[RoverX]

Greetings, BHPians!
I hope you all and your loved ones are staying positive and testing negative!

Apologies in advance for the long-ish post! It's been a long, long time, contemplating upgrades, getting confused, and having to reassess requirements and wishlists based on new launches, but the time has finally come to retire our trusty little Hyundai i10 iRDE from her primary duties after 13 long years (ownership report in the making).

We still plan to keep it around for urban duties owing to its endearing ability to squeeze through the tiniest of gaps and narrowest of lanes. With the family growing in age as well as size, as well as the addition of a couple of members, we have decided that it is prudent to upgrade to a 7-seat SUV or MPV.

REQUIREMENTS:

• Budgetary constraint: Cannot extend beyond ₹ 25 lakhs OTR. I'm open to both new cars as well as well-maintained used examples.

• While the third row of seats is going to see occasional usage, it will still be occupied by adults. So it has to be moderately accommodating and comfortable.

• We plan to keep the vehicle for at least a decade, so it must be reasonably future-proof (gimmicky gizmos like wireless charging pads notwithstanding). This is the reason I'm eyeing the top variants of most cars on my consideration list. Also, we're not big fans of sunroofs, given the weather in Mumbai.

• Good interior quality would be really appreciated, both in terms of form and function. Our i10 has one of the best interiors in the segment for its time (except for the beige dashboard) and they've held up really well over the years.

• Preferably one with a diesel engine. I'm aware that the fuel prices have practically negated any economic gains of owning a diesel vehicle, but I am a stickler for a powerful and torquey turbodiesel motor. Also, convenient as they are, I don't care for automatic transmissions. A good ol' manual 'box with a strong turbodiesel engine (I'm still open to considering one, though).

• The car must ride well, be safe, well-built, and be dynamically sorted. While it is unreasonable to expect big 7-seat cars to be great handlers, it must exhibit safe and predictable behaviour sans any nasty surprises.

• Reliability and peace-of-mind are really important. We acknowledge that the maintenance costs today would be significantly higher, owing to the increased complexity of the machines, but I have neither the time nor the energy to tend to frequent unsolicited service station runs.

Throw these requirements in a blender and hey, we've got the ubiquitous Innova Crysta on our hands! It offers almost everything I'm looking for, and maybe more, but the arrogance with which Toyota keeps pushing the price envelope northwards really gets my goat. And that's before the several feature deletions and specific feature-to-variant limitations (for instance, the ZX variant with the better-looking interior and 7 airbags comes only in the 6-seat avatar). Although the vehicles in this segment have long update cycles, I'm really not inclined to shelling out 3 million bucks for what are essentially new clothes on decade-old underpinnings (Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review). My consideration list is as follows:

NEW VEHICLES CONSIDERED:

• Tata Safari:
  + Fabulous design, proportionate dimensions, and great road presence.
  + Strong diesel motor with a manual tranny option in the top variants.
  + Well-appointed, comfortable, and feature-rich interiors.
  + Feels substantial and solidly built.
  - Stiff ride and over-sensitive steering at high speeds.
  - Non-existent boot capacity with third row up --> Roof carriers --> Cannot consider top-end variant.
  - Niggling issues galore.

• Toyota Innova Crysta:
  + Bullet-proof reliability
  + Strong diesel motor with a manual tranny option in the top variants (would've been nice to have the 2.8 turbodiesel, around). Sorted dynamics, too.
  + Spacious and comfortable interiors.
  - Too expensive. Simply doesn't offer one's money's worth!
  - Ride is not particularly comfortable and does get bumpy.
  - Nice interior reserved for ZX variant, which is not available with the middle bench.
  - NVH package have several holes. Engine and road noise are prominently audible inside. Feels utilitarian.

• Mahindra Marazzo:
  + Nicely packaged interiors with a useable third row.
  + Relatively refined ride and stable driving manners.
  + Feels solidly built and safe.
  - It wasn't the most feature-packed vehicle to begin with, and the discontinuation of the M8 variant means loss of leather upholstery, cruise control, cooled glovebox, Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, etc.
  - Slow seller and niggling issues.
  - I've heard horror stories about servicing due to tight access to the engine bay - a serious design flaw.

