[Poitive]

Originally Posted by JKBKS

Now on to Kicks. Actually I have always liked Duster for its looks, ride/handling and perfect size (neither small nor large) and would have bought 1.3 ltr turbo Petrol if its interiors were not that dated. Kicks is the same with newer/better interiors. Only issue is with its quirky looks that i cant stand for long. Otherwise there is no issue with Kicks. Its CVT works fine and is no TC but I could have worked with it!!

Originally Posted by Poitive

- Thanks for sharing your experience with the Taigun and Kicks, JKBKS mate.
-----
- I too find the Kicks a little odd looking. More like an expanded hatch. However, if all else works, might just overlook that aspect. How did you find the suspension setup in terms of ride and handling? Any idea how it compares to the old famed Duster's independent suspension setup before they dropped it?

Originally Posted by JKBKS

Duster and Kicks share same underpinnings so their driving behavior is very similar. I like Duster's shape but Kicks more modern interiors. Wish Duster had similar interiors. I then would have easily bought the Duster!! Now theirs news of current Duster being discontinued so there it goes.
----
Just checked and you are right on XUV700 Petrol specs and i will give it a thought but I have a Diesel bias and price diff between similar price and diesel variants (AX5 AT) is only 60k so lets see if could convince myself about this
----
Reg Hector components quality, my friend told me this in passing and i didn't question him further since I was never interested in it ..
----
On another note, I will be getting a comparo done between XUV700, to be launched New Scorpio and the Current Scorpio just to so how much of of difference is between New Scorpio and XUV700 in terms of ride/handling and comfort.

- Without having the luxury of taking many TDs due to Covid and the precautions we're taking, went through videos of Kicks and Duster. I so relate to what you said, JKBKS mate. On a practical level, it is the Duster which seems to be a better body shell design from a use perspective (window lines, glass area, width curve of sides of the body, likely more spacious footwell etc), whereas the interiors of the Kicks are so much better. Spruce up the interiors of the Duster, and it becomes worthy of proper consideration.

The location of the screen of the Duster makes it quite unusable for maps. Something I find hard to come to terms with. Didn't know that the Duster is being discontinued. If so, it would be the final nail in the coffin to consider it.

0 Does the discontinuation of Duster mean that a new gen one will be launched?

0 Mate, didn't mean to say that a petrol should be your choice for the XUV700. Was just a bit surprised considering the figures and your low usage. Most rush to petrols. Few (including me) much prefer diesels.

- Thanks for the info on the Hector.

- "Getting a comparo done" sounds interesting. Who and how do you get it done, man? Please do share the results here as and when.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

- The Diesel engine of the Compass is a gem and will reward you with good response as well as mileage - mine even after 4.5 years is giving 15-16 kmpl and running strong.

- I currently own two of the vehicles in this consideration set and am sharing my ownership threads here for everyone's reference:

While doing my preliminary research and not even having the Compass as a serious contender, had spent time on your Jeep Compass thread. Good to see you on the thread, Behemoth mate. BHPians have good words to say about you.

- 15-16kmpl on the highway, I presume. What is it like in the city? Gurgaon if I remember correctly.

- You are in a unique position owning two in consideration - Compass and Hector. Test drives can rarely compare to ownership experiences.
Two Questions

a) How do you compare the steering feel of the Compass and Hector? How do both of them compare to the Laura you had? (what kind of steering did the Laura have? - sorry, haven't read that report)

b) I had the knee hitting the console issue in the Jeep, and a major factor for me. If you or anyone using your Compass had that issue, were they able to satisfactorily resolve it by any adjustments to the seat etc?

And a third considering Puneet0612's post above:
c) How does the engine feel and acceleration feel between the Compass and Hector?

Allowing myself the indulgence: just in case you feel that comparisons between the two might not be ideally placed in ownership reports, this thread would be a great place for you to share them. We'd love it.

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by Poitive

...

- You are in a unique position owning two in consideration - Compass and Hector. Test drives can rarely compare to ownership experiences.
Two Questions...

