[RoverX]

Originally Posted by haisaikat

If you wish to make the purchase now and it cannot wait then Innova Crysta should be the option to go for you. I let go the VX variant in light of getting the GX Auto 2.8 diesel with bench seat back in 2019 and I do not regret that decision ever again.
All being said, if you can wait, I would recommend looking at the New Scorpio, XUV 700 and of course Hyundai Alcazar since you are a satisfied Hyundai customer but you will not get proven track of reliability on Day 1 of their release.

Originally Posted by for_cars1

Just wait a bit more for the around-the-corner XUV 700
It will be perfect at your price point.

Originally Posted by GTO

Agreed with for_cars1 - Wait for the XUV700. Over and above that, some points:
- Innova Crysta and since you are open to used, get the newest 2.8L AT you can find. While the 2.4 is good, it's not a patch on the 2.8L which made the van surprisingly fast!

Thanks a lot for your insights, haisaikat, for_cars1, and GTO! I'll definitely give the pre-worshipped Innova 2.8 a fair chance before ruling it out due to its AT-only drivetrain. Although, I'll have to settle for the GX variant, since I really need the 7 seats.

Also, like you all have mentioned, it does make sense to wait for the XUV7OO. Hopefully, we'll receive detailed ownership reports for the Tata Safari, as well! And I've considered the Alcazar just for covering the entire spectrum within my budget - despite the fact that the design is more proportionate than the Creta, I don't think I'll ever get used to that crazy face!

Originally Posted by GTO

- Pre-owned Endeavour or Kodiaq would also be my top choices. But keep in mind that the Skoda will be the most troublesome to own over a 10-year period thanks to the brand's poor reliability & "stealerships". Got to love such detailed "what car" queries. Makes it such a pleasure to read + reply .

Thank you, sir! I know you also have a soft spot for the Endy, and I'll definitely need your inputs if we were to go the pre-owned route for the Ford. Also, 'stealerships'!

Originally Posted by CoffeeBeans

Please take a TD (would suggest Automatic over manual) and feel free to DM, will be happy to help with any questions
Also, as per Safari accessory brochure you can put roof rails on the sunroof version as well, although I haven't seen any examples yet.

Thanks a lot! The official brochure for the Adventure edition shows a roof rack attached, but I doubt if it's a mistake on their part. It must be an accessory for the XZ / XZA variant, sans the sunroof.

[NarediAni7518]

As people have suggested, you have the Crysta written all over your post. And for the Safari, I would strongly recommend try out the last row of seats as they’re not as good as the Crysta’s. Go ahead with the Crysta I must say, the only other vehicle, if you can extend your budget is the Carnival. The new carnival might come to India next year, so if you can wait, that’ll be good. But the new gen will be more expensive keep that in mind.

[Raghuwire]

Hi.
I recently plonked 22 big ones and got myself a mid variant of the Harrier. I was also considering safari, but due to sparingly used 7 seats, which I dint need, I went for the Harrier. Please listen to your heart. Can you stand the ugly looking Crysta? Or would you love to sit in the drop dead handsome Safari. Every time i look at Harrier, from inside the house or the terrace, or parked on the side of the street, my heart is full of happiness. This is one good looking car. In the past one month, vehicle has been good, no niggles. munches bad roads or no roads, like it's nothing. Bangalore's non existent roads are not my concern anymore. Yes Toyota may last longer, but at the end of a decade, maybe there wont be any buyers for a diesel SUV. The drab, boring interiors of Innova, are not as inviting as sitting behind the wheel of the brute Safari. Yes, there are kinks in it's armor, but, you will forget that once you sit behind the wheel!

Raghuveer

[AirWind]

Originally Posted by CoffeeBeans

Please take a TD (would suggest Automatic over manual) and feel free to DM, will be happy to help with any questions
Also, as per Safari accessory brochure you can put roof rails on the sunroof version as well, although I haven't seen any examples yet.

