[samee_arian]

How about TATA Gravitas. In case you want to hang on for a bit as it is expected to arrive soon. Harrier with the increased power output and upgrades in terms of auto gearbox and panoramic sunroof has become a better car than when it came out initially and with Gravitas you get additional 2 seats.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by KAY24

The ask:
o Primarily a chauffeur-driven car for city commutes and occasional out of city drives around Mumbai
oRear seat comfort and leg room is a must

o We love the high stance of XUV- so, no sedan
o A good suspension to manage the potholes in Mumbai
o Easy maneuverability at low speeds in Mumbai traffic
o Reliability, as we usually keep our cars for 7+years
o A full family outing would include 4 adults, 1 kid and 2 dogs
o Budget: Haven’t given it a serious thought. Maybe 50 lakh, can stretch more if needed though we usually believe in ‘value-for-money’ rather than a strict budget.
o

Barring the requirement to transport 2 dogs, I know some who had similar requirements (& budget) like yours and bought a Crysta 2.4 ZX AT with the 7 seats to replace his dad's decade-old safari. The car is unparalleled in terms of ease of use and comfort.

Fortuner & Endeavour were rejected due to their bench seats. Alturas G4 & Kia Carnival was rejected because of unavailability of test drives. MG Gloster might be worth checking out if you're open to the MG brand but still remains unknown commodity in terms of long-term reliability.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by KAY24

Primarily a chauffeur-driven car for city commutes and occasional out of city drives around Mumbai

You really can't do better than the Kia Carnival for chauffeur-driven luxury & comfort. Test-drive the top variant and you'll be blown away. However, there are downsides = the big size in the city, it does scrape over huge speed breakers and the next-gen model is already available abroad. But it is one heck of a car for rear seat comfort & space.

Will strongly recommend the Skoda Kodiaq as well. Moving from an XUV500 into this segment, you'll appreciate its quality, refinement & luxury. Only problem is Skoda has stopped sales because its diesel wasn't BS6 compliant and there is no telling when the BS6 version (petrol or diesel) will come. You might want to check out a 1-2 year old used example though. It is totally worth it, get a car in factory warranty and then extend it to the max coverage possible. With a Kodiaq, you basically get a 70-lakh car for half the price.

Originally Posted by KAY24

X3: Wow!! It felt amazing to drive, minimal lag, S mode revs nicely (Polo TSI is still more peppy though this one was diesel and yet felt smooth), steering seems spot on, good stance, rear seat leg room seems comparable to XUV, suspension is much better than X1 (or at least felt better), under thigh support is a bit weak though. In fact, this car left me with a grin after the drive. Of course, it's in a different budget. Did some initial discussions on price and there are discounts available.

If you love it and don't have any financial troubles expected, go for it. You only live once. Plus, instead of your usual 7 years, you might just hold onto the X3 for longer and save money eventually - please do read this article of mine (How a more expensive car can work out cheaper (if you hold onto it for longer)).

[KAY24]

Originally Posted by Sreesh1009

I guess both the cars are up for a face-lift. Why don't you TD both nonetheless. Also, the Fortuner might be a better upgrade if you want the same FE and range as your XUV as it has a 80l fuel tank as compared to the 55l fuel tank of the Innova. If that doesn't seem to be an issue then you can save yourself some money and get the New Crysta.

Thanks Sreesh1009. I will TD the Innova and update.

Originally Posted by samee_arian

How about TATA Gravitas. In case you want to hang on for a bit as it is expected to arrive soon. Harrier with the increased power output and upgrades in terms of auto gearbox and panoramic sunroof has become a better car than when it came out initially and with Gravitas you get additional 2 seats.

Thanks samee_arian. However, I am not sure on reliability and I dont think a TD would solve it. For some of my friends, the joy of a new car has turned in to the pain of maintenance over time. I just want to be cautious on this.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Barring the requirement to transport 2 dogs, I know some who had similar requirements (& budget) like yours and bought a Crysta 2.4 ZX AT with the 7 seats to replace his dad's decade-old safari. The car is unparalleled in terms of ease of use and comfort.

Fortuner & Endeavour were rejected due to their bench seats. Alturas G4 & Kia Carnival was rejected because of unavailability of test drives. MG Gloster might be worth checking out if you're open to the MG brand but still remains unknown commodity in terms of long-term reliability.

Thanks landcruiser123. I will TD the Crysta this weekend. On MG, have seen cases where the car starts rattling in a few months and IMHO, its not worth the risk.

Originally Posted by GTO

You really can't do better than the Kia Carnival for chauffeur-driven luxury & comfort. Test-drive the top variant and you'll be blown away. However, there are downsides = the big size in the city, it does scrape over huge speed breakers and the next-gen model is already available abroad. But it is one heck of a car for rear seat comfort & space.

Will strongly recommend the Skoda Kodiaq as well. Moving from an XUV500 into this segment, you'll appreciate its quality, refinement & luxury. Only problem is Skoda has stopped sales because its diesel wasn't BS6 compliant and there is no telling when the BS6 version (petrol or diesel) will come. You might want to check out a 1-2 year old used example though. It is totally worth it, get a car in factory warranty and then extend it to the max coverage possible. With a Kodiaq, you basically get a 70-lakh car for half the price.