Thanks Poitive.
To answer your queries:

1) The mileage of 15-16 is net in mixed use. On highways I typically get 19+ and in city use I get 13 and depending on my mix of both, I tend to get an average of around 16. As an example, my Office is in Noida and my home is in Gurgaon - the distance being 49km one way . In the morning as I leave at 7:15 and reach by 8:20, I hardly get any traffic and the mileage comes to 19-20. However my return is in peak traffic between 5:40-7:40 and I get a mileage around 13, so net for the day averages out somewhere between 16-17

2) The steering feel of the Compass is definitely better and it needs more effort. It also tugs back on you and transmits road feel back to you through the steering. In the Hector is a more assisted and easy to turn (less effort required in city use) but it lacks feedback. For highway use, I like the Compass steering, but for City use, I prefer the Hector steering as you won't get tired easily. My wife also finds the Hector steering easier.
Also, the clutch effort on the Hector is also less than the Compass so that also makes it a bit easier (20% in my opinion)
The Laura also had an amazing hydraulic steering and was the most stable and dynamically tuned out of all the cars we have owned so far. It was much better than either of these cars, but then that was a sedan !

3) The Space in the Jeep is at a premium and in terms of interior space and volume, it is fine for short drivers, but people with larger frames will find it hard. The roof is also not all that high so if a tall person has to drive it, they will need to recline the seat quite a bit and it will not be comfortable to sit behind them. On the other hand the interior space is one of Hector's biggest strengths and you will not find it lacking in headroom, width or legroom (barring third row) or even the bootspace , which is quite large. It is significantly larger than the Compass's boot space (you can see the physical measurements on my thread on boot space measurements)

4) the engine and gearbox in the Hector is the Bs6 version of the Compass one (which was Bs4). In the transition from Bs4 to BS6, they have made the torque curve more linear so it feels only a bit slower.
However, one point on NVH and perception. The Hector has better NVH control than the Compass (even compared to the new Compass) and the engine noise is damped better in the Hector. What the Compass sounds at 60kmph to the Driver. the Hector actually sounds at 70kmph.
In real world tests, I feel that the Hector would not be more than a second slower than the Compass in 0-100 as it is slightly heavier and also has a Drag coefficient disadvantage (it is much taller).

Hector Diesel does the 0-100 in 12.07 sec (based on Speedo display - this is not with professional Vbox, actual might be around 12.5 sec)

Jeep Compass Diesel manual (Bs4) which does it in 11.52 seconds (Speedo display)

(This is based on other people's Videos on Youtube - I am not including Links to those videos as these are reckless drivers and it is not aligned with Team-Bhp's spirit of safe driving)

In my personal usage of both, I did not feel the Hector slow, but I did feel it to be more gradual instead of sudden.
The Diesel engine of the Laura was another level though and even though it was just 110ps and 250Nm tourque, it could do 0-100 in less than 10 seconds and the torque rush that it gave in 3rd gear right from 30kmph to 100kmph was just unmatched. It also had the right gear ratios to extract that torque perfectly. But sadly Diesels from that generation of Skoda / VW/ Audi cars are gone now. Also inspite of being very thrilling to drive, it was very frugal and it used to return a Net Mileage of 19kmpl (16 in city and 24 on highways!)

[JKBKS]

Originally Posted by Poitive

- Does the discontinuation of Duster mean that a new gen one will be launched?

0 Mate, didn't mean to say that a petrol should be your choice for the XUV700. Was just a bit surprised considering the figures and your low usage. Most rush to petrols. Few (including me) much prefer diesels.

- "Getting a comparo done" sounds interesting. Who and how do you get it done, man? Please do share the results here as and when.

I sincerely hope that Renault looks at the booming midsize SUV segment and launch their new gen Duster here. They already have a customer base here and will get repeat customers.

I too prefer Diesels but given my less than 200km/month usage, which will be the case till next few years for sure, I am considering going for XUV700 Petrol now. But another issue here is AX5 Petrol AT does not have ESP but Diesel version has it!! Strange. Or I will wait for other upcoming SUVs (new Scorpio/ Jimny/ Honda RS 200/Toyota-Maruti Collab included) since I have no pressing need right now. I like the upcoming 5 door Gurkha too but it does not have AT!!

Reg the comparo, no one other than a Mahindra guy can better do it so have got hold of one!! Let's see how it goes

[Puneet0612]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Mates,

A quick note: While starting the replies, just checked something about the Nissan Kicks and drifted onto cursory check on many pages. Sharing some quick thoughts I am pondering upon:

.

Thanks a bunch Poitive. Seeing that response is what reinvigorates my faith in this community as against making a decision based on conversations with friends and advisors. Here's a bit more info, that I think may make my stand clearer. After reading your response, I realised I should bhave added those bits.

-I drove a Hector and it's plus edition both and found the power delivery varying slightly in comparison to the Jeep, but it was definitely unmissable. Guess the kerb weight plays it's role there too.

