[JKBKS]

Originally Posted by NPV

This is for a friend and I must admit I have been woefully out of touch with the current cars in the market especially since Covid! Please help with this query - his shortlist is Mahindra Scorpio N, Mahindra XUV 700, MG Hector and Tata Harrier (all Diesels), questions:

1. Scorpio N
-what's a better choice and why ? Between Z8 and Z8L
-are there 2 engine Options, please enlighten and compare/contrast

2. XUV 700
-what's a better choice and why ? Between AX5, AX7 and AX LX
- do the Scorpio N & XUV 700 share engine Options?

3. MG Hector
-please enlighten on variants and engine Options (5 and 6 seat configuration/variants are available apparently) ?

4. Tata Harrier
-please enlighten on variants and engine Options. Concern about FE being too low

I know it may sound weird not having proper requirements but he has done some amount of visits to the showrooms and zeroed in on this shortlist so please share your thoughts on each.

*I didn't want to create a separate new thread and I'm posting here since I think this thread is current and has a lot of research, comments and feedback!

One cant go wrong with either XUV700 or Tata Harrier. Matter of personal choice. I will pick XUV 700 though...

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by NPV

Loved the driveability, ride quality and ergonomics. I will definitely say the auto start-stop, gadgetry, Alexa, 360 degree camera and the million other features can leave one flabbergasted and divert one's attention completely away from the driving part of the test which in my opinion should come first.

Dont want to sound like a fanboy that's the precise reason why I would recommend Harrier. Fiat Engine, Hydraulic power steering, driving dynamics, 170 horses all combined in 1 package and you dont lose the driveability. The highway dynamics are simply awesome. I sometimes call the Harrier a Punto on Steroids. Now I can be called a fanboy.

Has the delivery times of XUV700 & Scorpio N comes down drastically or still have the unheard times of 1-1.5 yrs??

[JKBKS]

Originally Posted by Poitive

A Year!

Today marks a whole year since the thread was started. So, it is a good day to share the result of this:


The New One is Home!

Attachment 2389870

Congratulations Poitive!! Even I pulled the plug on a XUV 300 last week. So our search kind of culminated together, just like this wonderful thread that has a wealth of info for someone looking for some car buying research.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by NPV

Thanks guys, very valuable inputs!

So, today, my friend and I visited the Mahindra showroom nearby and did a test drive of the XUV 700 AX 7 petrol MT (I hope I got all that right!). The Diesel AX7-L TD car was out with another customer, which is actually what my friend intends buying.

Drive the petrol and diesel AT instead please, considering the amount of money in play its okay to wait for getting the proper test drive and taking an informed decision.

The infotainment will disappear into a screensaver if you set it that way, no more distractions - but it has a lot of features that were not advertised.

Unless there is a use case for AWD \ 4WD, one can avoid it - the AWD in XUV is pretty idiot proof, the 4WD system in ScorpioN is not, one needs to keep an eye on it.

From a passenger capacity perspective - these two are 5+2 , small adults and kids will fit but they are not dedicated 7 seaters, it seems intentional no doubt.

Ride comfort - XUV is more tolerant towards being driven like a car, ScorpioN needs a bit more care to keep passengers happy, they are comfortable for long distance driving as well as sitting in it, the drivetrain refinement and NVH package is really good too.

[NPV]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Has the delivery times of XUV700 & Scorpio N comes down drastically or still have the unheard times of 1-1.5 yrs??

So, the most valuable bit of information we gleaned from the conversations with the sales advisor (who incidentally was brilliant, more on this some other time) was that lower variants in XUV 700 can be delivered quicker whilst the top variants can actually take even up to a year. In stark contrast, the top variants in Scorpio N are available almost immediately (tops a month), whereas the lower variants can take up to a year

The sales advisor said the best he can promise for XUV AX7 is 7 months from booking (commitment from dealership) and it may even be delivered in 4 months if one is lucky, owing to cancellations by others.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by NPV

it may even be delivered in 4 months if one is lucky, owing to cancellations by others.

A friend had a similar experience in Mysore. Excellent sales advisor and his XUV700 was home within 1.5 months.
What worked in his favour :
- AX3 Petrol MT : dealer estimate was 4-6 months
- Colour : no restriction on colour turned out to be very favourable. He didn't want white or black which are the ones with the highest wait times.
- Cash : the ability to produce the money when demanded since he wasn't going for a loan.

In short he got a call one day that a Red AX3 Petrol MT had been cancelled and if he could make the payment it could be his which he did immediately and took delivery soon after.
The phenomenon of one person booking multiple models
and colours across locations is quite common and when one car gets delivered, 2-3 bookings get cancelled from the system.