USED VEHICLES CONSIDERED:

• Tata Hexa:
  If it were still available, I'd pick one up in a heartbeat! I have extensively driven one, and apart from a few grouses (small touch screen, limited storage space up front, etc.), this car suits my needs to a T. The ride is oh-so-comfortable; the seats, ditto! The engine effortlessly gobbles up miles, and considering its weight, actually delivers pretty good fuel economy. Most of the examples I came across online are the automatic variants (XMA and XTA), and the few manual ones are 6-seat variants.

• Škoda Kodiaq:
  This is the definition of the urban SUV, with a not-so-gargantuan size and cleverly packaged, feature-laden high quality interiors. Gets a strong motor and 4x4, too! It looks suave (I prefer the pre-facelift version more), and there are rumours that it may be relaunched in a petrol-only guise. The downsides to this one are that it's automatic only, and while the new DQ500 twin-clutch unit is rated for up to 600 N-m, the words Škoda and automatic strike more fear in one's mind than the thought of World War 3! Also, the few examples I came across were out of our budget.

• Ford Endeavour:
  I have always had a soft spot in my heart for the brawny Ford. Driving one extensively made me want it even more! I was so impressed by the 2.2 AT, so that 3.2 AT must be an absolute hoot. Even the interiors are beautifully crafted, it's comfortable, and rides and handles exceedingly well for a BoF SUV. Endeavour owners are usually a happy lot, and don't seem to get rid of their cars soon. There aren't many sparingly used examples up for sale, let alone the MT ones which was discontinued back in 2017. The ones that I came across exceed our budget, and I'm also sceptical about transmission longevity for the AT variants, that might lead to eye-watering maintenance bills. Also, it's a size too big!

VEHICLES NOT CONSIDERED:

• New MG Hector / Hector Plus:
  Why not: W-e-i-r-d proportions - it's been more than a year, but I still can't place my finger on why it's so disproportionate (small wheels, oversized wheel arches, too narrow, too tall). Although the diesel motor (same as the Safari) is strong, it is weighed down by sloppy handling. In isolation, it's a fair product with all the gizmos, great space, all the creature comforts, and multiple engine-tranny combos. Also, MG's vehement attempt at hiding the Chinese roots doesn't sit well with me.

• New Maruti Suzuki Ertiga / XL6:
  Why not: Just doesn't feel special enough - extremely ordinary. Overtly familiar and plasticky interiors, small motors, light build, questionable safety. The only giveaway that I'm upgrading would be the size of the vehicle. The proportions of the vehicles are also unflattering - the wheels are a touch too small for the bulk above them.

• New Mahindra XUV5OO:
  Why not: It's a very competent product and I did give a serious thought to it before rejecting it altogether. It simply doesn't feel right to plonk that kind of money over a product that's towards the end of its lifecycle, and up for a major upgrade. The engine is terrific, but the interiors and driving manners leave a lot to be desired. Boot space with all seats up is non-existent, too!

• Used Kia Carnival:
  Why not: It's a minibus masquerading as a luxury MPV. A great product nonetheless, but way out of my budget. Also, it's a generation old, already!

• Used Toyota Fortuner:
  Why not: Notorious for holding its value very well. Sparingly used examples are way out of our budget. The 2.8 turbodiesel and solid build are the redeeming points in a relatively crude package for the price. The interiors are drab for its price point, and the ride is terribly bumpy, too!

We will finalise the decision to purchase after the pandemic situation subsides (hopefully), and by then, there would be newer vehicles to consider, like the Hyundai Alcazar and the Mahindra XUV7OO. We'll definitely revisit our choices then, but it would be a great help if the awesome crowd here could weigh in on the choices!


P.S. All the opinions stated here are my own, and I mean no offence or disrespect to the proud owners of the cars enlisted above!