-I did drive the XUV petrol but, IMHO, I think Mahindra has pushed the BHP's to peak capacity in the 2.0 engine and the engine may start showing signs of wearing out quicker than we think. But that's just my estimate and could be completely off. Also, since I've sold my car already, I can't wait that long for XUV, automatic or MT.

-As far as the Harrier is concerned, I only have one silly doubt that remains, an outcome of hearsay honestly.

Someone who has a Harrier and has driven 50k, says the cabin just got too noisy, like it used to in cars of the olden days. While I am not sure about how this person drives, the doubt has taken seed in my mind sadly.

This is the first time I am trying to make a shift to TATA. I know that the TATA of today is a far evolved and improved version of what it used to be 15 years ago.

But, is there a way to know, if after 50k the cabin would not sound like the car was going to come off?

I now drive peacefully within the city, am careful on the broken patches and only go a little high on the driving joy on the highway.

Thanks again for being so prompt

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

Thanks Poitive.
To answer your queries:
------
The Diesel engine of the Laura was another level though and even though it was just 110ps and 250Nm tourque, it could do 0-100 in less than 10 seconds and the torque rush that it gave in 3rd gear right from 30kmph to 100kmph was just unmatched. It also had the right gear ratios to extract that torque perfectly. But sadly Diesels from that generation of Skoda / VW/ Audi cars are gone now. Also inspite of being very thrilling to drive, it was very frugal and it used to return a Net Mileage of 19kmpl (16 in city and 24 on highways!)

Thanks Behemoth, for the detail and clarity with which you answered each of the points. It further puts things in perspective. Very helpful.

Coming from the ~320Nm ~120bhp Optra Magnum, I really do relate to what you say. I only tried and focused on diesels mainly due to that. Nothing seems to compare in terms of that power delivery, which makes getting the next vehicle difficult, further complicated by my size and ergonomic needs. Laura/Octavia felt sharper, and more fun to drive, while the Optra more cushy - the real wizadary of Skoda was in being able to get those FE figures. I typically got 12-13 on the Optra Magnum on city runs, with very little bumper to bumper traffic.

The FE of the Compass too seems impressive. I imagine only about 1kmpl lesser on the Hector owing to the weight and drag (IIRC tyres are similar).

Originally Posted by Puneet0612

Thanks a bunch Poitive. Seeing that response is what reinvigorates my faith in this community ...

-I drove a Hector and it's plus edition both and found the power delivery varying slightly in comparison to the Jeep, but it was definitely unmissable. Guess the kerb weight plays it's role there too.

-... I think Mahindra has pushed the BHP's to peak capacity in the 2.0 engine and the engine may start showing signs of wearing out quicker than we think.
- ... since I've sold my car already, I can't wait that long for XUV, automatic or MT.

-As far as the Harrier is concerned, I only have one silly doubt that remains, an outcome of hearsay honestly.

- I now drive peacefully within the city, am careful on the broken patches and only go a little high on the driving joy on the highway.

Most welcome, mate. This is a wonderful community, and responds wonderfully to polite warm ways. Please see the effort @udhaw has gone through.

I wonder if you noticed that I asked Behemoth a question for your needs and he has replied in much detail. Do see it. In fact, I once again suggest you go through the TDs in the beginning and this whole thread. It is likely to be time well spent. Also the thread on taking test drives. I expect it would be helpful in case you plan to take more test drives.

- Kerb weight surely makes a difference (which is why I encouraged you to try the non-plus version), as does the tyre pressure, tyre size and choice, tuning of the engine (ECU maps etc), aerodynamics, and friction of the many parts in a vehicle, and many other details.

- XUV700: We can't say whether or not it is peak, and even if it were, it has little chance of being used at this peak in a sustained manner for the average or even demanding user. However since the wait times are unacceptable, let us not spend time on this one, unless you are impressed enough to buy an interim vehicle (also discussed in this thread earlier).

- While Tata vehicles are usually rugged, they are considered niggle free and I too have a bit of a concern about NVH increasing significantly over it's lifetime. Hector felt way better here. (again, check the conversation with Behemoth). To get a realistic picture, worth spending time on the Harrier and Safari Official review threads, and also on ownership reviews.

All the best, and keep us posted on the progress of your decision and your drive impressions (however brief or detailed) when you TD.

Originally Posted by udhaw

- Thank you for your time and putting things to perspective. I read your comment and created another video on NVH Level.

