[Vedantoyota75]

Hello Sagar,

From your given options, Innova Crysta can be the best investment of your hard earned money. It gives you everything - comfortable for all 7-8 people on board, you won’t get tired of driving even if you drive it for a thousand kilometres at a stretch, bullet proof reliability and peaceful ownership experience. Coming to the features, yes, one can’t deny the lack of some features in the Innova compared to cars in the same price range, but the Innova isn’t the car for features. If you want a tech savvy car, XUV7OO is the one.

Innova is all about comfort. Even the third row is as comfortable as the 1st and 2nd row. One can not deny the fact that it’s a little expensive for what it offers, but you are going to get the investment recovered at the time of resale. Coming to your point of high running cost, what I can say is you already have a beater car. You can assign the Innova as the weekend car or the car for trips and long drives. About the steering, it would take a while for you to get used to the car’s hydraulic steering because for a while you were driving a car with EPS. But it's not a big issue. Once you’re used to it there’s no problem. Coming to a conclusion, the Innova suits your given criteria and having owned 4 of them over a period of time and none of them being driven less than 2 Lakhs kilometres, I can say that the Innova won’t let you down whatsoever. Hope this helps. Looking forward to your next car

[heydj]

I have very unreliable Skoda rapid tdi 2015 model that has sucked lot of my money. I am looking to replace it and have few queries.

1. My driving is very less, 400kms max per month. So should i even buy new car or just keep rapid for occasional high need use and rest use Uber?
2. Rapid would need selling of due to diesel in NCR thing so sell now or keep till 8th year i.e. next year?
3. If i were to buy a new car then should it be AT or MT? Low usage but who knows about future. One thing i do know in future i will get driver.
4. I know i want to buy a Petrol SUV but which one as reliability is primary focus with good engine specs. Budget upto 20L OTR can be stretched but don’t want to.

SUV that i have been thinking about:

- Thar Petrol MT/AT - is it reliable and can be kept for 15 years? Space is not an issue as its only going to be 2 people mostly.
- XUV 700 Petrol MT/AT - again is it reliable in petrol?
- Jeep Compass MT/AT - is Jeep another Skoda? Or MT will be reliable?
- Hyundai Alcazar - MT/AT - is it good?


Please suggest. I am very confused on whether to even buy new car or not with low use and to get MT or AT. I know i will probably need a car as i like going for drives however not sure.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by heydj

know i will probably need a car as i like going for drives however not sure.

The words in bold indicate that no definite plans and hence a very low and irregular usage pattern.

No point buying something new and then subjecting it to the same usage while paying higher insurance.

If you're mentally done with the car then sell it off and get something which can handle your use case better.
IMO explore the used cars option as well.

MT/AT is a person preference but since you would keep a driver then stick to MT and reliability.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by heydj

I have very unreliable Skoda rapid tdi 2015 model that has sucked lot of my money. I am looking to replace it and have few queries.

1. My driving is very less, 400kms max per month. So should i even buy new car or just keep rapid for occasional high need use and rest use Uber?
2. Rapid would need selling of due to diesel in NCR thing so sell now or keep till 8th year i.e. next year?
3. If i were to buy a new car then should it be AT or MT? Low usage but who knows about future. One thing i do know in future i will get driver.
4. I know i want to buy a Petrol SUV but which one as reliability is primary focus with good engine specs. Budget upto 20L OTR can be stretched but don’t want to.
--------
Please suggest. I am very confused on whether to even buy new car or not with low use and to get MT or AT. I know i will probably need a car as i like going for drives however not sure.

Mate,

1. With only 400kms/month, it might be difficult to financially justify a car with all the depreciation, repairs and maintenance, insurance etc expenses. An Uber/Ola would be cheaper, I suppose. The answer would depend on 'why' you need or want a car. In times of Covid, having a reliable car and not depending on cabs seems like a good idea.

2. In some senses, now may be a good time to sell, as the prices of used are high. Also considering rising input costs and chip shortage induced reduced supply, new car prices are rapidly increasing. Waiting might mean increased cost of replacement of the Rapid.

3. Since you are to have a driver, MT seems to be suitable. Much also depends on what you enjoy. Going by your consideration of buying a Thar even if you were to be driven (in an older post), you do value the fun factor. See what you enjoy driving and feel connected to, mate. I can't see myself enjoying an AT (convenience is a different matter).

4. You mentioned 15 years. In the rapidly changing world, it might be a better idea to spend a bit lesser (if you get a suitable option) and go for shorter time spans: probably 8-9 years each. If it works well for you, you could stretch it further. That would also open the diesel world for you, to sell well before the 10 year rule in Delhi.