If you love it and don't have any financial troubles expected, go for it. You only live once. Plus, instead of your usual 7 years, you might just hold onto the X3 for longer and save money eventually - please do read this article of mine (How a more expensive car can work out cheaper (if you hold onto it for longer)).

Thanks GTO. Appreciate your response.

I will TD the Carnival to test the drivability aspect given the size, though the recent news on Seltos brake issues put me off. Not sure if Carnival may have similar issues and also, service/long term reliability.

The suggestion on Kodiaq is very helpful. I will TD it and also evaluate a used car option. I had TDed the Yeti way back and wasnt impressed then, but I guess its incorrect to probably do that comparison.

I have gone through the thread you have mentioned, its very useful and an eye-opener in many ways. X3 is right at the top of my list right now though its still early days on the purchase decision - it ticks all the boxes except the financial considerations - spending a ton on a car which is a depreciating asset (or a liability as per some folks) is a big decision. But, a small voice in my head is repeating your comment "You live only once" (I am 40 now and not sure if I would ever feel enthusiastic about cars in my 50s!). Well, this decision is put aside for now as I have to finish TDs of all the cars on my list.

Update on TD of GLC:
Pros: Nice plus interiors, comfortable rear seat design and interactive system
Cons: Steering felt 'floating around' (cant find a more articulate way to describe it), rear seat was cramped and can seat only 2 people comfortably, suspension was not good at all, bumpy ride and also, found it over-priced. Off my list. The SE will come back for a TD of GLE but then its beyond my budget.

Revised list:
1. X3
2. Carnival
3. Innova Crysta
4. Fortuner
5. Endeavour
6. Kodiaq

[KAY24]

Update on TD of Carnival:

Pros: Acres of space, rear seat comfort the best I have ever experienced, great suspension, swallowed potholes sweetly, top end version is loaded with features, kids will love the dual sunroof, 3rd row can easily accommodate adults, driving experience in city traffic was actually better than my XUV500.

Cons: Captain seat in 2nd row (while great for comfort, would prefer a bench option as I have a small kid who usually prefers to sit in between parents), found 3rd row jumpy but I guess it's fine, unproven Kia reliability, weird that mid & top variants don't have rear bench. The lowest variant does but it has only 2 airbags which makes it an unsafe option.

Overall view: don't think there is a better car for rear seat comfort as long as we can live with a 2 seater 2nd row and trust the brand on service. However, I find it a wee overpriced and am not sure if spending 40L+ on Kia is a good idea.

This car is definitely on the shortlist and will do another TD along with my family soon.

[CEF_Beasts]

The Kodiaq is coming only in petrol that too next year April-May I guess.

Endeavour also feels like a much more premium vehicle only grouse is that 2L single turbo unit.

Fortuner facelift is coming in Jan 2021, will be getting a lighter steering wheel and some equipment upgrade.

The Carnival feels nice and premium but I feel it’s a bit too big and is at the end of its life cycle so should be skipped. Has some good discounts though.

I feel the best bet is the Innova Crysta, still is the leader in comfort, reliability, peace of mind though it is overpriced for what it offers. A person who lives close has a S class, an Innova Crysta and an Endeavour. Guess which does he use more; the Crysta!

But if you can stretch for the BMW X3 then nothing like it!

[KAY24]

Thanks CEF_Beats for the detailed and well structured comment. It's very helpful.

I did a TD for the Innova Crysta today- it was disappointing, there was a loud engine noise and the suspension was very poor. In fact, I cut short the TD, it was that bad. The SE agreed and mentioned that there must be some issue with the car- he mumbled tire pressure, engine issue, etc.

I have travelled in Innova cars many times and it's never been this bad. I will probably need another TD to validate this.

However, what's also clear to me is that Carnival is unmatched in terms of rear seat comfort and a luxury ride.

[KAY24]

Update on TD of Ford Endeavour:

Pros: Plush interiors, good steering feedback, adequate rear seat leg room, nice sunroof, definite upgrade from XUV500
Cons: Considerable lag at low speed city driving, underwhelming engine -felt it was straining under the weight of the car, suspension better than XUV but nowhere close to that of Carnival or X3

I also TDed a demo X3 car which is 10 months old and driven 7.5K Kms: I have a couple of questions on this - Is it worth evaluating this car or no - is BMW used car service worth it? If yes, how much of a discount should one look at when compared to a new car? (I have gone through the thread on how to purchase a used car and thats very useful).

[Revmatch99]

Go for the MG Gloster, its the most spacious among its rivals, it gets captain seats and a actually useable 3rd row. There is adequate luggage space even with the 3rd row up. It also has the best ride/ handling balance in the segment. Engine is super quite and powerful as well. And as a bonus its feature loaded with a huge panoramic sunroof which your daughter will love.