- I agree with you. After creating the video, I did drive the manual Harrier XT+ variant, which belongs to a gym buddy. What I noticed is that he had kept the seats slightly higher than what I would. And also that the clutch travel distance was way longer than I had in my Verna. But then again, it came to the same thing, I adjusted the seat and I was good to go. That friend now says he had difficulty for a few days as the knee would rub. Like me, he also came from Honda City (a sedan)

You're welcome, mate; and thank you for making all the effort and time for making the video. It did give a sense of difference between the City Mode (lower RPMs) and Sports Mode (higher RPMs). One can only make out so much from a phone video as the mic sensitivity changes and other variables.

Do you find it much nosier and rougher than the Verna? I imagine it to be so. Just some words explaining your experience would be good, mate.

Your and very much your friend's experience is interesting. I did try quite a lot in my second TD (the Safari that time) but could not find a suitable position. Based only on your remarks, if I happen to be close to a Tata Showroom after the Covid wave subsides, will surely check the cabin again, keeping the seat at it's lowest.

Originally Posted by JKBKS

- I sincerely hope that Renault looks at the booming midsize SUV segment and launch their new gen Duster here.

- Or I will wait for other upcoming SUVs (new Scorpio/ Jimny/ Honda RS 200/Toyota-Maruti Collab included) since I have no pressing need right now. I like the upcoming 5 door Gurkha too but it does not have AT!!

- Reg the comparo, no one other than a Mahindra guy can better do it so have got hold of one!! Let's see how it goes

- Me too!
- Do keep us posted. That is an interesting list. The 5 Door Gurkha would be an interesting beast. In case you aren't aware, there is a wonderful ownership review of the 3 door Gurkha by @Manuuj here
- And again, do keep us posted.

[JKBKS]

[quote=Poitive;5238250

- Me too!
- Do keep us posted. That is an interesting list. The 5 Door Gurkha would be an interesting beast. In case you aren't aware, there is a wonderful ownership review of the 3 door Gurkha
- And again, do keep us posted. [/QUOTE]

I have read Gurkha reviews and like its shape as well. I can work with the new 3 door version too as it has the 2nd row captain seats and a back door for entry but lack of AT is a deal breaker.

Will let you know when i get the comparo

[cavenkat]

Dear Puneet,

Undoubtedly Harrier is a superior product compared to Hector. Just compare the looks to the Hector (no comparision at all). If you go for a Dark edition the vehicle turns many heads on the road.

Also Harrier offers a fantastic Engine & Auto box combo which i can safely say is the best in the business.

The driveability and handling of the harrier is most superior. The mechanics are beautifully sorted out. The XTA version also comes with Panoramic Sunroof.

All the important bases are firmly covered. So the only trade off is the interiors which are classy but the Hector gives you added features.

As far as the sales and service my experience with TATA motors service is that they may not most efficient but they are friendly and earnest solve any issues which may arise. The TATA motors service centers are there in every nook and corner of the country unlike Hector service centers which are located in Metros only.

I am able to give the above feedback from my experience of owning/driving a TATA Safari 2021 for around 12,000 kms till date and i am a very happy/satisfied cutomer.

[morphique]

Originally Posted by Puneet0612

So dear fellas, help me make this decision between a manual diesel Hector top model and the XTA+ Harrier.

Waiting on your most valuable inputs. Thanks for reading

Test driven both. IMHO:

Hector for comfort over fun-to-drive factor. Quality interiors and features (great feeling when inside the vehicle), minimal niggles (less visits to service center), less chances of developing rattles as per some long term ownership reviews. More suited for relaxed driving on the highway.

Harrier may have average interiors and it is low on features, it does have niggles and there's scope of developing rattles long-term, but it's AT (check out the Sports mode ) is a win over Hector manual - combined with it's high speed characteristics / stability on the highway make it a seriously good fun-to-drive SUV. XTA+ is great, except for the abysmal reverse camera quality - which seems to be a decade old, if not two.

Both have great build quality (check out the heavy doors and bonnet) and similar kerb weight.

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

The Laura also had an amazing hydraulic steering and was the most stable and dynamically tuned out of all the cars we have owned so far. It was much better than either of these cars, but then that was a sedan !

The Laura came with EPS itself AFAIK. The weight and feel of the steering and it's brilliant tuning(no great feedback though) makes one think it's hydraulic.

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

The Laura came with EPS itself AFAIK. The weight and feel of the steering and it's brilliant tuning(no great feedback though) makes one feel it's hydraulic.