[NPV]

Originally Posted by NPV

Still have a few more TDs lined up, will post as we go along.

Some more Test Drive updates from last couple days, got busy with work and couldn't post earlier.

Tata Safari
Ticks most of the boxes for someone looking for a 7 seater (my friend is)

However, the TD Car was a 6 seater captain seat configuration one. Engine felt super smooth, clutch was easy to get used to (both of us are used to decades of driving petrols) and the vehicle feels very car like - I was surprised to know it's now a monocoque chassis unlike the classic Safari. However, this could mean a much more comfortable ride for the rear passengers on longer drives ?

The steering felt very much like the Hexa, not too light like the XUV 700 (my new benchmark for a light steering!).

The third row is quite useable, albeit for children and those of small, short builds and fit enough to manage the ingress/egress in the 7 seater configuration, with captain seats it's quite easy though. The third row seat has almost no thigh support is a thin piece of leatherette wrapped foam, only good this is that can be folded down as 2 separate seats individually when not in use.

The standard interior of light (almost white and too light for comfort, dirt magnet!) and dark grey wasn't going to cut it, so they started asking for what other options are there. This is exactly where it got too complicated for my friend and his family since each of the special editions like Adventure Persona, Kaziranga and Dark Edition actually come with either just one or two corresponding exterior colour options! Add to this the pricing goes super northwards, my friend almost decided it was a No.

Having driven the Hexa a few times and also traveling with my friends, I think that still remains my Gold standard, it was a superb car and those who bought it did a very smart thing.

Mahindra Scorpio N
My friend had some bias towards this one since he loved the stance and the vehicle itself as soon as he saw the display vehicle parked inside the showroom when we'd done the TD of the XUV 500. The strict officer that I'm, I kept my mind away from forming any opinions till the actual TD

However, the actual TD happened just yesterday and we both were actually blown away, we loved it so much. TD car was a 7 seater Diesel MT and it was so powerful, the moment we got beyond some initial traffic on Old Madras Road, the vehicle was literally surging and begging to be driven faster! On the open highway, we got to 100 Kmph very quickly and easily and the kind of command it has is simply unbelievable, most vehicles just moved to give us way, it was that easy without even trying. There was one guy in an SX4 who was constantly waving out at the traffic signals near KR Puram, so I finally rolled the windows down when my friend was at the wheel and the guy wanted to know the variant, price, etc. We put him in touch with the SA who was seated on the third row and soon they were in touch on phone, a new lead/potential customer for the SA who was all smiles.

Steering feels light, lighter than the Tata Safari, but not as light as the XUV 500.

This is by far the biggest and most comfortable vehicle we have done a TD of so far. Loads of space for first and second row and not bad at all for the third as well.

After that TD, my friend has decided to go with the Scorpio N, but I added a new dimension to the decision making by asking him to consider the Auto transmission, so here are a few questions:
1. Will there be a major difference (passenger/driver fatigue) when on long drives, owing to the Body on Frame chassis compared to a monocoque ?

2. Z8 MT Vs Z8L MT main differences for a 2.5L premium are the audio system, front camera, driver drowsiness detection and Diamond cut alloys, but are both having 17 inch tyres ? If this is correct, I'm surprised that Z8 which is a 20+ Lakh car doesn't come with Alloys!

3. Z8 Auto
- how is the auto transmission ? Any potential issues to be aware of ? will this be a better choice compared to the MT ?
- does this actually come with 18 inchers and Diamond cut alloys ?
- are 18 inch tyres good for our Indian roads and conditions ? Should we instead consider the Z8 MT and upgrade to alloys, either Mahindra's or after market (assuming it is 17")

*From what my friend explained, it does seem like Mahindra is offering both 17" and 18" diamond cut alloys on certain models ?

[NPV]

We had not taken the TD of the Hector Plus since my friend seemed ready to book the Scorpio N, but his family likes that very much (when they saw the display car at the showroom), so there was a sort of twist in the tale, but no decision yet.

We headed to a nearby MG showroom and I simply loved the layout, decor and the staff at the dealership, they were all so happy, alive and kicking, lot of energy

The fact that there was a corner pantry with a nice coffee machine made it that much more pleasant and inviting with the aroma of coffee as soon as one enters the showroom.

We took a TD of the petrol automatic Hector Plus and it was awesome. The build quality was decent and feature set good as well. However, the third row is extremely low and absolutely suited only for small children.

A big bummer is that there is no Diesel automatic , but my friend says he can live with the Petrol since his usage may not be that high.

