[heydj]

Perfect car is Tucson. Don't go by Hyundai tag instead think if it checks all your boxes or not.

Also Hyundai is CBD and quality is going to be unlike Hyundai and this I can say from experience because bought Tucson Diesel few months back. It's been a joy to drive ever since.

Moreover within Hyundai get really good service as GM bend backwards to accomodate Tucson customers.

[dass]

I am thinking of upgrading from my 2013 Dzire VDI (62k kms) with a maximum budget of 20L OTR in Bangalore. Please help with suggestions based on the below requirements.

1. Need a safe car, minimum 4 airbags.
2. Automatic only, my left knee hurts in Bangalore traffic, so much so that I desist to take the car out within city and have been using my bike a lot more.
3. Petrol or Diesel does not matter. My usage will be less than 1k kms per month. NO EV for now.
4. Plan to keep it for 10 years and hence need something which is reliable.
5. 5 seater, ABS, good boot space, along with cruise control and sun roof are the must have features.

I do not want to go over 20L for sure, so anything with in that is my preference. There are so many options that I am thoroughly confused on what to choose.

[Highflyer]

Originally Posted by mountainboy1213

Hello Fellow BHP'ians.

I am out in the car market in search of a suitable replacement for my trusted Verna diesel, which I had to sell due to the 10-year rule in the NCR. I am on a loaner car for the last 6-7 months and in this duration, I feel I have exhausted the entire 10L-40L range and yet I don’t have a mind on the ‘perfect’ car. Need some advice from the community to help me reach a decision:

Have you considered pre-owned route to nirvana?
I suggest to have a hard look at this option. Within this budget you can lay your hands on a premium car that can be tremendous value proposition.
I am also in the market for a car with a budget of 40 lacs or so.

I have posed this question here.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showt...errerid=127821 (Skoda Kodiaq vs VW Tiguan vs Toyota Fortuner vs MG Gloster vs others)

[RijuC]

Hi Poitive, did you try Alcazar 2.0 AT / MT?

How will be this for my use-case:

1. 80% single occupant, 15-18% 2 persons, 2-3% 5 persons (I'll be using the 7 seater as 5 seater),

2. Highway usage 60%+

3. Yearly run= 12000 km maximum,

4. Mountain road= 30-40%,

5. Daily bad road section=12 km for 260 days,

6. Reliable AT is must (DCT, DSG, CVT, AMT are out).

Long wheelbase of 2760 mm is a big concern.

[KnuckleBenz]

Hello BHPians,

This is my first post on the forum and firstly a very big thank you for the moderators who accepted my request to join this great community. I am Krishna from Hyderabad and I am a Consultant in IT sector. I am in the age of 30’s.

TeamBHP has been excellent for its information, guidance,inspiration and knowledge etc. The efforts for maintaining the quality, standards of the forum are phenomenal. TeamBHP - One stop for detailed reviews, DIY posts, important information & meaningful suggestions etc.


I have been roving in south India since 2011.

I studied in Chennai and worked/stayed in Chennai from 2008 - 2011

Hyderabad from 2011 - 2013

Bangalore from 2013 - 2019

Kerala - few months in 2015

Hyderabad - 2019 to Present



I bought my first two wheeler Hero CBZ Xtreme in 2013 and owned my First Four wheeler Ford Aspire in 2016 which is also my present car. I would be sharing my experience, review with Ford shortly. I am a regular reader of Team-BHP website for years and being a part of it makes me joyful.

I would cherish this as one of the best things happened in the year 2023.

I would like to have more friends in this Team-BHP forum with great discussions and wonderful interactions. Before posting my ownership review of Ford Aspire, I would love to take your suggestions as I'm bewildered and unable to decide on anything for a new car.


My considerations are :

Hyundai Venue,
Hyundai Creta,
TATA Harrier,
Mahindra XUV700,
TATA Safari (My Fav Indian Car),
Mahindra Scorpio N


Must Have:

Budget 19L (Already stretched from 12L)
Less Maintainance (Heard Tata is high in Maintenance)
Reliable - I would retain this new car for ages.
Fan of Power (1.5L)
Good Features for the price
Comfortable seating for 5 people
Good After sales service
Frequent traveller on Trips (4000 KM at a stretch)
Finally Good Mileage


Some crucial points or clarifications I wanted to ask this forum:

Is that true that Tata is high in maintainance than normal and Mahindra is poor in after sales service.

Few of my colleagues are reluctant to consider Tata & Mahindra cars mentioning after sales service is poor and resale pricing of cars is bad for both. Is this true ?

