[ruchiragrawal]

As a person who has a Carnival and a third Innova, I'll say that you will get bored of Innovas really fast. I cannot add anything new that the others haven't already said: Carnival is a highway car, Innova is relatively much easier to take on rougher terrains. However, a Carnival is an actual 6 seater, whereas Innova is really not. Carnival is a bigger car, and will need more space when driving, whereas an Innova will not.

Buy the Carnival if you would really want an upgrade, otherwise, Innovas are simply unquestionable.

I believe that's really the nature of upgrades - you just cannot get everything in one package at a relatively equivalent price. If you do have any other car in the house that you could use as a car for rougher terrains, then definitely go for the Carnival. Carnival is the Innova of South Korea, and the generation we have is the one they have been using forever, so it 'should' not be that far behind in robustness and reliability. And even if you think it is, take it as a cost of an upgrade.

I would advise you to not do three Innovas. You will lose interest in them well before you are able to rack up 2 lakh km. Maybe look at a pre-worshipped Fortuner instead.

[mugen_pinaki27]

I'd honestly go with the Toyota eyes closed. Kia, while an emerging brand that has rattled up the automotive sector interestingly, hasn't built its Carnival IMHO to the exacting standards that we have come to expect from the Innova. With the kind of rigor and work you will be putting on the car, the Innova will happily do it for you. The Carnival not so much.

[rrsteer]

Thank you once again for your recommendations and reasonings. 65% Bhpians recommending a product, means i should follow suit. Will be booking the Crysta today or Monday.
A couple more questions:
1. Is it a good time to buy the Crysta, only considering the lifecycle stage of the current model?

2. I am leaning towards the petrol. Would you say thats a wise move?

[vsrikkanth]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

With the introduction of the '10 Year rule' in Delhi, I am forced to sell my very well maintained, and a vehicle I am very fond of - my 2012 Innova. Although it has done over 2.22 lac kms, it runs without a squeak or a rattle.

I own the prestige variant for more than a year now and I can vouch for how good a car it is. I don't even have a chauffeur since I love to drive and love to drive huge cars. If you are not buying a car for offroading, Carnival should be the pick. Even on rough roads, you just need to be a "not so reckless driver". I know the GC is low but it's not sedan low and has survived most bad roads. I have taken my truck to narrow lanes in the temple town of Kanchipuram, super-narrow streets in Trichy and many more. Believe me, if you get used to the plush and silent ride of Carnival you won't go back to Innova. I am no sedate driver by any means, I have done many a spirited drive with my truck and it survived all.. I can help you further with my experiences if you have any queries. Service experience, spares cost e.t.c. Again, don't get carried away by the so called reliability of Innova, unless your routine is to abuse the vehicle....

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by vsrikkanth

I am no sedate driver by any means, I have done many a spirited drives with my truck and it survived all.. I can help you further with my experiences if you have any queries. Service experience, spares cost e.t.c. Again, don't get carried away by the so called reliability of Innova, unless your routine is to abuse the vehicle....

Thank you for your reply and offering to share your experiences.

Actually I am a sedate driver. Any car I drive, I drive keeping in mind the best interests of the car, which automatically translates to its passengers. I don't abuse cars in anyway. Its just that I have to drive on rural roads of Punjab, which by themselves aren't in that bad a state generally.

Even though I am more or less decided on the Crysta, would be great if you can share some light on servicing costs of the Carnival.

[vvb8530]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

Have you faced any electrical issues with your Crysta? I am asking because my friend has a 16’ Crysta the initial batch 17inchers ZX AT and he has completed 2 Lakh kms, without any hiccup other than the tyres initially which Toyota replaced at their expense. And he had upgraded from the previous Gen Innova. He has always told me it is a fill-it, shut-it and forget-it car!

In terms of electronics gadgetry, the Innova Crysta is absolutely obsolete in today’s scenario. No unnecessary electronics are there as compared to the Kia’s electric side doors, bootlid, sunroof, heck Innova still doesn’t even get a auto IRVM, so honestly I don’t really see some electric component failing in an Innova Crysta.

Also the 16inch wheels of the Crysta are close to what the 15inch older Innova offered in terms of comfort, a marginal difference if I must add. The 17inchers in the ZX trim with low profile tyres are a different story.

But if you have experienced any such failure please mention the same.