Thanks for the correction Bibendum. Honestly it felt so precise and connected that I always thought it must be hydraulic
It was an amazing car and most enjoyable to drive.

[darthvader001]

While it has a lot of features, the interiors don't look like an upgrade from my i20, honestly. If I am spending around 22-23 lakhs on a car, the interiors should have felt better. My wife, especially, isn't convinced on the interiors on this variant as well and stretching to 25 for the XZA+ isn't possible for me.

So now I am in a complete dilemma over which car to buy.

I am inclined towards Harrier for the ride quality and I know this car is going to be a tank on the highway. But
then, Hector and XUV are both feature loaded as well as decent performers. Even the cars in a segment below have tidier features. Since I'll have this car for 5-6 years in the least, I fear I'll keep feeling like I bought an iphone11 because it was cheap when iphone13 is already 5g enabled.

I don't have issues buying a diesel car in NCR because I personally feel, as long as trucks continue to be the backbone of our economy and as long as Indian farming depends on tractors, diesel cars will exist. I am in any case staking the next 6 years, after which I'll most likely switch to an EV.

need a car yesterday because I sold off my i20 three months ago and need a car of my own for various things that me and the missus still need to step out for regularly.

So dear fellas, help me make this decision between a manual diesel Hector top model and the XTA+ Harrier.

Actually you've summarized the main points nicely for both the cars based on your opinion. It is a matter of your decision now based on your need and usage. Apparently for both the cars there are hits and misses so the car which has more hits in your view should tilt your decision towards it. Also if your partner needs Automatic in the diesel then Hector doesn't have it so this also makes an point for your decision.

My 2 cents on this - I bought Hector for its features, visual ergonomics and convenience than the Engine performance, cornering or body roll etc. Because I'm for sure going to use this car for my family outings where I will be more sedated (considering my 2 kids in the back seat), no speeding in the corners meaning no body roll, no speeding above 120 (because as soon as my wife hears the 120 kmph chimes she also gives me Chimes :-) ).
Our main requirement was for an excellent music, able to check car location/status anytime, spacious cabin & boot, 3 point seat belt for rear middle passenger and no floor hump in the rear. So Hector ticked in all these.

Conclusion - go with your primary need in the car and other needs will be secondary, though you shall miss them but you won't regret because your primary need is satisfied.

[Poitive]

Nissan Kicks

Originally Posted by shancz

1. It does but wouldn't the heavier and diesel cars would be more concerned about the torque to weight ratio ?
3. It will, the way he was accelerating I expect single digits.
4. Yes, a steep uphill right hander in the mountains will be tricky for a tall person.
5. Performance wise maybe, but it still misses out on the feel, reminds of the Nexon in design theme and size(could be slightly larger but Nexon top end looks way more butch especially the dark edition).

1. Torque to weight ratio would play a significant role in the lower RPMs, I believe. What I heard from the reviews was that it has a good mid-range, and that matters more to me, as it allows one to enjoy a car easily and often - it being in or close to the range one is normally driving at.

3. I don't expect to drive like that regularly mate. Just once in a while, and knowing that one can when needed, at a tap, adds to the joy.

4. A good point which I had missed and adds to the conclusion. Thanks.

5. It has a larger wheelbase than the Compass. Comparable power/weight and torque/weight figures, and the peak torque starting at a much lower RPM (at least on paper). I was focusing on those who liked the Compass driving experience and didn't wish to spend as much. The suspension and chassis has been much appreciated on it's cousin the Duster. It also has an HPS - a dying breed of cars (no idea how good it feels on this one though). On paper at least, seems like one worth checking in such a case.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

EPS is better now, the hydraulic steering in Kicks is a clue as to why that vehicle is an old duster in a new suit. Not something you would want to buy in 2022. If you are a prospective buyer for a new car, look at the overall performance and value it brings to your specific use case rather than individual bits and pieces.

Kicks did not sell because it's no match for the Korean twins , even in terms of performance. Seltos and Creta are incredibly fast.

Of course, I look at the overall performance and value, Kosfactor mate. I thought it might have been obvious from the Guide to Effective Test Drives I created (IIRC you had replied there before this post, and assumed that you'd read it). Also, value means very different things to different people. Eg: our tastes about HPS and EPS are a bit different (based on our small exchanges on different threads).