My friend was always saying he wants an MT only and this simply made him realise the value and ease of driving and comfort that an auto transmission gives, I'm happy I got him to think about this.

Anyways, now the family is going to TD the Hector Plus next week before making the final decision which for now seems will be between Scorpio N and Hector Plus.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by NPV

- The fact that there was a corner pantry with a nice coffee machine made it that much more pleasant and inviting with the aroma of coffee as soon as one enters the showroom.

- A big bummer is that there is no Diesel automatic , .

- I had the same experience at a MS Arena showroom! The first thing I noticed upon entering was large coffee-bar sort of a place and the seats arranged in a cafe layout. Not to forget the smell of freshly roasted coffee wafting about. Just elevates your senses and ambience to another level.

- That's quite surprising and news to me.

[BleueNinja]

Originally Posted by shancz

-

- That's quite surprising and news to me.

It actually is. Even I was surprised when I came to know about it considering the fact that Compass and Harrier/Safari are using the same Fiat MultiJet engine and have Automatic option available. Compass provides a Dual Clutch option where has Harrier has TC gearbox.
Maybe, it’s a sign that MG wants to stick to Petrol/EV approach for their vehicles and Hector has been provided with a Diesel MT so that they do have an option per se in the market?

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by BleueNinja

Congratulations Poitive. Eagerly awaiting your ownership thread!

Cheers!

Thanks mate. I guess it'll only be in the new year. Hope you're enjoying your HPS

Originally Posted by JKBKS

Congratulations Poitive!! Even I pulled the plug on a XUV 300 last week. So our search kind of culminated together, just like this wonderful thread that has a wealth of info for someone looking for some car buying research.

Heartiest congratulations and pardon me for being late for this. Also, thank you bud. XUV 300 really did impress me too - offers much for a sub 4m vehicle - almost feels more spacious than the Seltos and Compass (boot notwithstanding). Wishing you and the family many happy years with it; learning and taking it to places.