[AZT]

Haha you've pretty much listed down every possible avenue. Maybe people will be asking you for advice once you finalize

[DicKy]

Perfect 7 seat car.

It's the Xylo that came to my mind.
Best third row by a mile, 8 persons can seat comfortably, until the car is in motion.

Originally Posted by RoverX

Throw these requirements in a blender and hey, we've got the ubiquitous Innova Crysta on our hands!

Hate to be annoying, but that is really your best option.

Originally Posted by RoverX

but the arrogance with which Toyota keeps pushing the price envelope northwards really gets my goat.

Think of it this way. Of the 25 lakhs you pay, Toyota may get ~15 lakhs in their hands.

Originally Posted by RoverX

And that's before the several feature deletions ....

That's something you can't accuse Toyota of. They maybe stingy with features, but never delete features already given. Except maybe the 2.8l engine. They always give a couple of features with every price increase, though it doesn't exactly commensurate with the massive price increases.

Originally Posted by RoverX

I'm really not inclined to shelling out 3 million bucks for what are essentially new clothes on decade-old underpinnings (Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review). M

It is bigger, more soft riding, more space, more comfortable bigger seats, a lot safer, power and FE increase. It is a generational change. Most companies completely change their platforms only once in every 2-3 generations. Here is an excellent thread on the topic.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ly-matter.html (New car, but old platform : Does it really matter?)

Both the Hexa and Kodiaq are my fav, especially the Hexa automatic which I feel is the closest/cheapest American landyacht equivalent in India. But piece of mind for 10+ years? Am not sure. You appear to be smitten by the Endeavour. Can't fault, and I guess you can find a 2.2l manual after a hard hunt. But the 2nd and 3rd row are not really spacious for the size.

By the time the wretched virus is under control, guess you will have a lot more options. Since you are satisfied with Hyundai, the Alcazar seems to be a logical choice.

[2000rpm]

Originally Posted by RoverX

P.S. All the opinions stated here are my own, and I mean no offence or disrespect to the proud owners of the cars enlisted above!

Your post has Crysta written all over it. But I think this will boil down to a Head vs Heart decision. Your head will be telling you to buy the Crysta. Even after 10 years, it will fetch you 10 lakhs easily!

[gautamkhadse]

In one of the other threads, someone suggested Marazzo and I absolutely second that suggestion, even in your case.

A pre worshiped Hexa AT would also make sense, a lot of them are available for pretty less money .

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-...ti-ertiga.html (10-lakh rupee replacement for my Maruti Ertiga)

I love the XL6 for its layout and practicality if only they had better build quality .

[Kosfactor]

It would be wise to wait for the newer releases, it is true that there is going to be delays due to Covid but what are we going to do about that anyways.

If 3rd row is important to you, try getting in and out of the 3rd row of the vehicles in your list - all of them, please do not rely on the internet for this. You will end up with just 2\3 names in the end. Either there is no space for your feet or its incredibly difficult to get in and out of.

Lastly - keep an eye on the prize, if 3rd row is important don't reject a car for the lack of sunroof or some other useless feature. A more useable car is the one that saves you money in the end, you tend to keep it for a long time.

[ganeshnag75]

I did the same analysis that you are doing, over the last month or so. I was considering a Jeep Compass and a Toyota Innova Crysta. My need was a spacious family car with comfortable seating for four, and generous boot space for a dog.

After considering all aspects, I have booked a Crysta, and expect delivery in this week.
The tilting point was the TD that I took with my family. After experiencing the inside of a Crysta, there was no debate left.