Originally Posted by RoverX

The official brochure for the Adventure edition shows a roof rack attached, but I doubt if it's a mistake on their part. It must be an accessory for the XZ / XZA variant, sans the sunroof.

After driving for 800 KM's I do wholeheartedly endorse the super convenience of the Auto over the cumbersome Manual... but DO NOT get a roof rack for the variant with sunroof.

[charade]

Interesting thread. I have very similar requirements, so will be closely following this thread.

We have had a Brio for the last 7 years and we love it. But with a growing family, our little Brio doesn't fit us all. I have been browsing through various fora looking for a good all round 7 seater. Only difference from RoverX is that we aren't considering pre owned vehicles (the wife has put her foot down on this one).

I had narrowed down to Ertiga and Safari, with Innova as a stretch. The heart says Safari.

Another similarity was that we have an eye open for the new models likely to hit the market later this year. Top contenders are XUV 700 and Alcazar. But worried about niggles in the former and can't get myself to like the latter's looks. Heard some reports of the new Honda 7 seater CSUV, but not sure if that's coming to India.

[LEOMAN]

Hey RoverX ,
Go for the pre-owned route, buy the 3.2 Ford Endeavour. I got mine last year before the lockdown on 4th march 2020. Believe me the only upgrade to the Endeavour 3.2 is either the new Defender or Mercedes-Benz GLS350 CDI. If you are fortunate enough you will get a 2017 less driven car, which is perfect for your specified budget.
Regards

Note from Support: Please proof-read before posting. Thank you!

[diwakarmuthu]

Originally Posted by RoverX

Greetings, BHPians!

REQUIREMENTS:
[/b]

Hi RoverX, you have pretty much listed out all the available options. I would go for the Endy 3.2 or the used Hexa.

Any specific reasons why you have not considered the MuX or the Mahindra Alturas G4? IMHO, the Alturas G4 will be a good VFM in a pre-owned avatar.

All the best in your search

Cheers

[daretodream]

Originally Posted by RoverX

Greetings, BHPians!

REQUIREMENTS:

• Budgetary constraint: Cannot extend beyond ₹ 25 lakhs OTR.

• While the third row of seats is going to see occasional usage, it will still be occupied by adults. So it has to be moderately accommodating and comfortable.

• We plan to keep the vehicle for at least a decade, so it must be reasonably future-proof..

• Good interior quality would be really appreciated, both in terms of form and function.

• Preferably one with a diesel engine.... I am a stickler for a powerful and torquey turbodiesel motor. Also, convenient as they are, I don't care for automatic transmissions. A good ol' manual 'box with a strong turbodiesel engine

• The car must ride well, be safe, well-built, and be dynamically sorted.

• Reliability and peace-of-mind are really important........ I have neither the time nor the energy to tend to frequent unsolicited service station runs.

Hi RoverX

I was in similar situation in terms of requirements few weeks ago and I ended up booking Innova Crysta ZX AT Diesel.

My shortlist had come down to a)Crysta, b)Fortuner, c)Endeavour, d)Carnival.
Budget was not an issue, per se. Safari was shot down by wife after looking at its boot space.

Ours was a democratic car selection process wherein every family member had a say in which car to buy and we ended up with unequivocal choice.

You know what was the deciding factor in making the choices?
Test Rides.
It were the test rides where all family members got together for a 20-30 minute ride for each car (atleast twice). Very specifically, my senior citizen MIL, my wife, my Sister-in-Law and my 9Y old Son took turns to sit in last row. They would be the ones who will sit in 3rd row by turns whenever we go on long ridess.

As they say, a chain is as strong as its weakest link.. and my family tested the weakest link - the last row seat comfort for all cars.

My priorities were clear - family comfort, safety, reliability took precedence over driving pleasure and snob value. When we did use that lens as a family, Crysta was the choice.

Specifically for Crysta, what sealed the deal came across was the ease of ingress to 3rd row, relatively more space and the ride quality sealed the deal.