[iliketurtles]

Originally Posted by KAY24

I also TDed a demo X3 car which is 10 months old and driven 7.5K Kms: I have a couple of questions on this - Is it worth evaluating this car or no - is BMW used car service worth it? If yes, how much of a discount should one look at when compared to a new car? (I have gone through the thread on how to purchase a used car and thats very useful).

In my opinion, you should absolutely not buy a demo car. Lord alone knows how they've been driven for however few kilometers are up on the odo, and a new car would make much more sense. Not like BMW loosens the purse strings a lot for their demo cars anyways.

I would rather suggest getting an X3 that's run about 2 years, and maxing out the warranty and getting BSI for it as per your needs. That would give total peace of mind for your ownership experience, at a far more reasonable cost than a brand new X3. Let someone else eat the depreciation on these Germans.

[androdev]

At some point, you have to decide what's the #1 thing you need from your car and err on that side. X3 makes a poor choice if front two seats are not going to be used much as in the case of a chauffeur driven car. Carnival type of car is an absolute no for anyone who remotely enjoys driving. If one is honest about it, most cars have meh back seats and all the goodies and creature comforts are only available to front two passengers. If front two seats are not going to be used much, you can save a ton of money by avoiding expressive cars like X3. Also remeber to check tire profiles and tire pressure when you take a test drive - they make a huge difference and you could be ruling out a decent car because it had low profile tires or high tire pressure. For instance, Toyota made a stupid decision of using relatively low profile tires on Innova - you can improve the ride a lot by downsizing the rims.

If you decide that you like X3 type of cars, you will have to do some serious math about expenses. Just insurance, service, tires etc alone will pile up 3L for 20K km per year usage. Repairs/extended warranty would be extra, not cheap. Certainly worth it if you wish to enjoy driving it and can afford it - but your thread title says otherwise.

This whole 4 adults + kid + dogs and chauffeur situation warrants a people mover. Or I may have misunderstood your requirements.

[2000rpm]

Not too many people mentioned this option as probably this car ks discontinued now, but will be available in tbe used car route.

Try the Hexa! It ticks all your boxes well and is a great car!

[NarediAni7518]

Originally Posted by KAY24

• I got my first car in 2006, a maroon-red Santro called ‘Chubby’. It was liberating to be able to travel wherever I wanted, whenever I wanted in a new city- Mumbai. I loved it, spent many miles together and finally bid adieu to my first car in 2013.

Since your budget is around 50 lakhs, why don’t you look at the new MG Gloster ? Keeping aside the long-term reliability aspect, I guess it’s one of the best cars you can buy at that budget. Also, if you’re willing to stretch your budget by a little margin, do check out the Volvo XC60 as well. It’s a very good package as a whole and you might even get a good discount on a new car as it’s been in the market for quite a while now. The Kia Carnival is also a good choice but since the new generation has been unveiled globally, I won’t recommend that. The GLC and the X3 are also worth considering.

[Mustang Sammy]

Agree with Androdev that the BMW and other drivers’ cars make no sense if the vehicle will be primarily chauffeur-driven.
IMHO the Innova or Carnival would be the best value for money, although I don’t know how much to trust Kia with their recently reported brake failure issues.

[kovilkalai]

I went through pretty much the same decision process. I had an XUV500 that I wanted to replace. My consideration set included the Marazzo, Harrier, Hexa, Innova, CR-V, Alturas, Fortuner, Endeavour. Every car had pros and cons (obviously). Here was my final ranking (with pros & cons):

1. Hexa (Pros: space, ride, comfort, AWD, audio, interiors; Cons: No Auto-AWD, storage, steering reach, fuel tank size)
2. Endeavour (Pros: everything; Cons: Price, headroom with sunroof limited)
3. Marazzo (Pros: space, decent ride, price; Cons: Seat comfort, engine, no auto or awd)
4. Innova (Pros: reliability, comfort; Cons: Too much premium over Hexa, missing features)
5. CR-V (Pros: Honda petrol & drive, comfort; Cons: Small, expensive, CVT for petrol)
6. Alturas (Pros: Space, nice interiors & features; Cons: Ride, expensive)
7. Fortuner (Pros: reliability, space; Cons: price, ride, missing features)
8. Harrier (Pros: Nice looks, comfort, decent ride Cons: reported niggles, boot space)

Needless to say, I bought the Hexa. It isn't a perfect car, but for half the on-road cost of the Endeavour, it is tremendous value. I have driven this car on long road trips on smooth highways, broken roads and even off-road trails. It is a brilliant car to drive - a comfortable mile-muncher. The XUV was great on highways and has a better engine IMO, but the Hexa is hands down the better car to live with. The XUV was borderline painful on broken roads. The Hexa is awesome - better than almost every car on this list including the Innova. The only car in the above list that has a comparable ride is the Endeavour. If you aren't comfortable with the Tata, then the Endeavour is what I would recommend. My friend who owns one tells me that maintenance has been easy and cheap. The Fortuner is overrated.

While the Hexa isn't available now, it looks like a BS6 version is on the way with an Auto-AWD. Think about this.