As for buying an 'outdated' car, the Optra referred to numerous times in this thread was purchased in 2011, when it was already considered a 'dead car' by most; and so for a very many years then already. Sold in poor numbers. I valued what it brought to the table for me, and have had a very rewarding decade with it. ~320Nm, ~120bhp, all wheel independent suspension (rear being multilink), all 4 disc, 2 litre engine at a price comparable to the 1.3-1.6 litre in the segment, absolutely fantastic ride, good (not nimble) handling, extremely well composed at high speeds, and well designed machine overall. And yes, it had a good HPS! That it was not a popular choice made it sell at a lower price.

A car popular and it suiting one's needs is very different. If one's tastes are different from the bulk of the buyers, the chances of finding value in something not so popular increase significantly. Optra being a case in point. The decision process and a lot more are well documented in the 3 threads linked in the first post.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Power to weight ratio does not guarantee a faster vehicle , what if the gearing is wrong? What if the clutch is very heavy? What if there is a revv limiter in first gear? What if the ESP does not let you floor it? What if the engine itself is slow to pick up the revvs? There are too many variables.

Most of those points were mentioned for Kicks in most of the reviews I saw. For me, it is the midrange torque, and good torque from a lower RPM which matters more, and that is exactly what the Kicks was reported to have. Incidentally, many found the clutch of the Optra heavy, and it never bothered me; heavy clutches rarely do to me. The engine was pretty quick to pick pace in the quoted video, and that is one thing I found attractive.

Difficult to find guarantees based on paper specs and reviews. I care little for the in-gear acceleration figures often talked about. I have found power/weight and torque to weight ratios and the spread of torque to be good indicators. Unlike the earlier years, torque curves are difficult to find; they added value too.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

It was a trick by certain manufacturers to give a tall 1-2 gears to say that vehicle is powerful enough to reach 100kmph in 2nd gear , we know that in real life it means an absolutely terrible vehicle to drive in Indian traffic. There are many things like this to entice a prospective buyer, it's a wonder sometimes a customer ends up with the right car.

Rather than a trick, I see it as a different design choice. It works for some, and doesn't for others. The Optra too had a tall second gear and would fly to 80kmph, but never felt lacking. I really enjoyed those gear ratios. Regular feel 1st; tall second; and thereon regular stuff. The spread of torque across a large band made it effortless to drive it - both in the city and the highway. Incidentally, I got better FE figures than most reported (typical was 10.5-11 or so in the city for others, I usually got 12-13; at times even close to 14, when on more leisurely drives at night).

I had written a small section on gears in the above mentioned guide too, mate

~~~~~~~~

Originally Posted by Poitive

7. Another potential deal breaker (had seen on another video long back) - for a tall person the top of the glass (windshield and windows) might be too low.

Based on this point, and further what Shancz said about uphill driving, and further what I saw in this video, it seems the top of the glass line would be unacceptably low for someone like me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Ozn45rUGU

Screenshot from the video. The top of glass line seems too low:

Seems the Nissan Kicks is not for me.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Poitive

- On paper at least, seems like one worth checking in such a case.

- If one's tastes are different from the bulk of the buyers, the chances of finding value in something not so popular increase significantly.

- Seems the Nissan Kicks is not for me.

- Agree, the numbers are impressive and the lineage is good, the 1.3 Turbo would outperform a lot of other engines in real world conditions. Thanks for pointing out the Kicks, had never considered it from a performance perspective.

- True and like you said well priced. Sadly those options are shrinking.

- Yes and sadly your SUV is still elusive.

On the video these are the two guys I use as a benchmark to see how any car would fit you.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Rather than a trick, I see it as a different design choice. It works for some, and doesn't for others. The Optra too had a tall second gear and would fly to 80kmph, but never felt lacking. I really enjoyed those gear ratios. Regular feel 1st; tall second; and thereon regular stuff.

It's good to hear that you enjoyed your Optra, it was too delicate for our use and racked up a lot of expenses. The leather seats and sunroof was cool though.

The petrol optra wasn't geared like this at all, it was very driveable at low speeds in higher gear. Even the Tavera was geared properly for our traffic. Later on when Optra diesel showed up, Chevrolet changed tactics and advertised it for its super quick 0-100 time and nearly 200 kmph top speed. This was Chevrolet's premium luxury car those days, so it was out of character too.

I doubt if there is any 2.0 MJD in India that has a well sorted MT , similar case with 1.5 DCi 110 as well. Apart from being difficult to drive in traffic they also wear out the clutch and brakes quickly while offering lower fuel economy as well.