Might be a good idea to discuss specific cars, after the basic criteria is more clear.

PS: In case an XUV700 is seriously on the cards, you might want to book and forget it, given the insane waiting times it has.

~~~~~~~

Originally Posted by shancz

On the video these are the two guys I use as a benchmark to see how any car would fit you.

Though the guy is taller and heftier than me, he becomes a good reference due to the top half being similar (though I am a bit less, am more fussy about crouching, headroom and posture). I really do appreciate you taking as much interest as you have, Shancz mate. Thanks. Not that I had any doubts, the above further cements the one quoted below

Originally Posted by shancz

Honestly I am almost as interested as you are in which car you end up getting. This is turning out to be quite a hunt.

~~~~~~~

Originally Posted by shancz

- Agree, the numbers are impressive and the lineage is good, the 1.3 Turbo would outperform a lot of other engines in real world conditions. Thanks for pointing out the Kicks, had never considered it from a performance perspective.

You're welcome. At least on paper, it comes across as an interesting one to consider for someone after practical driving pleasure and values an HPS.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

- The petrol optra wasn't geared like this at all, it was very driveable at low speeds in higher gear. Even the Tavera was geared properly for our traffic. Later on when Optra diesel showed up, Chevrolet changed tactics and advertised it for its super quick 0-100 time and nearly 200 kmph top speed. This was Chevrolet's premium luxury car those days, so it was out of character too.

- I doubt if there is any 2.0 MJD in India that has a well sorted MT , similar case with 1.5 DCi 110 as well. Apart from being difficult to drive in traffic they also wear out the clutch and brakes quickly while offering lower fuel economy as well.

- The petrol Optra was very different from the later iteration of Optra Magnum Diesel - the chassis was reinforced, changes in suspension, of course the engine, and the interiors. Though they looked nearly identical from outside, they were very different cars to drive and experience. It is the bad name that Optra got due to the Petrol one which pushed them to sell the Diesel gem at a low price. More on that in this decade old post by @khoj, and related threads mentioned earlier.
- Had no difficulty in traffic. Cluth replacements have been very rare for us (not replaced in the Optra either) I guess it is about the driving style, maintenance, and the good fortune we've had to not have much bumper to bumper traffic.

As it is getting totally OT let us avoid this part of the conversation further, mate.

~~~~~~~

Originally Posted by morphique

Test driven both.

Very nicely summed up the Hector and Harrier, mate!

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Though the guy is taller and heftier than me, he becomes a good reference due to the top half being similar (though I am a bit less, am more fussy about crouching, headroom and posture).

Check out their video on the S-Cross. I am looking if it's workable as a stop gap car until something appealing comes along, without risking TDs.
Worst case at least will get a visual reference of how your frame fits, for other cars.

Specifically pointing at the interior space here at 1:40 onwards, does that work for you ?

Credits to Providers :

Man and Motor : S-Cross

[heydj]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Mate,

1. With only 400kms/month, it might be difficult to financially justify a car with all the depreciation, repairs and maintenance, insurance etc expenses. An Uber/Ola would be cheaper, I suppose. The answer would depend on 'why' you need or want a car. In times of Covid, having a reliable car and not depending on cabs seems like a good idea.

2. In some senses, now may be a good time to sell, as the prices of used are high. Also considering rising input costs and chip shortage induced reduced supply, new car prices are rapidly increasing. Waiting might mean increased cost of replacement of the Rapid.

3. Since you are to have a driver, MT seems to be suitable. Much also depends on what you enjoy. Going by your consideration of buying a Thar even if you were to be driven (in an older post), you do value the fun factor. See what you enjoy driving and feel connected to, mate. I can't see myself enjoying an AT (convenience is a different matter).

4. You mentioned 15 years. In the rapidly changing world, it might be a better idea to spend a bit lesser (if you get a suitable option) and go for shorter time spans: probably 8-9 years each. If it works well for you, you could stretch it further. That would also open the diesel world for you, to sell well before the 10 year rule in Delhi.

Might be a good idea to discuss specific cars, after the basic criteria is more clear.

PS: In case an XUV700 is seriously on the cards, you might want to book and forget it, given the insane waiting times it has.

~~~~~~~

I am not sure how to do inline quote responses so going point by point.

1.
-I am a very outgoing person and in winters its fine to use auto/bus 11 however come summer months and itch to drive would start. Mostly city driving.
- Also due to Skoda’s unreliability i never had confidence of venturing on outstation trips. This needs to be rectified.

2.
-Will sell only after getting new car in garage. So choice of new vehicle is important here. However I might sell earlier too, don’t know.