I would suggest the OP to buy the Crysta eyes closed for the use case mentioned! Also I was offered a discount of 40-50k on the GX AT and 60-70k on the ZX AT last week when I had visited the showroom, so do ask for discounts.

No I have not faced any major niggles as such and my apologies maybe I was not able to put across my point clearly in my previous post. I am not in anyway not recommending the Crysta or saying that its a bad product, my opinion was specifically in relation to the 2012 Innova that the OP is currently using which as per me were much better built and rode way better as well. The suspension setup on the older generation Innova's was much better and the difference in ride quality is very evident so anyone looking at replacing the Innova with a Crysta from my personal experience should try and get as much time with a Crysta as possible before buying to not feel disappointed later. For those not used to the old Innovas the Crysta would still be a great ride and fill it, shut it, forget it type of a buy but I speak strictly in comparison to the old Innova's where I do not find the Crysta to be as robust either on bad or no roads which the OP would be using it on. Again in comparison the Crysta has much more electricals than the older Innova's.


Regards,
VVB

[vsrikkanth]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

Thank you for your reply and offering to share your experiences.

Actually I am a sedate driver. Any car I drive, I drive keeping in mind the best interests of the car, which automatically translates to its passengers. I don't abuse cars in anyway. Its just that I have to drive on rural roads of Punjab, which by themselves aren't in that bad a state generally.

Even though I am more or less decided on the Crysta, would be great if you can share some light on servicing costs of the Carnival.

If that is your driving style and you won't drive on rocks, an objective decision would be to go for the Carnival IMHO. Regards to maintenance costs and brief ownership experience:

1. So far I have driven 17k kms, which is a reasonable distance to find any niggles or QC issues that may have arised. So far I have not faced a single niggle/ issue with the car since I took delivery in March 2020.

2. Regards to regular servicing costs, first service was free as you would expect. 2nd service again was free as expected. 3rd service (10k kms) cost me about 4k, in line with the maintenance cost schedule published by Kia. 4th service will be due in about 3000 kms, only then I can publish the numbers.

3. Regards to other expenses- my front discs failed (warped) at about 12k - this was entirely my fault as I was pushing the van to its limits, frequently slowing down from triple digit to low double digit speeds. However, even after confessing my driving style Kia reimbursed the discs on goodwill.

4. There was a minor niggle after 12k.kms - clicking sound from the rear, but after a couple of visits, Kia got their senior technician to find that one of the tie rods in the rear had more play than the other, and again it was fixed to my satisfaction free of cost..Again this was due to aggressive driving on roads full of potholes like the one from Bangalore to Thiruvannamalai.

5. I broke the right side mirror, again my fault as I was getting used to the sheer size of the car. Cost me 20k, not sure if other OVRM mirrors would cost a lot less.

6. Since its CKD, spares are expensive, for example, rear bumper plus skid plate plus another bumper related spare costs about 30k. Same case for front bumper plus grill plus skid plate too. But at this price range I guess I can live with this, especially with insurance. Also, Carnival earned 5 stars in NCAP, so quality of spares would be higher than that of Seltos/creta.

7. This 2.2L diesel engine has been in service for more than 15 years, you can check the data on this. It's a TC gear box, so I expect that to be reliable. There are many stories of Sedona crossing 3.5 lac miles in the US easily. Even half of that in Indian conditions would suffice.

8. The ride quality is great, I have driven this upto 700 kms nonstop, and I must say I doubt I can do that with a innova.

9. After I changed my driving style to sedate- 90 to 100 kmph on NH and 80 KMPH on SH, I am getting average FE of 14 to 17.6 kmpl - much higher than Kia claimed figures. These FE numbers are fantastic for the size.


10. If you believe in "horses for courses" it's Carnival for roads (good and bad) and Innova for no roads (not even mud roads). It's Carnival for comfort and nonstop cruising and Innova for routine abuse - which I doubt any seasoned driver will ever need.

11. Plus I have an external TPMS to take care of my tires, since the spare is a 17 incher and only for emergency.

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

......And Crysta VX actually costs more than Carnival Premium variant .... So, we are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. The one that we love is impractical and creates doubt, the one that is practical and seems trustworthy, doesn't appeal!

Originally Posted by vsrikkanth

... I know the GC is low but it's not sedan low and has survived most bad roads ....

