[headbanger]

Background: I see myself as the common mango man - my choices and decision making follow pattern of how the broader middle class thinks and makes choices, right from phones to cars.

Current Garage: I have 3 Marutis, all of them petrol - each one of them being the primary car for me, my brother and my father. The cars keep getting revolved among us three. The three cars are 2010 Ritz Vxi (1.7L on odo), 2011 Dzire Vxi(1.2L on odo) and 2019 Swift Vxi (30k on Odo).

All of the cars are driven in NCR and hence wear scars on exteriors. All are mechanically sorted and are highway ready. I spend INR 3k-3.5k on minor service schedule (10k/30k/50k/...) and INR 5k max for major service schedule (20k/40k/60k/...). All said and done, even if I include the yearly insurance premium, the older 2 cars incur some paise above a rupee per km.

My extended family has an Innova, Polo 1.6Tdi, Sonet GTX+ D AT and Seltos HTK+ D AT with the last 2 additions in last 18 months. I have driven all of these cars reasonably well - say at least 5k kms for each car.

Original Requirement: I wanted a high seated, safe automatic car that can seat 5 folks comfortably without compromising peace of mind under 15L OTR. Let me just put the requirements in chronological order of importance:

• Peace of Mind

• Safety

• High Seated

• Automatic (should not be AMT)

• Budget - 15L OTR

• Can seat 5 comfortably (Preference only, I can live with 4 seats as well if budget <15l OTR)

I can play with the last 2 points here.

USAGE: 70% Highway:30% City. 15k kms/year

Analysis Paralysis:

Cars in Auto trims rejected:

• Maruti Ciaz / Honda City - Too LOW

• Maruti XL6/Maruti S Cross - Too S-L-O-W. Lethargic at best. 0-90kmph tools.

• Rapid / Polo/ Vento - Too low.

• Kushaq - Can't compromise peace of mind for sake of perceived physical safety. Was a heartbreak, not only how it was priced but also how it is being defended in spite of stalling all around the place. My existing rickety cars never ever stall on any road despite their shortcomings. Zac Hollis is not my relative either that I can depend upon him in the longer run.

• Venue - Sonet is the better one.

• XUV 7OO - Too big though I loved every bit of it. For me it's a highway tool. I will need to get a Wagon R replacing my existing Ritz along with it.

• Kiger/Magnite - Poor dealer network/ Shabby practices. Loss of peace of mind.

Cars in contention (with compromise):

• Sonet D AT- (unknown safety - still no Crash testing)

• Creta/Seltos D AT or Petrol IVT - ( a 20L car with 3 crash rating)

• Astor Petrol CVT - Outside chance. Only if push comes to shove- Political overtures for not subscribing to MG.

Although I live in NCR, but I can consider either fuel for this purchase if there is a strong reason. 1.5 D with Torque Converter is only in the picture because it is match made in heaven.

Closing quotes: At the start, I never thought that I will compromise on safety. But here I am - choosing between peace of mind and safety rating.

I simply can't donate peace of mind of ownership - read VAG/Skoda cars. Please don't recommend me these cars, I am not that niche segment intelligentsia. Sit with me and I can explain 100 pros and cons of Maruti cars but can't understand why should I plan my trips with search of RON 95 fuel pumps.

Tata and Mahindra don't have pure automatics, else I would have bought Nexon or Xuv3OO in a blink. I can raise the budget by 25%, but even then I can't find a car that ticks at least 80% of my requirements.

The remorse is that I will end up owning a car which may lack the very basic tenet of safety from where I started thinking of new purchase.

What should I do? Make the purchase and take leap of faith OR sit on the fence.

[karanddd]

I have the exact same dilemma right now. Maybe if you wait a bit, Kia will launch a new Seltos with a better safety rating. They're sure to see sales plummeting sooner or later because of the 3 star rating. The fact is that there are very few 4 or 5 star rated cars in India, and most are not in this segment.