These are the threads in which I had posted my queries, they may help you too:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post5057949 (Jeep Compass : Official Review)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...ghlight=crysta (Garnet Queen: My 2021 Toyota Innova Crysta GX MT Petrol Review)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post5059156 (Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review)

[Iyencar]

I think you got to let go of your bias against ATs. In case of the Hexa it is the AT that's easy to drive while in case of the Crysta the AT is 6 speed while the MT is 5 speed giving the former better cruising ability and efficiency. Also, since you already have a small petrol MT hatch in the house it will be good to have a car that complements/counter it in every which way, including the type of transmission. My preference if I was in your place would be:
1. Preowned 2.8Z Crysta
2. New 2.4G Crysta
3. Hexa AT bench seat XTA
4. Used Marazzo M8 (because they discontinued this variant so can't buy it new)
As someone who keeps browsing the net for used cars to kill time I can vouch that there are quite a few good examples of all these cars listed for sale in Mumbai at the time of writing this post (PM me and I'll share the links).
I would say approach the Crysta with an open mind. It really isn't as overpriced or as outdated as you are making it out to be. The old 2.8's mechanical underpinnings make it worth buying used while the new 2.4s have sorted out creature comforts like CarPlay, front sensors and what not. If it still seems unfair to get one home then the other options are always there. P.S. MG has upsized the wheels on the Hector and the plus version. Also I have never seen any Kodiaqs or 3.2s with low running at the price point mentioned.

[BMvW.Rajat]

Keeping in mind that you intend on keeping your car for over a decade, the best and most practical option over here would be the Innova Crysta. If you really miss the 2.8 turbo diesel, look for a used Crysta, you should get a 2.8 Z automatic variant for a price way below your budget and if you wait long enough, you might find one with a reasonably low mileage (below 50,000 kms).
The XUV 7OO is something that can be considered once launched, so that would be worth the wait.

[AirWind]

Originally Posted by RoverX

Tata Safari:
- Non-existent boot capacity with third row up --> Roof carriers --> Cannot consider top-end variant.

You can buy the top end XZ Manual or XZA Auto variant w/o sunroof (i.e., XZ+ or XZA+) that can take a roof carrier and should solve the bootless 3rd row!

I strongly recommend the Safari in the auto trim with bench seats -> its a looker, seats 7 comfortably, VFM (within your budget), good driving dynamics being a monocoque construction, decent build and ride quality, reasonable mileage, relatively lesser niggles in its Harrier 2.0 iteration, cherry picked assembly (LR Disco Sport platform, Jeep Compass 2.0 diesel engine, Hyundai Tucson 6 speed TC autobox).

[Storm2.0]

Get yourself a used Tata Hexa. You should be able to find one within your budget very easily.

[TrackDay]

There are some 3 row seaters around the corner or maybe next year, the likes of XUV 700 or the Alcazar. However I don't think any of these will hold their value as long as the Cysta. It is definitely the pick over the rest as it will surely outlast the given time frame you have listed for ownership. You have also said that Reliability and peace-of-mind are really important & that you don't have the time or the energy to tend to frequent unsolicited service station runs. The search ends there itself. Only problem is that once you go the Innova route, in the future you will find it hard to buy anything else in the segment.

[CoffeeBeans]

Originally Posted by RoverX

Tata Safari:

Given that you are ok with Tata Hexa and the experience that comes with it and your budget of 25L, I'd strongly suggest new Tata Safari. I pretty much had the same requirements as you mentioned and eventually ended with Tata safari, and after driving it for approx. 1200 KM in past 2 months, I've nothing but praise for it. This includes one longish drive of about 800KM with 6 adults and comfort in each row including last row was better than any other car in the category without a doubt. Infact I'd say it was more conformable compared to an Innova.
With the used car market being upside down right now, Safari makes good sense.

[Vishal.R]

Originally Posted by RoverX

Also, convenient as they are, I don't care for automatic transmissions. A good ol' manual 'box with a strong turbodiesel engine (I'm still open to considering one, though).

As you are planning to keep car for longer, would suggest to go for Automatic.
Only disadvantage may be small decrease in FE, but unlike smaller cars/engines, even for an enthusiast, most of these ATs are at par with their manual counterpart in drivability, with added comfort.

Also as you are anyways going for top end variant, difference in price would be negligible if 8-10 years ownership is considered.

[Kartikaygaur]

Originally Posted by ganeshnag75

After considering all aspects, I have booked a Crysta, and expect delivery in this week.

Hi, do you mind sharing the discount on the crysta?