Ford owners - Your present cars after Ford ?


Hope you guys can advise me and any suggestion would be highly appreciated.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by KnuckleBenz

1. Is that true that Tata is high in maintainance than normal and Mahindra is poor in after sales service.

2. Few of my colleagues are reluctant to consider Tata & Mahindra cars mentioning after sales service is poor and resale pricing of cars is bad for both. Is this true ?

Welcome to TBHP and Poitive's thread
You've come to the perfect thread and I would recommend a read of this thread from the beginning, of course skipping the usual banter if you feel.

Your requirements don't match with your choices so some details about your expected driving distance and conditions would be a good start in selecting the fuel, transmission, body type etc.

Coming to your questions :
1. Tata mainly has complaints about poor workshop experience and higher number of issues in the Harrier/Safari as compared to the likes of Tiago, Nexon etc.
The service experience can vary across locations but they have a reputation of hit/miss service on TBHP reviews.
Other manufacturers like Jeep have the same too and as you read through the thread you might come across similar points but yes Tata flagships aren't really known for "fuss free" experiences.

2. Mahindra generally has better reviews and one of the reasons might be better control of Mahindra over its dealers but cars like XUV700 will have niggles but haven't heard of any major issues/breakdowns yet, which is a good sign.

On resale pricing of course they won't be able to match Maruti or even Hyundai, Honda or Toyota but a lot of it would stem from the lack of "fuss free" experience which build a reputation. But this shouldn't be a major concern if you're looking to retain for a long time.
Honestly I don't think you'll be able to renew your registration 10-15 years from now, especially in big cities but its a guess.

Waiting for your requirements so suitable suggestions could be made.

[Poitive]

A bit of a personal OT note to start with:

Folks, though no disaster, life hasn't exactly been normal for a while now, including some manageable health issues. Too much on mind and on my plate, and not driving enough too. Hence there is no ownership report as yet. I really don't know when I will be able to write it. Many times, I thought that I should at least share the selection and some basic details on this thread itself. Then thought that if I do so, given the current situation, am very unlikely to start an ownership report at all. For now, I will wait and give myself a chance to start the ownership report, even if late. Thanks for bearing up.