The VW/Skoda crossovers, the Harrier/Safari, the XUV700, Sonet/Venue, and S-cross have not been crash tested. You can even be sure that the Harrier/Safari will not get 5 stars because Tata promptly sent its Punch for the test, but hasn't sent either of them. If safety matters that much, you can get a Nexon, XUV300, or Thar, they're the only crossover/SUV cars with good test results (off the top of my head).

None of your current cars would (most likely) get any stars in the crash test and you've driven them plenty, so if you are happy to give a safety a toss, you could get a Seltos/Creta turbo petrol and enjoy the car without losing your head over breakdowns and the like.

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by headbanger

What should I do? Make the purchase and take leap of faith OR sit on the fence.

When I drove a friend's XL6 (and liked it), it didn't seem that much of a slowpoke to me. But then I am a sedate driver, plus it was a manual. Maybe the XL6 AT does feel lethargic.

Have you tried the Ertiga AT? It has the exact same bhp/torque figures as the XL6, but could feel peppier as it's lighter than its more posh sibling.

[headbanger]

Originally Posted by comfortablynumb

Have you tried the Ertiga AT? It has the exact same bhp/torque figures as the XL6, but could feel peppier as it's lighter than its more posh sibling.

The culprit is the gearbox. Manual is noway sluggish but the automatic sure is. And the same characteristics are present in all cars that this gearbox comes in. It is okish from 0-90,but post that it's laboured.

Drive this gearbox back to back with let's say a hyundai or Kia DCT or TC, the difference is like chalk and cheese.

[narayans80]

There are really only 2 candidates you've not tried. That's the Harrier and a Citroen C5. Latter is a gamble as of now. Both have better gearbox engine combination. For a heavy highway usage why are you concerned with dimensions. Besides the automatic gives more confidence in handling bigger dimensions. I've personally experienced this taking an automatic Corolla through narrower streets. The 4500 odd mm were hardly felt

[car_guy1998]

Originally Posted by karanddd

Kia will launch a new Seltos with a better safety rating. They're sure to see sales plummeting sooner or later because of the 3 star rating

Is it true that Kia is launching the Seltos with better safety rating? And, when are they planning to launch it? If this news is true, then I’ll get a Seltos Diesel AT as the replacement for our 10 year old Innova.

[headbanger]

Originally Posted by narayans80

There are really only 2 candidates you've not tried. That's the Harrier and a Citroen C5. Latter is a gamble as of now. Both have better gearbox engine combination. For a heavy highway usage why are you concerned with dimensions. Besides the automatic gives more confidence in handling bigger dimensions. I've personally experienced this taking an automatic Corolla through narrower streets. The 4500 odd mm were hardly felt

Two reasons for a moderate footprint:

1. Wife is also going to drive it. She is a newbie. Don't want to shake her motivation with a big vehicle. I should have added that in my opening post. But the biggest motivation for this purchase is to persuade her to drive.

2. The car will end up as a primary one for substantial period before the next purchase - at least 3 years. The 30 percent city driving involves bumper to bumper traffic.

Harrier and the new XUV700 are definitely highway warriors. Unless I get a smaller automatic first, I can't get either of these.

Truth be told, I have invested 6 months to find any reasonable smaller automatic car. But seems like second hand car prices have gone through a big uptick.

[Axe77]

If you are open to diesel then I think the Sonet Diesel A/T is your top choice in that segment.

Your second choice could be the Sonet Petrol A/T, top of line but mind you its a DCT.

Third choice: I would actually put the MG Astor in case your political leanings are malleable in the interest of the optimum choice.

As an outside contender, depending on your infrastructure as well as the ballpark range of your highway driving, I would say the Nexon EV is also worth putting on that list. While color is a personal preference, I do think the Dark Edition is killer looking.

[Shreyans_Jain]

I will not suggest the Sonet, simply because it is neither wide enough to seat 3 at the back, nor can it be considered safe. It is not crash tested, and Hyundai/Kia’s record on safety in India has been abysmal.

I will also urge you to reconsider the XL6 and S Cross. Speed limits are strictly enforced on all highways connecting Delhi-NCR, and are never more than 100kmph. In that sense, performance at 100+ speeds is a moot point.