3.
-I am ok with both MT & AT. Its not about driving pleasure as DSG when it works is beautiful. Question is with moderate to light driving to get MT or AT. Sensible choice is what.
-Driver will enter picture mostly for outstation trips.

4.
- 15 year thing is set in my mind. Cannot keep buying cars all my life, have other interests like trip to Antarctica to finance
- I would have retained Rapid if it was reliable and petrol. I have swift in house going strong in 13th year. Will sell at last and probably in scrap.

Hence if i were to buy then like my original post need reliable petrol SUV (new not pre-owned for sure)

- Thar Petrol MT/AT. MT/AT which will be more reliable? If AT is reliable then AT and if MT then MT. Also is Mahindra Petrol engine reliable. Finally space is not a concern as its always going to be just 2 people in car.
- XUV Petrol 700 MT/AT - same question as above. In XUV will get MX as its MT and VFM and AX3 if its AT. I have no requirement for things like sunroof / ADAS etc.
- Alcazar Petrol MT/AT - whichever is more reliable.
-Jeep Compass Petrol MT/AT - this is wifes consideration however i think Jeep is just another Skoda in terms of unreliability.
- Any other reliable Petrol SUV? Creta is out as cousin has it and Sletos is out as just dont like the look.


Please help in shortlisting a Petrol SUV. Budget is max 20L OTR. I need something like Swift that is reliable.

Many thanks in advance.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by heydj

Please help in shortlisting a Petrol SUV. Budget is max 20L OTR. I need something like Swift that is reliable.

* With 15 years in mind and reliability, would mainly be looking at Totota, Maruti and Hyundai. Toyota, especially, for it's reliability, and the other two as a mix of reliability and their still being around in India after 15 years with reasonable certainly.

* Mahindra and Tata, though much improved, I'd think twice if I was to commit to 15 years. That is one concern I have about the XUV700 and Harrier in my 8-9 year span too.

* Innova? With 400kms/month, one could look at a petrol one.

* As shancz said, with your needs, an MT would probably be the better option due to reliability in general.

I hope others reading the thread will also pitch in with their views. Likely to be more valuable than what I've been able to add.

PS: I would feel reluctant moving to Jeep with a 15 year horizon; also considering your outstation trips being curtailed due to Skoda's unreliability.

Originally Posted by shancz

Check out their video on the S-Cross. I am looking if it's workable as a stop gap car until something appealing comes along, without risking TDs.

Thanks, mate.

* I really focus on the other guy (Ravi) for benchmarks. What is comfortable headroom for a typical 6' person tends to run short for me. The shorter fellow has just enough at the rear.

* I'm really avoiding an interim situation. It would come up if one was fixated on XUV700. Being a car less has been quite manageable due to Covid, but that can change.

Had it not been for Covid, would've gone ahead for a TD of the S-Cross mainly due to the love you've shown for it. If the 1.6 Diesel was available new, it would've been on the list for it's 320Nm.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by heydj

need something like Swift that is reliable.

If you want a new SUV, petrol and reliability is paramount then the safest options are available from the MSIL stable which will give you an experience that you're used to from the Swift.

- S-Cross MT/AT : Do check out the video in my previous post, that's the Alpha version. TD before discounting.
- Brezza MT/AT : wait for the new update launching soon if interested.
- XUV300 P MT : Since bootspace isn't a concern but would advice against the AMtT. Excellent car, do TD before discounting
- Nexon P MT: the ubiquitous option can't recommend the AMT though,
- Creta/Alcazar/others : good options but you've already reasoned.

Good Luck

Originally Posted by Poitive

* I really focus on the other guy (Ravi) for benchmarks. What is comfortable headroom for a typical 6' person tends to run short for me. The shorter fellow has just enough at the rear.

* I'm really avoiding an interim situation..

Had it not been for Covid, would've gone ahead for a TD of the S-Cross mainly due to the love you've shown for it. If the 1.6 Diesel was available new, it would've been on the list for it's 320Nm.

- Got it, that's what I thought
- makes sense and especially since the 700 didn't measure up let's see what this year brings.

S-Cross, in your case the engine requirements aren't going to be met so the Transformer isn't winning this
The next gen is similar in space but a lot of ifs and buts on its estimated launch and powertrain options but no ETA.

Like I have said earlier, yours will be an interesting find.

[heydj]

Originally Posted by shancz

If you want a new SUV, petrol and reliability is paramount then the safest options are available from the MSIL stable which will give you an experience that you're used to from the Swift.