As per my family, as much as desirable are Fortuner, Endeavour, they just did not hold candle to Crysta in terms of 3rd row comfort, ease of ingress etc.

I am happy between any of the choices (Fortuner, Endeavour, Carnival, Crysta). In fact getting a Crysta will save me ~15Lakhs which I can plonk to get another car when when I sell my 2012 Linea.

So, trust me, please do take test rides. Many options will be automatically eliminated and the priority order will get rejigged.

[landcruiser123]

Unfortunately, you are shopping in a segment which doesn’t have cut-throat competition. Toyota knows it, and can get away with pricing the Innova at an astronomically high price.

Go for the Innova with your eyes closed. Buy a used one (after inspection) with the 2.8 D + 6AT combination. Don’t worry about Toyota ATs, they are bulletproof. Just change the fluid as per the owners manual.

[GoCool]

I was in same dilemma 6 months back.

With my analysis, I ended up buying used Endeavour. I did take test drive of your other top choices and rejected them for below reasons.

Innova is really good fit, however I felt the steering is bit hard if you consider self driving inside city, particularly coming from i10 exactly like my case. XUV 500 was my next top choice, but rejected it due to build quality. If you intend to keep your car for at-least 10 years, then go check a 5 year old used XUV and compare it with a five year old Endeavour, you will understand what I am trying to explain. I believe it would be similar case even for the yet to be launched XUV 700 and Alcazar.

Tata new ones might be either beyond your budget or you will get initial batches which must be avoided for obvious reasons. Now what works towards Endeavour compared to other cars? It's easy to handle even though it's of bigger size. Its top notch safety and solid build which will allow you to use it for longer years, relatively comparable service and maintenance cost to i10 (yes you read it right!).

You get all the latest tech that you get in new cars even in 2017 models (I was pleasantly surprised by this). You will love the interiors because you are coming from i10 (Beige except dash and roof). Boot space with all seats up is still usable which may not be the case for any of your other top choices other than Crysta. Last but not the least, you will get a proper 4 wheel drive ladder on frame SUV!
Like you mentioned, you may not find many used well maintained examples. If you keep watching you will get one and the waiting period will be equivalent to waiting period of booking a new car. Good luck.

MOD NOTE - Please capitalize where required. Please space out the paragraphs. Request you to proof read posts before submitting.
Thanks.

[vigneshkumar31]

Beautiful, well researched thread.

Since you're thankfully not hung over SUV body type and have thrown Innova into the mix, there. is very little left for negotiation.

You simply want a comfortable family tourer, which would see you over the next decade with reliability and peace of mind. That's the one line definition of Innova.

Sadly, as much as it may seem overpriced, there's simply no competition or alternative to the Innova in the Indian Market.

What more, it will even fetch a chunk of your money back if and whenever you decide to let it go. Look at your financials and decide if the preowned 2.8 would work, then its a win win from all sides.

Since you are waiting for the pandemic to tide over, the XUV 700 should be thrown into the mix, but something tells me its price and 'first batch Mahindra' nerves is going to tip the scales in favour of the Innova eventually.

All the best.Wish you happy miles with your choice!

Side Note: I love the What Car thread, as we can throw our dilemma into the arena filled with like minded folks and derive knowledge (and closure) from the collective wisdom. The closure we derive is an important understatement. There is simply something so human about getting reassurance from our fellow auto heads, even though at times, we know what we want already - heart or mind.

Also, there are two statistical observations from most of our What Car threads. Simply my observation, take it with a pinch of salt folks.

1. Whenever an OP compares a lower segment/lower priced car against a pricier alternative, MOSTLY, the decision has been in favour of the costlier car.

2. Whenever, a Toyota is in the mix, (especially if its one of the Big Two), MOSTLY, the decision has been in favour of the Toyota.