Again, my impression of the ZS EV is that the rear bench is not wide enough to seat 3, and the suspension tune isn’t conducive to highway driving. Typically bouncy and unsettled rear. Astor being essentially the same car cannot be significantly better.

XUV700 is too new/unproven to be considered by anyone prioritising peace of mind.

I suggest you choose between the S Cross and Kiger/Magnite. Do test drive the Nexon. It has the AMT, but otherwise it is perfectly suited for your requirements. An offbeat option can be the Mahindra Thar. It seats 4, is proven safe, has an excellent engine and automatic and is well within your budget. It is small enough to be your wife’s daily driver, my wife loved it. Plus, it enjoys excellent resale and will continue to do so for the next few years, demand is so high.

[car_guy1998]

I'd suggest you look at Sonet Diesel AT if you have the budget of 15L and avoid DCT like a plague due to transmission issues and gives lower FE as well.

And, my second option would be S-Cross if you are going for Petrol. Though it's not as powerful as Sonet DCT, it will suffice your requirements with better rear seat space, reliable 1.5 petrol engine and gives better mileage than a DCT.

Avoid Nexon as it has AMT and the leg space in rear is poor though Sonet is also no saint in this.

Or, if you want to stretch the budget, then look for Seltos Diesel AT or Creta Diesel AT only if you are open to Diesels.

[Rajeevraj]

Firstly, a very well thought through and laid out post. Thanks for that. Since you are very clear on what you want and do not want, I don't think you have much of a choice. You want a high seating vehicle, you are clear you don't want a VAG group car, you don't want an AMT. So this basically removes the Kushaq, Taigun, Nexon, XUV300 etc. Peace of mind is most important, so the Renaults and Nissan's are questionable and the MG is new. Maruti does not have a good option in the segment nor does Honda- so two brands associated with peace of mind are out of reckoning.

The only x factor here is the XUV700 which may meet all of your requirements but may need you to swap another car to have a smaller run about. But again need to keep in mind the first iteration of any product will have niggles and we can expect that with the XUV700 too.

While safety is important to you, peace of mind scores higher, so that basically leaves the Creta, Seltos, Venue and Sonet. Together these sell 40-50,000 units a month. You have said you also go with the masses. So I guess there is no need for confusion. Sonet and Venue are smaller and definitely will not meet the 5 seater requirement.

So the winners are clear- Creta or Seltos.

[One]

You comprehensively have listed your options and are well versed with your views on that. But below are my views on some of them.

Originally Posted by headbanger

• Maruti XL6/Maruti S Cross - Too S-L-O-W. Lethargic at best. 0-90kmph tools.

In the city, these are excellent cars, for your wife even more so with excellent visibility all around and wonderful, wonderful low end torque. On the lethargy part, take even a TC of a Hyundai, let's say a 2.0 Elantra/ Alcazar and try flooring it, try a CVT of the Honda City and floor it. In city conditions, the difference between XL6/ SCross vs cars mentioned above will not be discernable unless you take a back to back drive. In fact, I think try driving the Honda City in Eco mode and then drive the two Marutis, you will have a good frame of reference to decide if these really don't need your expectations.

Originally Posted by headbanger

• Kushaq - Can't compromise peace of mind for sake of perceived physical safety..... never ever stall on any road despite their shortcomings

I would not write away the Kushaq/ Taigun just yet if you are not in a rush. Stalling is a big thing, if that continues for another 6-8 months or starts in the Taigun, that's a different story. This is simply based on your urgency to purchase.

Originally Posted by headbanger

Cars in contention (with compromise):
.... Outside chance. Only if push comes to shove- Political overtures for not subscribing to MG.[/list]

These are good enough reasons to drop the options if they are important enough for you.

Originally Posted by headbanger

I simply can't donate peace of mind of ownership - read VAG/Skoda cars. Please don't recommend me these cars, I am not that niche segment intelligentsia. Sit with me and I can explain 100 pros and cons of Maruti cars but can't understand why should I plan my trips with search of RON 95 fuel pumps.

I agree with everything you said, and still reserve my comment above on these cars based on your time duration to purchase.