Being an owner of 3 Innovas, you already are extremely familar with its strengths nothing needs to be added here.

One noteworthy aspect is nothing lasts forever. Your existing 2012 Innova is in perfect condition and circumstances are forcing you to part with it. Any car however good it is is usually considered for replacement after around 10 years of use.

If maintained well, all modern vehicles will be reliable for 10 years atleast, so reliability shouldn't be a real issue in case of the Carnival during this period.

The only real minus point with the Carnival is the lower ground clearance (relatively complared to the Crysta). With all the road conditions seeing a significant improvement in the recent years and hoping that this trend will continue, it should not be dealbreaker to manage with a Carnival.

Your heart is clearly set on the Carnival and your mind is with the Crysta. I'd say go with your heart. You already have 2 other Innovas and we all have one life to live, so the Carnival experience will make a difference and is worth trying.

[gotoguru]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

Will be booking the Crysta today or Monday.

2. I am leaning towards the petrol. Would you say thats a wise move?

I am also eagerly waiting for the feedback from our members in this regard.

[pradheepsr]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

With the introduction of the '10 Year rule' in Delhi, I am forced to sell my very well maintained, and a vehicle I am very fond of - my 2012 Innova. Although it has done over 2.22 lac kms, it runs without a squeak or a rattle.

Anyways, we have shortlisted two cars for our next purchase. Its either a Crysta VX or a Carnival Prestige. For sometime I flirted with the idea of retaining the Innova and buying a pre-owned Camry. But, we have been spoilt by the space that Innova offers and ultimately Camry felt a bit cramped. Just couldn't imagine doing a long road trip in a Camry.

While my head says buy the Crysta, my heart has been swayed by the Carnival (I can listen to my head, more often than I like). In contrast, my mom and wife have fell for the Carnival, hook, line and sinker. But ultimately, cars being 'my department', they have left the decision to me.

Now my question to the wise folks here, will Carnival be the right choice given the following:

1) Like the current Innova, want the next car to do duty for us for the next 9-10 years (bear in mind Carnival is diesel engine only)

2) 9-10 years of ownership would mean crossing the 2 lac mark on the odo. Its not about raking up the miles, but how the car rakes them up. E.g. I don't like the condition of my friends Scorpio that just crossed 2lac kms. He is as devoted to his cars as me, if not more.

3) Innova never visited the service center apart from the mandated scheduled service, can the Carnival approach this in terms of reliability?

4) The Prestige variant inspite of it being the base variant in the Carnival, carries just too many features for my liking. I fear how long will they work without trouble? e.g. imagine the electric motor of Carnival's rear door conking off!

5) My cars are well maintained, but I do put them to hard use, e.g. travelling on cobbled rural roads, no roads, carry heavy load at times, and at the same time expect them to stay rattle free, just like the Innova did.

6) I like an odd-numbered list, but let me add one last point. Servicing a Toyota is a breezy affair. I have 3 Toyotas at the moment, and for each its just a no-hassle, drop the car and pick up the car at the designated time type of a thing. The whole servicing experience, is generally marked by a level of certainty that I just don't get to experience anywhere else, even across other consumer products and services. I don't expect Kia to be Toyota, but given the concession I am already making, how much more is needed or not needed?

PS: In terms of price, believe it or not, both the Crysta and Carnival are turning out to be as costly to purchase. All things adjusted ( e.g. sale of the Innova) I will have an outgo between 18 -19 lacs, should I pick either.

Finally, before I end, if there is any likelihood of Toyota launching a hybrid Crysta by end of next year, I will postpone this purchase.

Been searching for a comfy MPV (not under a budget) for my parents who are in their 60s now..we test drove the carnival last week..impressed with the ride and comfort especially with tha VIP seats in the limousine variant..and of course it’s loaded to the gills with features by Kia.,barring some key ones..no complaints on the ride quality and the engine-transmission combo..
But at the back of my mind.,can’t help but to think that the carnival we have is a generation old(almost 4 years since intro)..also the new gen carnival launched in June 2020 last year in Europe and Australia keeps popping up in my mind..
The new gen carnival appears more mature and grown up and even more appealing.
Learnt from the sales guy that he’s willing offer up to 2.5 lacs as cash discount on the OTR price…but..but..he almost convinced us by saying that the new gen won’t launch Atleast in 2 years..
Now we’re in a dilemma whether go for this gen carnival even though it’s dated or wait for the new gen even though there’s no official word from Kia about its launch…
Having owned the 1st gen Innova and fortuner previously I suggested my dad to go for the Innova blindly(Atleast 8-9 lac cheaper) instead…
But he refused it point blank saying that he was never impressed with the ride quality on either (both were bouncy )according to him
My queries
Whether to wait for the next gen carnival??
Whether to go for the current gen if there’s a sizeable cash discount??
Consider an Innova as a safer option instead??
Go a segment down and wait till the XUV 700 launches??

