plush
• Powerful diesel engines with user-selectable driving modes
• Balanced suspension & road manners. High speed stability is rock solid
• Top-notch safety kit. 7 airbags, ABS, ESP, TC, Isofix & 3-point seatbelts for all
• Feature packed! Leather seats, LED headlamps, mood lighting, cruise control & lots more
• Toyota's excellent after-sales service and fuss-free ownership experiences

What you won't:

• Hefty price tag! 2 - 3 lakhs higher than the already expensive ol' Innova
• Top ZX variant is unavailable with a middle-row bench seat (8 seater)
• Lower variant's interior looks too basic
• 2.4's NVH package still has holes to fill (engine clatter, dancing gear lever)
• Heavy steering at parking / low speeds. Can get cumbersome in the city
• Poor sound quality from the ICE. Cheap speakers beg for an upgrade
• Short service interval of merely 5,000 km. Inconvenient for those with high usage

Link to official Review (Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review)

[ruzbehxyz]

Quick price comparison between the Ford Endeavour and the Toyota Fortuner.



Source: https://images.maxabout.com/misc/inf...oyota-fortuner

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Somehow this reminds me of the Safari Vs Scorpio situation

Bang on! I can relate to it as I was in a similar dilemma back in 2009 and eventually, with heart winning over head, went for the Safari - never regretted the decision even once in my 8 yrs of ownership.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

But the sheet metal wont survive well as I have observed.

Mind elaborating on that front, please?

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

The value proposition when moving up from a 20L 4X4 to a 40L 4X4 - i`m expecting a lot, sadly both of these do not feel VFM at all anymore.

Completely agree. While the Endeavour checks most boxes (what with the lovely ride, typical Ford driving dynamics, those interiors, music system, etc.), the single downside (for me, at least) is the 2.0 EcoBlue, which makes sense in all rational terms - latest tech, better fuel efficiency, more eco-friendly, more silent, etc. BUT does not do justice to the brute of an SUV that the Endeavour is. Why, oh why, could Ford not have upgraded the 3.2 to BS6

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Mind elaborating on that front, please?

With most Japanese cars the body panels do not remain 'straight' after a while, they will have that waviness. You can observe this on the doors for most of them. Its been like that since the lancer days from my memory. I remember my surprise when I opened the door of the first model of Corolla that we had in India, it was incredibly light.

[aaggoswami]

Voted for Fortuner.
Endeavour came close but lost due to :
1. Too many variant/price/feature rejigs by Ford. Why cant it let a product run with some stability ? Was it all really required ? Or they acted as per feedback from customer indicating reliability concerns resulting into feature deletion ?

2. Ford's stability in India. Its already discussed elsewhere on the forum.

3. Deletion of 3.2 engine. 2.0 might be awesome coupled with an outstanding gearbox, but cant replace the effortlessness of a larger diesel motor.

Endeavour rides better than Fortuner, even feels better built and has a more butch appearance. But it loses.

Fortuner wins for me :

1. Its a Toyota, stable outlook in Indian market vis-a-vis Ford. Reliability is given.

2. Resale.

Its just my approximation, but Fortuner Spare Parts are expensive as compared to Ford. Could be wrong, but Toyota parts are usually very very expensive.

[ulhas.ahirrao]

I am in dilemma on this one! I am looking for an upgrade and owning a full size 'proper' SUV is a dream.

Did Endveour TD and came back impressed. All the good things have been discussed on the forum so will not get in to it, but the car is solid like a tank and I loved it.

Fortuner for me is a non starter as sun roof is a must. Plus ride quality also is sub-par. The interiors do not feel premium at all.

MG dealer experience was horrendous and I just crossed it from the list.

When it comes to product I have no doubt that Endi it is for me, BUT the only thing that's holding me back is Ford's future in India. Saw the Dec numbers and sales for Ford is declining for all models. If it continues it won't be too long before it shuts shop here.

I intend to keep the car for long (10 years), what do you guys think about this aspect of Ford's stability in India? Should it be a show stopper? I am pretty confused

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by ulhas.ahirrao

Fortuner for me is a non starter as sun roof is a must. Plus ride quality also is sub-par. The interiors do not feel premium at all.

Sun/ Panoramic roof is a nice to have feature but not something you will miss often. Go back and check the quality of leather or switch gears on fortuner and endeavour. Everything is built to last and functional on Toyota.

But if you are sold on endeavour, I won’t worry about Ford leaving India. You will be buying a global product, not something they produced exclusively for India!

MG and Kia experiences are at a totally different levels at most places. Not for everyone. To their credits, Kia dealership was the most prompt returning our advance deposit against a cancellation amongst any manufacturers I have come across

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Go back and check the quality of leather or switch gears on fortuner and endeavour. Everything is built to last and functional on Toyota.

I second you on ll the mentioned points, sunroof is indeed a nice to have and at times turns into a party trick too, but with the kind of friends I have, I am better off with a roof instead of a sunroof.