Originally Posted by headbanger

Tata and Mahindra don't have pure automatics, else I would have bought Nexon or Xuv3OO in a blink. I can raise the budget by 25%, but even then I can't find a car that ticks at least 80% of my requirements.

I have an opinion on AMTs, they are not as bad a made out to be. An experienced driver like you will quickly adjust to right modulation to prevent shuddering. Your wife who you mentioned needs to drive more will have less lugging as compared to a manual till she gets the hang of it. Try taking multiple long drives in the same AMT car and see how fast you adjust to it. These are 5 seaters as well and not 4.5 seaters.

Originally Posted by headbanger

What should I do? Make the purchase and take leap of faith OR sit on the fence.

All I can tell you is how I think - once I decide something is of high importance, everything else is given lesser priority. For e.g. if I want to exclude certain manufacturers due to nation-based leanings, I do not ever consider any alternates from that even if superior ones exist , be it phones/ cars etc. If I consider safety high, I do not get tempted by superior offerings from those stables (for example the brake issues of Creta might be sufficient for me to not consider it even though it is such a great product). Any comprises then made are not compromises for me even if a car drives not as well because I chose that based on my priorities.

Sitting in the fence is fine as well, there are always something coming up. On one hand you have an existing Tata Punch with 5 star rating but unknown niggles released, on the other hand multiple planned releases next year from which you might like like the new Brezza with 6 geared TC which based on news is closer to release than others from their stable.

All the best

[headbanger]

Originally Posted by karanddd

Maybe if you wait a bit, Kia will launch a new Seltos with a better safety rating.

While I wish this to happen, but then it's just a wish. Fingers crossed.

Originally Posted by Axe77

If you are open to diesel then I think the Sonet Diesel A/T is your top choice in that segment.

Your second choice could be the Sonet Petrol A/T, top of line but mind you its a DCT.

Third choice: I would actually put the MG Astor in case your political leanings are malleable in the interest of the optimum choice.

As an outside contender, depending on your infrastructure as well as the ballpark range of your highway driving, I would say the Nexon EV is also worth putting on that list. While color is a personal preference, I do think the Dark Edition is killer looking.

I will get an EV, but at least minimum 3 years from now. I travel on highways and range anxiety will hurt me.

Regarding Astor, the only reason I put it in the contender's list was it somewhat meets my requirement and further not to stick just to Kia/Hyundai twins. While I may have my own reasons, but my in-laws family comes from armed forces (read NSG) background; hence very strong reservations. Long story short, Astor will win if there is a huge difference between Astor and other competitors.

I am thinking for Sonet similar to how you have put it.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

I will also urge you to reconsider the XL6 and S Cross. Speed limits are strictly enforced on all highways connecting Delhi-NCR, and are never more than 100kmph. In that sense, performance at 100+ speeds is a moot point.

I frequent on EPE/WPE and NH44. While you are right about 100kmph barrier, both XL6 and S-Cross are extremely slow. They can't even touch my humble manual Ritz Vxi if I was to bluntly put it. I cannot see myself driving it for next decade.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Do test drive the Nexon. It has the AMT, but otherwise it is perfectly suited for your requirements. An offbeat option can be the Mahindra Thar. It seats 4, is proven safe, has an excellent engine and automatic and is well within your budget. It is small enough to be your wife’s daily driver, my wife loved it. Plus, it enjoys excellent resale and will continue to do so for the next few years, demand is so high.

I have driven Nexon AMT in diesel avatar from Shirdi to Mumbai and back. It's good for what it offers. The problem lies in how these AMTs lurch suddenly in bumper to bumper traffic. I had multiple TDs of Nexon even in petrol, but the problem persists. It's a safety issue in my understanding.

I will try to bait my wife for Thar. A life goal met kind of feeling!!!

Originally Posted by car_guy1998

If you want to stretch the budget, then look for Seltos Diesel AT or Creta Diesel AT only if you are open to Diesels.

I love the 1.5D/6AT combination that Hyundai has put. I haven't driven Creta but have extensively driven Seltos and Sonet. In fact, these cars are only there because of this engine and gearbox combination. I will not put my money on DSG/DCT.