PS: 6-7 seater is a must with good boot space

[One]

Originally Posted by pradheepsr

but..he almost convinced us by saying that the new gen won’t launch Atleast in 2 years..
Now we’re in a dilemma whether go for this gen carnival even though it’s dated or wait for the new gen even though there’s no official word from Kia about its launch…

My queries
Whether to wait for the next gen carnival??
Whether to go for the current gen if there’s a sizeable cash discount??
Consider an Innova as a safer option instead??
Go a segment down and wait till the XUV 700 launches??

PS: 6-7 seater is a must with good boot space

It is a dilemma indeed- the longer you wait, the closer you are to the possibility of a new launch !

Likewise for the new 7OO- are you fine with the almost certain niggles that the first version of a model will come with?

So the only question is- How long are you willing to wait for the new Carnival? And if not too long, are you going to look at other 6-7 seater options which might more be ladder-on-frame options that your father doesn't like.

[pradheepsr]

Originally Posted by One

It is a dilemma indeed- the longer you wait, the closer you are to the possibility of a new launch !

Likewise for the new 7OO- are you fine with the almost certain niggles that the first version of a model will come with?

So the only question is- How long are you willing to wait for the new Carnival? And if not too long, are you going to look at other 6-7 seater options which might more be ladder-on-frame options that your father doesn't like.

Oh those niggles that come with almost any 1st gen Tata’s and Mahindras..!!As of now we have decided to wait until year end and decide what’s around the corner at that point..test drove the safari as well..dada wasn’t impressed to a certain extent again inspite it’s almost 13-14 lac cheaper..

PS: he had been driving(or rather been driven around) a JAG XJL 3.0V6…guess that’s what spoilt him.

[One]

Originally Posted by pradheepsr

Been searching for a comfy MPV (not under a budget)

Originally Posted by pradheepsr

PS: he had been driving(or rather been driven around) a JAG XJL 3.0V6…guess that’s what spoilt him.

Had assumed something like this based on your first post How did he find the interiors/ ride quality of the Endeavour as compared to the Carnival?

Don't have any idea about the luxury segment but are you guys also looking at 6-7 seaters in that segment- the X7s, XC90 types?

[pradheepsr]

Originally Posted by One

Had assumed something like this based on your first post How did he find the interiors/ ride quality of the Endeavour as compared to the Carnival?

Don't have any idea about the luxury segment but are you guys also looking at 6-7 seaters in that segment- the X7s, XC90 types?

Glad u did..yup he did take a TD of the endy recently and criticised the lack of 3rd row space..and being a ladder on frame .,the ride as well came under criticism..
My point is that he liked the carnival after the TD ..
But is thinking hard about signature cheque as a new gen is around the corner..

[rrsteer]

With the belt tightening around environment regulations, I feel petrol as a fuel is a safer choice than diesel. So I opted for a petrol Crysta over a diesel one. With regards to the variant, grudgingly opted for the top ZX variant. It is day light robbery by Toyota, but what to do, there is no choice.

So with the choice of vehicle and variant decided, i approached the local dealership. They wanted INR 1 lac as non-refundable booking deposit and delivery only after 4-5 months. This sounded unreasonable, so contacted the dealership in Chandigarh, with the assumption that more people will be opting for the petrol variant there. The Chandigarh dealer sales team response was even more incredulous. INR 5 lacs non-refundable booking amount and a delivery timeline of 6-7 months! Its not like I am buying a Land Cruiser here!

Next, just so that company itself is involved somewhere in the loop, I have submitted my interest using their website. My hope is, Toyota's sales team note my interest in the Petrol Crysta and route it to the dealer and then keep some track of how the sales lead progresses.

I am buying a new car almost after a decade now, but its still not a very easy experience.