That said, I have voted for Fortuner solely because I didn't enjoy driving the Endy 2.0 at all. I am an old school guy, who still believes that if the engine is spot on; I don't need anything else to feel entertained in the car.

Where the difference lies between Endy 3.2 and 2.0 is:

In the hills: The 3.2 used to hold second cog mostly and third when you used to up the pace, now you go uphill or downhill, the shifts were really minimal. If you are a keen driver, the shifts of a TC bothers you because they alters your pace, particularly when you are going uphill. The 10 speed box in the 2.0 does a lot of hunting, take a hairpin and start moving up with a moderate foot, either there won't be sufficient progress, or you have a loud engine, and then it keeps on deciding and getting things right for you. At times, we just want a ratio that is short enough to climb, but tall enough to maintain the pace in a fluid manner, and of course an engine, that has enough grunt to complement that ratio. The 2.0 can never give that joy.

High speed expressway drives: In the 3.2, mashing the throttle at even three digit speeds was fun, especially when you are the wrong side of the top speed limit of TBHP. Particularly when the car used to hold either sixth cog, or just used to downshift to fifth, and quickly shift to sixth and hold. You could release the throttle, hit it and feel the shove, and then you wanted to do it again and again. That awesome feeling of the nose rising and coming down even at unmentionable speeds, the 2.0 simply can never offer that sense of power. And and Endy that doesn't feel powerful, can't be an Endy.

So, I voted for Fortuner, because for me, engine is above all; and the best motor as of now is under the hood of the Toyota. No Gloster or Alturas for me at all, I like BIG blocks before everything else.

[ulhas.ahirrao]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Sun/ Panoramic roof is a nice to have feature but not something you will miss often

I agree, functionally its nice to have, just that those moments when you would want to have it it won't be there (and the kids are just not budgeing!)

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Go back and check the quality of leather or switch gears on fortuner and endeavour. Everything is built to last and functional on Toyota.

Will do that for sure!

Originally Posted by Turbanator

But if you are sold on endeavour, I won’t worry about Ford leaving India. You will be buying a global product, not something they produced exclusively for India!

It was more from the perspective of resale, spares and service.

[cool_dube]

How about re-setting this poll - or creating a new one - now that Toyota has upped the game with Fortuner facelift?

[motomonk]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

How about re-setting this poll - or creating a new one - now that Toyota has upped the game with Fortuner facelift?

Yes, spot on! I am very eager to know the result in comparison with the new Fortuner. Toyota did not even bother to lend Fortuner to auto reviewers!

[AMT]

I'm thoroughly confused between the Compass (S) and the Endeavour 4x4 Titanium.

Compass - test drove for 200 metres and couldn't really tell. Going to do a proper test drive over this weekend. Interiors are spot on! After sales service is something of a concern basis feedback and reports. 15k kms service interval seems reasonable. Power to weight ratio seems ideal on this one.

Endeavour - again, yet to drive it. Interiors are classy, not over the top. Having read and seen so many reviews on the 2.0 engine, I feel will go prejudiced and not having driven the 3.2, there wouldn't be a benchmark. Service interval 10k kms is also manageable.

Fortuner - test drove the facelift 4x4. Some of the features are archaic and in the 4x4 mode, it feels sluggish to drive in the city. Quality of materials doesn't justify the price tag. While a good resale is an advantage, it's not the primary criteria. In terms of reliability, doubt that I'll drive it for 2 lakh+ km where it matters the most. 5k service interval will mean sending it to the workshop every 3 months. Bottom of priority for me personally.

Recently sold my 2010 Polo TDI Diesel - thanks to the 10 year rule in NCR. Want to get a Diesel 4x4 with 70 km daily driving and 4 road trips a year. Petrol isn't in consideration as we have a Civic 2019 Zx. Don't think I'll be doing hardcore off-roading (dune bashing or slush driving).

Endeavour seems like the choice - subject to responsiveness of the engine.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by AMT

I'm thoroughly confused between the Compass (S) and the Endeavour 4x4 Titanium

Both of these are current best options in respective segments. Take your pick depending on passenger/luggage capacity requirements.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by AMT

I'm thoroughly confused between the Compass (S) and the Endeavour 4x4 Titanium.

Apples to oranges comparison IMHO.

2 questions:
1. Do you need a proper 4x4 with a transfer case & low range?
2. Do you need a large car with 3 row seating?

If the answer to the questions is yes - you definitely need an Endeavour. Else, a Compass might suffice.

[AMT]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Both of these are current best options in respective segments. Take your pick depending on passenger/luggage capacity requirements.

Thanks for this. Pardon my ignorance but I understand that the Compass and Endeavour are AWD’s vs the Fortuner, which is a RWD with part time 4x4 capability. If this is correct, how would it impact majority driving in the city?

Mostly, it would be me driving solo on daily basis from Gurgaon to Noida. For trips, 4 adults plus one golden retriever. Also include the growing family!

Looking forward to driving the Endy tomorrow. As I see it, there will always be something better coming along but the best available at the right time is what matters.