In the meantime, will keep adding to the thread and forum, when possible.
Have also not been able to reply to the PMs. Will hopefully do so soon.

~~~~~~~~~

Originally Posted by NPV

I have (finally!) started thinking about replacing my first gen Dzire VXI, please share your thoughts and guide me in my hunt for the next car.

...
11. Reliability, Parts quality, Spares availability and Service is important (especially since I've been spoilt by easy access to MGP parts and my choice of FNG's for a few years now)
...
Cars to consider
1. Mahindra XUV 700
2. Tata Harrier
3. MG Hector (no Diesel automatic?)
4. Mahindra Scorpio N
5. Tata Safari
6. Hyundai Tucson (way over budget?)
7. VW Tiguan ? (have no idea about this)
8. Jeep Compass (can't seat 5 adults?)

Am I missing any other potential cars that I need to consider and TD ?

Mate, much of what I have to say was already said in the reply for your friend earlier in the thread. To add to that, even though it would not meet your criteria in point 11, it being a CKD, do TD the Tucson. Besides the XUV700, it is one of the diesel engines to enjoy. Compass would be tight for 5, unless most are of a small size. Harrier and XUV700 remain practical choices with fairly good value (highly subjective), and I am not sure if one should touch a VW by stretching the budget a lot to start with.

Do share your TD views on the thread, when you test them.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

L variant is definitely worth it however wait for the AT, be it diesel or petrol. The diesel AT has Max torque output of 450nm, makes it even more effortless to drive, not to mention the additional features.

While looking at torque figures of AT vehicles, one also needs to bear in mind about the parasitic (transmission) losses, which are much higher in Torque Converters as compared to a MT. The 450Nm of the AT might only be roughly similar to the 420Nm of the MT at the wheels.

Such parasitic transmission losses is also the reason for poorer FE of Torque Converters, as compared to MT.

Originally Posted by vinit.merchant

This is the tact I have seen the dealerships use nowadays i.e. reduce the wait time but sell you the highest variant which is much more expensive - As if only the top end variants are being cancelled.

With the XUV700, have seen it both ways. At least till a few months ago, it was the AX5 and below which was more readily available; later heard that the premium ones are. I got calls for both, the AX5 and AX7L over the months.

I guess it has a lot to do with production lines being planned with the contingency of chip supplies, which too was in question with threats of Taiwan being drawn into a conflict; one which would immensely hit global supplies. (Taiwan accounts for a huge global supply of semiconductors).

Originally Posted by mountainboy1213

...
Few Requirements/Wish-list items:

- Coming from a Sedan, I am looking for a SUVish car
- Since this is my first major change after 10 years, I need a feel-good car (Pleasant interiors, Good music, Nice Screen, Fancy features)
- I am a fairly sedate driver so, driving power/acceleration-like features are not so high on the priority list
- Automatic (because Delhi Traffic)
- Brand (because wife is not too fond of Tata /Mahindra badging)
- Sunroof (because Daughter says so)
- Big Boot (because we don’t know how to travel light)
- Hassle-free Ownership (because we have been spoiled by Hyundai)
- MILEAGE (because, I just changed my job, which means my commute pattern has changed from travelling to the office once a fortnight to almost 100KM daily [Gurgaon-Noida-Gurgaon])

...
- Is there a hidden gem which I have not considered?
- Or, should I buy a smaller mileage-friendly/feel-good car for the office commute and later a medium one for home/office travel? If yes, which options can I consider?
- Or, Should I go with Hector and break few FDs just for fuel?

Mate, with 100kms a day in the city-suburb, and not really focused on enthusiastic driving, it would be a good idea to look for good ride quality and suspensions which are on the softer side. Based on that, from your list, I'd think of skipping the Compass (and I presume Meridian would be similar). I didn't try Creta, but if the Seltos was even a hint of what to expect, would keep that out of the list too; also considering it would be enough of an upgrade.

Hector, with only a 1.5 litre petrol might feel slightly tedious for it's weight for 100kms daily, and you too pointed out, terrible FE. An engine with more power and torque would be easier to drive. The Hector also has a very city-speed friendly suspension and would keep you happy. If you are open to an MT, the diesel Hector would suit your needs very well, I presume. It also has a good track record of few failures and complaints; also friendly service. My personal experience with the company wasn't great though.

The other one to look at is the Tucson. It being a CKD would give you an international standard car without the cheapening which at times goes in price sensitive markets like India (covered earlier in the thread; especially a post by @shancz). Owners are usually happy. More power and torque then you'd need (diesel), independent suspension, EPS for easy driving, and a quality product on the whole. If this wasn't a Hyundai, and a more valued brand, it would likely cost even more. Do TD it before making up your mind.

Tata and Mahindra have been improving, and finish wise, Mahindra does well and the XUV700 suits your needs in many ways. Worth reconsidering, if you're looking for VFM.

With such running, I presume it would make sense to focus on diesels, despite the 10 year rule in Delhi. Sell in the 7th-8th year or earlier. Registering in a non Delhi region (Gurgaon, Noida etc) would also help, if you have an address there.

Unless an additional car has other benefits, I feel sticking to one better car is a good idea. Overall lesser cost as lesser service, insurance, cleaning etc costs, and most of all your daily run (which is substantial) is in a better vehicle - something of value, I'd say. A comfortable person would usually be more productive and that is worth something.

Reading this thread might give you many pointers; especially the first page with test drive reports.

Originally Posted by dass

I do not want to go over 20L for sure, so anything with in that is my preference. There are so many options that I am thoroughly confused on what to choose.

True, mate, many choices. An approach to narrow down could be:
Get clear if one likes how a sedan drives or how SUVs/Crossovers drive. They feel rather different, if that is a criteria. Also other ergonomic etc criteria one might need.

Next, see what you enjoy more about a car. Spend some time pondering over it. It could be the feel-good factor of the cabin, to the ride quality, to the handling, composure, space and other factors. Once one is more clear of the factors involved, one might find it narrowing down easier; or perhaps even more complicated, but would form the basis of a more informed decision.

Besides going through this thread, it might be useful to go through the Guide to Effective Test Drives (link)

Originally Posted by RijuC

Hi Poitive, did you try Alcazar 2.0 AT / MT?

How will be this for my use-case:
1. 80% single occupant, 15-18% 2 persons, 2-3% 5 persons (I'll be using the 7 seater as 5 seater),
2. Highway usage 60%+
3. Yearly run= 12000 km maximum,
4. Mountain road= 30-40%,
5. Daily bad road section=12 km for 260 days,
6. Reliable AT is must (DCT, DSG, CVT, AMT are out).
Long wheelbase of 2760 mm is a big concern.

Hi RijuC; No, I haven't tired the Alcazar.