[RoverX]

Originally Posted by Raghuwire

I recently plonked 22 big ones and got myself a mid variant of the Harrier. I was also considering safari, but due to sparingly used 7 seats, which I dint need, I went for the Harrier. Please listen to your heart.

Smitten as I am by the new Safari, I'll still await real-world ownership reports and for Tata to fix the initial niggles by the time I'm ready to make the purchase. Also, I'm not in favour of roof carriage options, which would be inevitable, should I need to travel with 7 people and their luggage.

Originally Posted by charade

Interesting thread. I have very similar requirements, so will be closely following this thread.

All the best with the car hunt, charade. Our requirements are indeed quite similar!

Originally Posted by diwakarmuthu

Any specific reasons why you have not considered the MuX or the Mahindra Alturas G4? IMHO, the Alturas G4 will be a good VFM in a pre-owned avatar.

Thank you, diwakarmuthu! The MU-X is essentially an 8-year old vehicle, which earlier came to our markets as the Chevrolet Trailblazer, except that the engine has been downgraded still. Isuzu's reluctance to bring the latest model (launched in Thailand) to our shores is beyond me. It's also underequipped as compared to the rivals and Isuzu's dealership and service network is woefully sparse. Definitely not worth the price they're commanding, and not a worthy pre-owned option, either.

As for the Alturas G4, the less said the better. A very competent product marred by the company's performance. After Ssangyong going belly-up, I expect Mahindra to drop support faster than one can say ALTURAS (going by their history with the Rexton). It's going to be a proverbial white elephant to own and maintain in the years to come.

Originally Posted by daretodream

You know what was the deciding factor in making the choices?
Test Rides.

So, trust me, please do take test rides. Many options will be automatically eliminated and the priority order will get rejigged.

I couldn't agree more! A long-ish TD is essential to highlight the small yet significant aspects of the vehicle's on-road behaviour. I haven't yet driven the Safari, Kodiaq, and Carnival yet, and plan to do so once the lockdown eases.

Originally Posted by GoCool

I was in same dilemma 6 months back. With my analysis, I ended up buying used Endeavour.

Last but not the least, you will get a proper 4 wheel drive ladder on frame SUV! Like you mentioned, you may not find many used well maintained examples. If you keep watching you will get one and the waiting period will be equivalent to waiting period of booking a new car. Good luck.

I was mighty impressed by the Endeavour and I'm giving it a serious thought, but 4x4 or BoF construction are not my primary reasons for that. What I cannot compromise on is reliability over the years, and concerns over the big 5-cylinder engine and auto tranny are holding me back. That said, I'll surely consider a well-maintained example if I come across one.

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

Beautiful, well researched thread.

Since you're thankfully not hung over SUV body type and have thrown Innova into the mix, there. is very little left for negotiation. You simply want a comfortable family tourer, which would see you over the next decade with reliability and peace of mind. That's the one line definition of Innova.

Side Note:Also, there are two statistical observations from most of our What Car threads. Simply my observation, take it with a pinch of salt folks.
1. Whenever an OP compares a lower segment/lower priced car against a pricier alternative, MOSTLY, the decision has been in favour of the costlier car.
2. Whenever, a Toyota is in the mix, (especially if its one of the Big Two), MOSTLY, the decision has been in favour of the Toyota.

Thank you, vigneshkumar31! Interesting observations, indeed. The pricier / higher segment car usually has much more to offer, hence the recommendations centre around extending one's budget if possible. Bang on with the Toyota analysis; although I've almost always found myself gravitating towards the Hexa and Endeavour as against the Innova and Fortuner!

[charade]

RoverX, curious to know if you have considered the next gen Scorpio or XUV 700. Didn't see it as part of your initial short list.