The thread, I noticed, has over 2.5 lakh views now!

~~~~~

Originally Posted by NPV

The XUV 700 has an extremely light steering and I guess for someone like me it's going to take a long time to get used to that and feel safe driving a car of such stance and size
.....

Also:
-I think having 4WD in the Scorpio N is better than having AWD on the XUV 700, since 4WD can be engaged when needed ?
-Monocoque chassis on XUV vs body on frame chassis of the Scorpio N, along with lot lesser gadgetry lends itself better for use as a rugged, go anywhere kind of car. But on the flip side, the car like driving dynamics of the XUV 700 will probably be missed on the Scorpio N, and may not be as comfortable on longer drives for rear seat passengers ?

Originally Posted by NPV

Tata Safari
Ticks most of the boxes for someone looking for a 7 seater (my friend is)

However, the TD Car was a 6 seater captain seat configuration one.

....

The steering felt very much like the Hexa, not too light like the XUV 700 (my new benchmark for a light steering!).

....

Mahindra Scorpio N
.... However, the actual TD happened just yesterday and we both were actually blown away, we loved it so much. TD car was a 7 seater Diesel MT and it was so powerful, the moment we got beyond some initial traffic on Old Madras Road, the vehicle was literally surging and begging to be driven faster! .
....
Steering feels light, lighter than the Tata Safari, but not as light as the XUV 500.
....
This is by far the biggest and most comfortable vehicle we have done a TD of so far. Loads of space for first and second row and not bad at all for the third as well.
....
1. Will there be a major difference (passenger/driver fatigue) when on long drives, owing to the Body on Frame chassis compared to a monocoque ?

Originally Posted by NPV

... We took a TD of the petrol automatic Hector Plus and it was awesome. The build quality was decent and feature set good as well. However, the third row is extremely low and absolutely suited only for small children.
....
Anyways, now the family is going to TD the Hector Plus next week before making the final decision which for now seems will be between Scorpio N and Hector Plus.

Mate, since the requirements of your friend aren't clear, difficult to really suggest a vehicle outright. Adding some points:

1. If your friend and/or you are fond of reading, it might be worth reading through this thread. There are many discussions on it, touching various points.

At the very least, it should be helpful to at least go through the Test Drives (please check first post)

2. You find the steering of the Safari like the Hexa as both have an Hydraulic Power Steering (HPS) - something of a dying breed. XUV700 and Scropio N have an Electric Power Steering (EPS). EPS almost always has poor feedback and HPS usually good to excellent.

Couple of posts explaining HPS vs EPS: Link 1 and Link 2

3. Which mode did you drive the XUV700 in? The steering weight changes with the drive modes. The weight felt also changes with the tyre pressure. An underinflated tyre will feel heavier, overinflated lighter. Might have been the case in the XUV700 vs Scorpio N comparison.

4. I find the bench on the second row more comfortable and also more practical, except for easier access to the 3rd row. Allows stuff to be kept on the bench - files, laptop, etc. Also gives a wider armrest; I really don't like the slim ones on the captain's seats.

5. The Scorpio N has a pretty high Center of Gravity, and also a high Roll Centre. This part has been discussed a fair bit on the thread in conversations with @RijuC. Please check that part and how it may related to altered driving and safety.

6. Some of your questions about the Scorpio N have been covered in the extensive TD report. Link here.

For highway and mountain roads the XUV700 and especially the Harrier would be better. The Harrier/Safari would lose out on NVH though. NVH too has been covered a few posts before the Scorpio N's report. Scorpio N, of course would be better suited to off road situations in 4x4.

7. 4x4 vs AWD: Typically, a 4x4 would be much better at off-road stuff. Go for that if that use is really expected. For tarmac, an AWD would be better, as it would help in better traction without much active input from the driver. The other pair of wheels will get power based on slippage detection of it's own. This is helpful in snow, rain and other low-traction situations. An 4x4 can't be kept on permanently as it would lead to Transmission Wind up, hence not recommended at all. If stuck in an off-road situation, a 4x4 can typically get you out better than an AWD.

For typical users, unless they often drive in the rain, snow, or have lots of driving around hills, neither would be significantly important, though if money is not an object, might be good to have. Some cons to them too.

8. Do reconsider going for the petrol Hector. It only has a 1.5 litre engine and might feel inadequate, especially if compared to the 2.0 Harrier/Safari and even more so with the 2.2 litre of the Mahindras. The FE too is known to be atrocious for a 1.5 litre engine. Engines with good torque, as the diesels in the shortlist have, do allow one to have fewer gear changes than most petrols (you had mentioned being used to petrols). An MT also allows better control over the vehicle, and I see it as a part of enjoying a car; though if one has a lot of bumper to bumper traffic, an AT would of course, be a lot more convenient.

I also see MT as a safer option, for someone who is used to an MT and finds it intuitive.

9. I too have appreciated how well made the Hector is, and the good in-cabin feel it has. It does a lot of things right, and has as very good record of few failures, and good customer support. MG has topped the JD Powers survey too. However, do consider that it is a Chinese company owned by the govt/PLA, and they may have hurdles in existing in India based on how things play out on the border and more with China.

10. Scorpio N is new in the market and has not gone through improvements that the over a year old XUV700 has. Both have the same engine. The XUV700 diesel gets a higher state of tune. If your friend likes the Scorpio N, I'd suggest another TD of the XUV700 on the same route.

Please go through the Guide to Effective Test Drives.
Link: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...-new-cars.html (Guide: How to take Effective Test-Drives of new cars)

Do have a long TD of the selected vehicle. At least an hour to get a better sense of it, especially with respect to day to day driving and NVH.

11. Do consider that the Scorpio N has a Solid Beam Axle at the rear - least suited to driving on tarmac (especially broken tarmac). The XUV700 (and Compass) have an independent suspension, which is best suited. The others have a Torsion beam, which falls midway. Implementation too is very important, as the Harrier shows.

The Hector has a soft suspension, which is great for city-speeds. Second row didn't feel as good on bouncy roads. On the highway and hills, others should be better, as this is a high car without the track width to compensate.

For a balance between sportiness and comfort, the Harrier/Safari and XUV700 are the picks from the suspension standpoint.

~~~~~~

12. Though there are many many considerations, very very briefly, for the diesels in this segment, more from a driver's perspective:

Tata Harrier:
- A good choice for an enthusiast - Low centre of gravity; very well sorted suspension; HPS - with EPS becoming the norm, this is amongst the last few which still offers steering feedback, one feels connected to the drive.
- The knee-console issue is a fairly big problem for some, NVH is poor, inconsistent finish, those not used to an HPS find the steering hard at low speeds.

Tata Safari:
Largely same as the Harrier with +2 seats. Somewhat less sporty due to more weight in the rear and a higher CoG; most would not feel it significantly.

Mahindra XUV 700:
- An all-rounder sort with a tilt towards performance. Excellent engine, NVH very well controlled, feature loaded and with ADAS (with questionable practical usability); ergonomics are excellent in parts.
- Lifeless steering which is a mismatch for such an engine and car, a feeling of disconnect with the driving experience; makes it hard for an enthusiast to accept. The high CoG as compared to the Harrier can be felt.
Ergonomics are very poor in parts.