For your use case, the main advantage it may bring over the Creta would be the 2.0L engine. Not sure if it is worth lugging around as much weight round the year for that.

Please remind me, why the Harrier (good HPS, suspension etc for your use) and the XUV700 AX3 don't work for you. With time, prices are only rising and you might need to spend more. I see you trying very hard to get the choice right (much like I was), and eventually it boils down to the compromises one is more willing to make.

For that purpose, and if you really want to analyze further, you might consider a Table with various cars, with the following details (if you do make it, please do post it here, as it would help others too):
- Power (Bhp)
- Torque,
- Weight (one might need to make some efforts to get this, but worth it)
- Bhp/Tonne
- Torque/Tonne
- Steering type (EPS/HPS)
- Suspension type
- Transmission options
- Body dimensions
- Body form and what it is aimed for (say, an off-road based design vs a city based design)
- Any particular Ergonomic observations
- Build quality observations (since you are good with that)
- General remarks with pluses and minuses (eg, the XUV300 has a small boot)
- On-Road price
- Waiting period
- Other factors I might've missed and you find useful to decide.

This would not only help you, but many others on the forum and thread, and an early decision might save some money too.

[Edit: Though I'm wary of Skoda and VW, including due to experiences in the family besides the thread on the forum, Kushaq and Taigun might be worth reconsidering. They are the right size for your needs, low CoG as compared to others, fairly large, requisite power in 1.5, within budget etc]

Originally Posted by KnuckleBenz

Hello BHPians,

This is my first post on the forum and firstly a very big thank you for the moderators who accepted my request to join this great community.

Welcome to the forum mate; also to the thread. As shancz suggested, it would be better to have more detailed needs and preferences to be able to suggest more meaningfully. The reply to @dass above might help you too.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Poitive

- life hasn't exactly been normal for a while now, including some manageable health issues.

- For now, I will wait and give myself a chance to start the ownership report, even if late.

- Ditto and some more. Getting back on track now although in gear 1 at 1200rpm but thankfully my transmission is a MT so going from gear 1 to 3 and beyond is possible if sufficient momentum is built and of course no parasitic losses
Wish you the same.


- Take your time, no rush, when it comes it will be worth the wait.

Originally Posted by KnuckleBenz

Hello BHPians,
Budget 19L
Less Maintainance
Reliable - I would retain this new car for ages.
Fan of Power
Good Features for the price
Comfortable seating for 5 people
Good After sales service
Frequent traveller on Trips (4000 KM at a stretch)
Finally Good Mileage

Agree with Poitive's response and if I look at just your requirements minus the concerns and specifics here's a shortlist you can also consider :

- VW Taigun/ Skoda Kushaq 1.0 TSi : it would incur higher maintenance costs and my only concern currently is about the AC issues. They claimed to have fixed it but that has to be checked.
The 1.5 GT would be expensive by at least 3-4 lakhs and that has the 1.5TSi - DSG combination which is sourced from overseas so expect higher spares costs at the very least. The DSG doesn't instill much confidence either. The "DSG fund" we talk about puts its expected costs nearing 27-28 lakhs which IMHO is way too much for that vehicle.

- Mahindra XUV700 : If size isn't a concern its a good choice.

- Tata Harrier : ASC issues are the biggest fly in the ointment apart from the ergonomics with the knee console issue and frontal visibility issues as some friends coming from hatchbacks had mentioned.
Although I would vouch for Tata's suspension and comfort levels and those looks

If you ask me, I think the Taigun/Kushaq 1.0 would make for an optimal choice but the catch is that for the same price you can also get a Harrier or a XUV700 which are larger and in some aspects better vehicles. If you're okay with diesels then this makes the choice even more difficult.
Hence you need to finalize your requirements first.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Poitive

A bit of a personal OT note to start with:

Folks, though no disaster, life hasn't exactly been normal for a while now, including some manageable health issues. Too much on mind and on my plate, and not driving enough too. Hence there is no ownership report as yet. I really don't know when I will be able to write it. Many times, I thought that I should at least share the selection and some basic details on this thread itself. Then thought that if I do so, given the current situation, am very unlikely to start an ownership report at all. For now, I will wait and give myself a chance to start the ownership report, even if late. Thanks for bearing up.

*Snip*

While looking at torque figures of AT vehicles, one also needs to bear in mind about the parasitic (transmission) losses, which are much higher in Torque Converters as compared to a MT. The 450Nm of the AT might only be roughly similar to the 420Nm of the MT at the wheels.

Such parasitic transmission losses is also the reason for poorer FE of Torque Converters, as compared to MT.

Hope all goes well. It is difficult to start an ownership blog but once you get started , it gets even more difficult as you start discovering more and more things to make note of, take pictures of perhaps even research a bit.

All in good time.

Torque converter multiplies torque, so even if the gearing is taller it would be able to compensate very well, the result is effortless acceleration, you would not know how fast you are going until you look down at the speedo.

Traditionally an AT was considered inefficient due to the TC and associated losses, however with computer controlled valves, clutch packs and TC lock up clutch etc, the tables have turned. Besides the AT provides much more flexibility to the ECU in terms of how it wants to gain or lose speed.

PS : I am an MT fan, I daily drive one but I am much humbled by new tech.

[Poitive]

Initial section is OT.

Originally Posted by shancz

- Ditto and some more. Getting back on track now although in gear 1 at 1200rpm but thankfully my transmission is a MT so going from gear 1 to 3 and beyond is possible if sufficient momentum is built and of course no parasitic losses
Wish you the same.

Very interestingly put mate! Thank you for your wishes, and wishing you to ride the torque curves with full control over it and enjoy the momentum buildup. May the force be with you, in March itself
No wonder you too were half-missing.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Hope all goes well. It is difficult to start an ownership blog but once you get started , it gets even more difficult as you start discovering more and more things to make note of, take pictures of perhaps even research a bit.

Thanks, mate. Just likely to be a slow process.

In fact, the last time I started an ownership report, it took only a few hours of being in the right frame of mind, and it was onto it's 10th page in a fortnight (of active days), much to my surprise too; but those days one was less about the thanks button, and more about congratulating with posts; a different era on the forum, then.

Now, either I have the time, or the frame of mind, and almost never together. The odd time it is there, it gets used for posts like the previous and this one.