- S-Cross MT/AT : Do check out the video in my previous post, that's the Alpha version. TD before discounting.
- Brezza MT/AT : wait for the new update launching soon if interested.
- XUV300 P MT : Since bootspace isn't a concern but would advice against the AMtT. Excellent car, do TD before discounting
- Nexon P MT: the ubiquitous option can't recommend the AMT though,
- Creta/Alcazar/others : good options but you've already reasoned.

Good Luck

I have done a TD of Scross and it was not fun to drive, Rapid for all its faults has really good drive with very planted stance even at triple digit speeds. Especially in sports mode. However i will do another TD of Scross.

Same level of fun drive in reliable petrol SUV is sought. I would have booked Mahindra Thar/ Xuv 700 but not sure if it has reliable petrol engine.

Also Jeep Compass AT is DCT and i am not buying DCT or DSG in India ever. However is MT Compass petrol reliable. I have read many blogs however all talk about AT performance.

Innova has a taxi image no two ways about it else would haven given a thought. Also never driven, is it fun to drive.

I drive very less and only drive for pleasure and to listen to trance music hence fun to drive is little important (not very).

[shancz]

Originally Posted by heydj

- Mahindra Thar/ Xuv 700 but not sure if it has reliable petrol engine.

- is MT Compass petrol reliable.

- fun to drive is little important (not very).

- Both are new cars and unless they actually spend those years in service no definite way to tell that.
But taking an educated guess that a Mahindra won't end up with expensive repairs and should enjoy good support from Mahindra.

- No idea on the petrol Compass though.

- Makes sense on the FTD factor. In that case skip the S-Cross and TD thr XUV300 P MT

[Poitive]

An interesting comparison: XUV700 Petrol vs Safari Diesel.
(Hindi)

The part at 13:42 mentions the knee-console issue in the Safari.

https://youtu.be/9z-lylVpv-k?t=821

[Poitive]

Hi Sagar, I hope you've been checking the thread. Some replies are such, that they wouldn't send you an alert.

Originally Posted by Sagar.Agarwal

2. Innova Crysta GX AT
Pros-One car for all. Buy it and don’t have to think of a new car for at least 7 to 8 years. Reliable and comfortable for all. I might even undertake more road trips if I buy this car.
Cons- Running costs with single digit mileage in city.
Cumbersome to drive in city. (Although it’s a matter of getting used to).
Spartan Interiors and lack of upmarket feel inside than the competition. On road price in pune is around 25 lakhs now. This would be on loan so will turn out even more expensive with interest. I am also considering buying an electric scooter for errands so the running costs would likely be balanced.
-------
Other options not in contention
1. Tata safari. Putting a fight to innova is this price range still has some way to go for Tata. Lack of boot space with three rows, not as good a resale like innova and long term reliability is still unknown. Moreover for a car costing between 24 to 28 lakhs on road for the xta and xza models, more finesse is required. The steering felt disconnected. Heavy at low speeds and light at high speeds. The infotainment system still feels behind time and lack of boot space with three rows limits the use on long trips which in essence defeats the purpose of buying a car in this price bracket.
2. Tata harrier. Solid build and suspension but 2.5 lakhs over the top end creta does not seem justifiable with many niggles reported by existing owners.

- An Innova seems like a good choice, and least likely to bring any surprised over it's lifetime. One knows what you are going for, and very likely one will get that. Tried and tested.

- The driving experience and cabin space of Creta and Harrier aren't really comparable. Creta comes across as a practical choice in many ways, especially for the city; the Harrier for one who enjoys a bit more enthusiastic driving and fancies a more SUVish vehicle than what the Creta provides. Safari with third row down could simply be seen as a Harrier with the option of extra seats at the cost of luggage space, if your needs so warrant. Creta's size however is more city-friendly. (PS: My impressions on the Creta are largely based on the previous gen Creta, and the current gen Seltos, and reading other's views - so please interpret accordingly)

- If you can do without an AT, reading your Innova part, I would consider an MG Hector - you'll lose some of the positives and negatives of the Innova. Skimming through the threads on it on the forum is revealing of how few issues have been reported. For city speeds it has an amazing ride (please go through the TD experiences shared on the first page of this thread). For highways, many have reported comfortable cursing. It hasn't at all come across as "Chinese product". If one isn't focused much on enthusiastic driving, it is quite a refined and well rounded package at a decent price, especially appealing to the family oriented. The dampner for you might be that it hasn't been crash tested. Many speculations about the Fiat engine in the diesel Hector, Harrier, and Compass have been shared on the forum in respective tests. As per ron178, a new round of crash test reports are round the corner and might include the Hector.

About the other cars in your list, I really don't have enough idea (have been focused on cars with at least 2600mm.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Had it not been for Covid, would've gone ahead for a TD of the S-Cross mainly due to the love you've shown for it.