I have been reading the threads about the new Scorpio & XUV and I thought they maybe worth considering if Mahindra can improve the interiors and driving dynamics, especially for Scorpio. Tried discussing it with the wife but she doesn't approve. She doesn't like the current over styled XUV (can't disagree there) and "Are you a politician to drive a Scorpio?" ��

The bigger issue in my mind is niggles on a new Mahindra (or any car for that matter) - applies to both the XUV 700 and Scorprio. The Safari, on the other hand, would hopefully be further along given that it's based on the Harrier.

[RoverX]

Originally Posted by charade

RoverX, curious to know if you have considered the next gen Scorpio or XUV 700. Didn't see it as part of your initial short list.

The bigger issue in my mind is niggles on a new Mahindra (or any car for that matter) - applies to both the XUV 700 and Scorprio. The Safari, on the other hand, would hopefully be further along given that it's based on the Harrier.

Actually, I have mentioned about considering the XUV7OO in my OP, but it's not in the immediate consideration since the details are still sparse. I believe it has huge potential to take the game ahead from where the XUV5OO left. As for the Scorpio, it's still too utilitarian and unrefined for me to consider it as a worthy family hauler. The huge price premium (which happens to be an interesting thread, here (Curious case of the Mahindra Scorpio - How does it manage consistently strong sales numbers?)) doesn't help, either, and it really appeals to a different, very specific demographic.

Also, you are very correct to be worried about niggling issues on a new product (and a Mahindra, at that), and I'd recommend waiting out for an official review or ownership reports if you're seriously considering the XUV7OO. That's what I plan to do, before weighing it against my current choices.

[vaasscit]

Background :

I used to drive a Ford Fiesta 1.5tdci – it was a gem of a car. Super fun to drive, frugal and reliable. Owing to a ligament tear on my left knee, I sold it (still regret the decision) and bought an Hyundai Xcent (Auto) which felt so lifeless and vague. Couldn’t convince myself to continue driving it. So, sold it in few months and got an Ecosport (Automatic). Ecosport is a great car. It turns heads (Even today after 8 years) and handles so damn well for a high riding car (or SUV), and for a petrol Automatic it is reasonably efficient (I get 15 KMPL on highways and 10 KMPL in city). It is the top of the line variant (Titanium +) with 6 airbags, ESP, SYNC 3 etc., So, I’m very satisfied. However, my better half has a compliant : the backseat is cramped and the ride quality at the back seat is very firm. My father is gleefully waiting to take over my Ecosport. I could do that or I’m open to sell this Ecosport and buy Dad a new car.

So, that brings me to the Market for a new (read bigger) car.

Usage :

Used to be primarily city commutes (50 kms/day) for 20 days, weekend trip to Shopping malls/Park, bi-monthly out of the city drives (200 kms/trip) + Long drives (1000km/trip) twice a year -> (70 City : 30 Highway)
With COVID : Possibly few city commutes (50 kms/day) for 10 days, weekend trip to Shopping malls/Park, 3 out of the city trips (200 kms/trip) per month + Long drives (1000km/trip) 3-4 times a year -> (50 City: 50 Highway)
Driver : 99.9% me; Passengers : Mostly 1 adult (Occasionally 3 adults) + 2 kids

Must haves (for the new car) :

1. Automatic
2. Safety (ESP is a must)
3. Reliability (Fill it and forget it experience like my Fords)
4. Super comfortable 2nd row (Spacious & Silent)
5. Punchy powertrain (but no DCTs)
6. Handling (need not be a corner craver but shouldn’t be a boat)
7. Excellent A/C
8. Cargo space which could accommodate huge luggage (+ an occasional bicycle)
9. ICE which can support Apple CarPlay + A high resolution Reverse camera

Good to have :

1. Captain seats in the 2nd row
2. Electronic Parking brake (For those long traffic signals)
3. Ventilated seats
4. Panoramic Sunroof (My little son likes star gazing)


Budget : 20 lakh (Ex-showroom)


Options being considered :