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Firstly, a very well thought through and laid out post.

The only x factor here is the XUV700 which may meet all of your requirements but may need you to swap another car to have a smaller run about. But again need to keep in mind the first iteration of any product will have niggles and we can expect that with the XUV700 too.

While safety is important to you, peace of mind scores higher, so that basically leaves the Creta, Seltos, Venue and Sonet. Together these sell 40-50,000 units a month. You have said you also go with the masses. So I guess there is no need for confusion. Sonet and Venue are smaller and definitely will not meet the 5 seater requirement.

So the winners are clear- Creta or Seltos.

Thanks for the response Rajeev. You read my thought process.

Between Sonet, Creta and Seltos, the only decision that I need to make is if Seltos or Creta give me enough reason to plonk extra 4-5L for the same engine and gearbox (1.5 D and 6AT). None of the three are certified as safe and Sonet on it own is a decent package. I still need to drive Creta to see how much extra do I get vis-a-vis Sonet.

The moment I get in 18L-20L category, the value proposition of XUV7OO just takes over me. I loved every bit of XUV7OO- the problem is its size.

My current ideation is tilting towards Sonet diesel AT and save 4-5L for next car purchase which will be due in next 3 years.

Originally Posted by One

In the city, these are excellent cars, for your wife even more so with excellent visibility all around and wonderful, wonderful low end torque. On the lethargy part, take even a TC of a Hyundai, let's say a 2.0 Elantra/ Alcazar and try flooring it, try a CVT of the Honda City and floor it. In city conditions, the difference between XL6/ SCross vs cars mentioned above will not be discernable unless you take a back to back drive.

Slightly different view point on City CVT. My experience was that it's good enough, definitely not as slow as Marutis. The caveat is that I didn't use Eco mode in City.

Originally Posted by One

I would not write away the Kushaq/ Taigun just yet if you are not in a rush. Stalling is a big thing, if that continues for another 6-8 months or starts in the Taigun, that's a different story. This is simply based on your urgency to purchase.

I can write my heart out for Kushaq but then it will digress the thread. I left the Kushaq thread seeing the lack of objectivity in reasoning.

Skoda/VAG cars have aspirational value- I will give that to them. What I need from them even after discounting the price proposition is predictability. I don't mind paying bigger bills to A.S.S. if I know about it earlier. I have issues with the product itself and value proposition as Skoda is trying to dilute its offering in this particular case.
Unfortunately, this ain't happening with Kushaq and Taigun. Skoda can charge me and I am willing to pay but it has to win my trust first both as a brand as well as the product.
Had it note been for high seating, even the age old Rapid was the best bet.

Originally Posted by One

I have an opinion on AMTs, they are not as bad a made out to be. An experienced driver like you will quickly adjust to right modulation to prevent shuddering. Your wife who you mentioned needs to drive more will have less lugging as compared to a manual till she gets the hang of it. Try taking multiple long drives in the same AMT car and see how fast you adjust to it. These are 5 seaters as well and not 4.5 seaters.

Isn't it sad that both Tata and Mahindra don't have a pureplay auto gearbox under 15L? In short, AMTs work but they can't delight you in their lifetime for the cars in consideration here.

Originally Posted by One

Any comprises then made are not compromises for me even if a car drives not as well because I chose that based on my priorities.

All the best

Thanks for supporting words. Helps me to move forward.

[Mustang Sammy]

Originally Posted by headbanger

Maruti Ciaz / Honda City - Too LOW[/list]

• Maruti XL6/Maruti S Cross - Too S-L-O-W. Lethargic at best. 0-90kmph tools.

While I agree that the S-Cross AT gearbox is slow and outdated, it is a reasonable highway performer. I have driven it many times on highways and it has held it own quite well. The linear response of the engine is good, and believe me it can be a lot of fun wringing out performance from a not very powerful engine.
Safety is another matter entirely. While it does have 4 disc brakes, the car only comes with 2 airbags, and ESP is missing for some inexplicable reason.

[AirbusCapt]

If you can wait for a year or at maximum a year and a half, you must wait for the 5 door Suzuki Jimny.