Agree with your point on avoiding an interim solution, rather go the distance even if delayed.
With this in mind skip the S-Cross, do try it if you bump into someone else who owns it and then take a TD as per our Handbook

While it is large on the outside the rear seat is set higher, which reduces the rear headroom. This is a factor which leads to many passengers appreciating the rear seat(a carryover from the SX4) but doesn't work well for taller folks.

In light of some new info seems like the new S-Cross has reduced rear headroom now as per this review(the reviewer is slightly under 5'5") :
Credits to Providers :

CarGurus UK : S-Cross 2022

PS : Since we seem to be running out of options, like you had mentioned in one of your initial posts, which car did you book initially ? or is it too early for that

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by shancz

- take a TD as per our Handbook

- In light of some new info seems like the new S-Cross has reduced rear headroom now as per this review(the reviewer is slightly under 5'5") :

- PS : Since we seem to be running out of options, like you had mentioned in one of your initial posts, which car did you book initially ? or is it too early for that

- I've yet to memorize that handbook, mate (shancz refers to the Guide on Effective TDs linked earlier in the thread)

- The headroom (as clearly seen around 1:37 on the video) is more than enough to not focus on the S-Cross. Also that the petrol shares the engine with the Ciaz. S-Cross is totally of the list, even as an interim vehicle, mate.

- The initial booking's value is only to the extent of shorter waiting time. Better I reveal that only when totally commuted to one car to avoid biases from anyone (and others who might read the thread).

~~~~~~~~

Nissan Kicks
I am still not totally over the Kicks (due to the HPS, midrange torque, chassis/platform). Very much considered the Duster too, but I suppose it has much against: no rear AC vents, no rear centre armrest (deal-breaker enough), possibly to be discontinued. It being quite ruled out is much based on that one experience in that one video. Might want to check it.

VW Taigun and Skoda Kushaq
These have been seen as the other ones to consider, since Kicks is being considered while being a petrol, however this one thread has almost made me strike off the twins off the list. More than the goodwill warranty not being offered, how stories of repeated failures and issues with their cars were shared made me wonder if I could accept that; especially after the hassle-free decade with the Optra Magnum.

Skoda Slavia?
I even had faint thoughts of the Slavia considering it is higher than a typical sedan, that it has an acceptable wheelbase; and especially that I generally do prefer sedans. If the aperture was enough and ingress-egress was acceptable (even if not ideal), I would have considered it. The long wait would be an issue. As also the said thread on VW/Sloda. And then there is also what @Heydj said here:

Originally Posted by heydj

I have very unreliable Skoda rapid tdi 2015 model that has sucked lot of my money.

Originally Posted by heydj

Also due to Skoda’s unreliability i never had confidence of venturing on outstation trips.

Thread: Skoda Rapid 1.5 TDI DSG failure | Quoted Rs 95000, no goodwill warranty from Skoda | Options?

Kia Carens
On realizing that it has a tremendous wheelbase of 2780 (more than all those TD in the thread till now, and the Innova), I ended up seeing a few videos. They say that the ride is much better sorted (partially due to larger profile tyres?). I just couldn't get myself to accept the Seltos engine on an even bigger vehicle - ruled out for me.
I did like aspects of the interiors and the front of the vehicle, though. Proportions were very MUVish (partly as also in the Hector).

Mahindra XUV700 and a few thoughts
A 'hypothetical' question I've asked myself a few times: If I was presented with an apt model of the XUV700, would I go ahead with it? I am unsure. I could probably live with the ingress-egress issue on the passenger side, as I usually don't use that seat (typically on the driver's or the second row left). The lack of steering feel bother's me, but that is poor in the Hector as well. Harrier and Compass seem better (on tested speeds), but they have the knee-console issue.

The big issue with the 700 also remains it being the niggles associated with the vehicle in it's first (and maybe second) year. The suspension too wasn't ideal for the city. If I had a lot of highway drives expected, might have been tempted enough. Right now: don't know. The engine, it's brute power, and overall composure for it's height remains enticing.

So, where does that leave me?
Lost!

[Kosfactor]

Dear Poitive,

I read your OP, I have come to this understanding that you don't need a few things.

1. You do not need a diesel.
2. You prefer an MT, sometimes you have a driver as well.
3. There is no need for a large 7 seater.
4. You have a budget for ~ 20L but can stretch for a compass.
5. You need spacious seating for your build and back comfort.

All things considered you should be looking at Octavia base model, you took a gamble with Chevy , Skoda is a safer bet and it's a proper upgrade from your Optra. The H point is fairly tall for a sedan, even in the back , so getting in and out is very easy.