1. TATA HEXA (Pre owned)

+ Amazing Value for Money
+ Almost all Team BHPians swear by its ride quality
+ No DPF/SCR issues
- Not widely available (It did not sell in large numbers)
-XMAs don’t have ESP, CarPlay; XTAs come with impractical 19” tires
-Some documented failures on Cylinder head
-Availability of spare parts in Future
-Below average TATA showroom experience (went there to test drive Harrier)

Result : On the list. #4 choice

2. Toyota Innova Crysta (2.8 Pre owned)

+ It has a “T” badge – Reliability comes standard
+ No DPF/SCR issues
-Commands premium in the used car market
-Preowned : ~5 years of the 15 years gone. With the changing landscape, I’m worried would I’ve to scrap the vehicle in 10 years from now
-(Earlier) GXs don’t have ESP, CarPlay; Zs come with impractical 17” tires and still no CarPlay
-Poor NVH
-Questionable Handling : While I was driving a 2.4 BS6 VX MT (with ~3000 kms on ODO) @ ~ 110 KMPH on a highway the vehicle pulled left ONCE just ONCE and over bridge joints, the car (VAN?!?) was losing it’s composure. I lost confidence and dialed down my speed. I surely want to check the Tire Pressure on this car (I don’t suspect the Wheel Alignment due to less KMs) but BHPians please pitch in here. I’ve driven the Previous gen Innova and never faced this issue. Maybe I should drive an another Innova Crysta ?

Result : On the list. #3 choice

3. Mahindra XUV 5oo (New/Pre owned)

+ Spacious 2nd row + Punchy powertrain
-Very poor handling – Deal breaker for me

4. Safari (New)

+ Looks
+ Excellent Fiat Engine + Reliable Hyundai transmission
-Issues being reported in new vehicles
-Non existent boot capacity
-Poor Ergonomics and Impractical choice of interior color
-Questionable reliability and safety (No crash results yet) and almost Innova money for a Safari

5. New XUV 7oo (New- To be launched)

+ Promising specs
-Gamble of buying a newly launched Mahindra

6. Innova (2.4 GX Auto)

Everything from Innova 2.8 &

+ Less polluting and more fuel efficient
+Get 15 years of assured road worthiness
-Concerns over DPF clogging
-GX variant lacks the features which MUST be on a 24 Lakh car

Not considering Innova 2.7 GX Auto as I couldn’t imagine the Fuel Efficiency on a heavy vehicle with Petrol.

Result : On the list. #2 choice

7. Alcazar (1.5 Diesel/2.0 Petrol) (New- To be launched)

+ Carried over super refined powertrain
+ Reliable (Hopefully the ABS issues are ironed out)
+Feature packed (covers all my Must haves + Good to haves)
+Petrol Auto could be quick (From <10s claims on Petrol MT)
-Quirky front look
-Questionable safety (In terms of crash worthiness, however ESP and Airbags are available)
-Diesel Auto might be sluggish (Alcazar would be the heaviest car to get this engine I believe)
- Concerns over DPF clogging (Diesel)
-Expecting poor Fuel Efficiency (Petrol)
-Documented High long term ownership cost

Result : On the list. #1a (Diesel) 1b (Petrol) choice (To be confirmed after the test drive )


8. Preowned Fortuner/Endeavour

-2nd row isn’t as comfortable as Innova

Result : Not on the list.


Questions to fellow BHPians :

1. Am I missing any other car on my list ?
2. Is my fear of DPF over hyped ? (Spoke to some of my friends driving BS6 diesels – they are not confident yet about their BS6 diesels as their city drives have been minimal during the past year largely due to lockdowns)
3. How good is the handling of the Innova Crysta over bridge joints at above 100 KMPH ? (Could it be an issue with this particular car ?)
4. Should I buy a diesel when it’s still available ? (I love the torquey diesels)
5. Would buying a Alcazar prove to be an expensive experiment in the long run ? (I’ve huge respects for Hyundai/KIA for what they have achieved in the past decade or so but still this thought lingers at the back of my mind)