MG Hector:
- An all-rounder practical choice for the family with a good cabin; good to be driven around in, especially the city; best space in the second row; overall refined experience; a well thought-out vehicle, with very few niggles and complaints from users.
- Some enthusiasts might find it boring; not particularly agile; questionable longevity of a Chinese govt company in India; very few hardware buttons mean you keep speaking to a bot!

Compass:
- Sporty smallish SUV with a sense of style; very agile vehicle with a good sense of weight distribution and fairly sporty suspension; Car does have some connect despite the EPS due to the suspension setup; interiors look fairly premium; city-friendly size.
- Knee-console issue; cramped inside; small boot; poor NVH management; too many niggles for a premium price; questionable life of the company in India; only moderate ride quality.

Mahindra Scorpio N:
- For those who make use of a BoF and/or 4x4; works both as a family vehicle and an off-roader in the about 20 lack price segment; excellent sound insulation, good engine characteristics, high seating position.
- Never felt truly fully settled; high CoG + high roll-centre; lifeless steering totally unsuited and adds to issues; some vibrations/harshness felt after a while, especially rear seat; ergonomic issues.

[BleueNinja]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Thanks mate. I guess it'll only be in the new year. Hope you're enjoying your HPS

Guess we will have to wait patiently till then! But, hey as they say “good things come to those who wait”

I am completely head over heels in love with my Harrier. The more I drive it the more I love it. 8000 kms are up and it has been 4 months. I was well aware of “flaws” per se hence it was easier to make peace with them.

I still ponder tho, should I have gone for black harrier over white I guess that’s a decision and a question for next purchase now.

Cheers!

[NPV]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Mate, since the requirements of your friend aren't clear, difficult to really suggest a vehicle outright.

Thanks for your very detailed response, appreciate it

To keep it simple, my friend is looking for a new (no pre-used), comfortable 7 seater car under 30L. His typical usage will be 80% as a 5 seater with luggage on highways as well as 20% on shorter, city and small town runs with 7 people. Mixed type of roads - city, rural, broken/bad as well as good highways (no plan for off roading).

The Compass and Harrier were ruled out initially (no TD) since they can't seat 7.

He has Test driven the XUV 700 petrol, Safari diesel, Scorpio N diesel and Hector plus petrol. So far the Scorpio N and Hector were impressive, but similar concerns as you have mentioned about the Hector petrol 1.5 being inadequate with 7 people on board.
Other than the concern about Scorpio's high centre of gravity, everything else about the vehicle is very positive and reassuring I must say.

I had also asked him to TD the XUV 700 Diesel on the same route taken as the other cars, so once we do this next week I will share the update.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by NPV

Thanks for your very detailed response, appreciate it

To keep it simple, my friend is looking for a new (no pre-used), comfortable 7 seater car under 30L. His typical usage will be 80% as a 5 seater with luggage on highways as well as 20% on shorter, city and small town runs with 7 people. Mixed type of roads - city, rural, broken/bad as well as good highways (no plan for off roading).

The Compass and Harrier were ruled out initially (no TD) since they can't seat 7.

He has Test driven the XUV 700 petrol, Safari diesel, Scorpio N diesel and Hector plus petrol. So far the Scorpio N and Hector were impressive, but similar concerns as you have mentioned about the Hector petrol 1.5 being inadequate with 7 people on board.
Other than the concern about Scorpio's high centre of gravity, everything else about the vehicle is very positive and reassuring I must say.

I had also asked him to TD the XUV 700 Diesel on the same route taken as the other cars, so once we do this next week I will share the update.

What did you friend choose and why?

[Heisenberg_ad]

Test drove Taigun and Hector plus today.

Taigun 1.0 manual
It was fun but power delivery was slow comparatively. Overall satisfactory.

Taigun 1.5 DSG
My god this car is something. I currently drive Rapid dsg and so far i thought nothing in the segment can beat the torque of the rapid. But this car was a blast. Switch to S mode and you see the magic. It pushes you back to the seat and you fly through the road overtaking other cars. Other cars going at 100 kph looks like they are going slower.
The car feels planted and secure. It rides flat on open roads. If you're going for taigun, go for the 1.5. Or atleast take a test drive and see the difference.

Hector plus
This car feels premium inside. Especially the panoramic sunroof and soft touch interiors. The comfort and space on back seat is next to crysta.
No diesel AT is a bummer. Rides nicely at slow speed, but not very confidence inspiring at high speeds.

Basically i felt that Taigun is for driver's fun and Hector is for passenger's comfort.