~~~~~~~~

On Topic: Torque Covnerters

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Torque converter multiplies torque, so even if the gearing is taller it would be able to compensate very well, the result is effortless acceleration, you would not know how fast you are going until you look down at the speedo.

Traditionally an AT was considered inefficient due to the TC and associated losses, however with computer controlled valves, clutch packs and TC lock up clutch etc, the tables have turned. Besides the AT provides much more flexibility to the ECU in terms of how it wants to gain or lose speed.

PS : I am an MT fan, I daily drive one but I am much humbled by new tech.

Good to know that you too enjoy an MT. It is a dying breed, and with the convenience of AT, worsening traffic, high-pressure lives, and higher disposable incomes, it is understandably so.

The above is a very incomplete picture, and could easily give an incorrect understanding of a TC-AT. The increase in torque and higher gearing gives the impression of somehow the energy in the system magically increasing giving the benefit of taller gearing, and by implication higher FE due to increased torque. It is not a case of increased energy in the system, but of reducing energy losses in a TC.

Writing further for the other readers too. Adding further points to the topic too. Will use simpler terminology. Roughly:
.

• A Torque Covnertor is a sort of a clutch in it's prime function - to disengage the gears (transmission) from the engine power to felicitate gear changes and to allow stopping the car without stopping the engine.
  .
• It is a modified fluid coupling. A fluid coupling simplistically being two shafts, with fins inside a fluid chamber, with one side (input) supplying the torque and the other side being driven (output). A common example given is that of two table fans being put face to face and turning on one will also make the fins and shaft of the other to move. This is a highly inefficient process. Which is why the modifications to the fluid coupling which make it a TC.
  .
• A Torque Converter, at the least with have another part modifying fluid flow between the two "fans". This helps in reducing energy losses. This is not really new and inherent in the design of a TC.
  
  (The Input side fin/fan connected to the engine is called an Impeller. The output side connected to the gears/transmission is called the Turbine, and the modifier part the Stator. There are more parts too.)
  .
• When the input shaft's speed is low the losses in a fluid coupling are very large (think of the fans example above). The modifier (stator) is such that at low speeds it can redirect the fluid in a way that it hits the fins of the turbine in a way which is more forceful thereby increasing torque. The point to remember is that at such RPMs the Output Fin and Shaft are moving much slower than the input. These losses are partly compensated by increasing the torque, which is translated into usable power by higher gearing at those low RPMs. It is by no means more efficient than a direct coupling of a Manual Clutch.
  
  .
  
  (source)
  .
• Check the curves above. There are many such available on the net. Have half-randomly chosen one.
  .
• As the speed increases, the role of the modifier (stator) is reduced, and the natural efficiency of the fluid coupling increases. One can note in the above, that as the speed increases the torque reduces to a near 1:1 ratio. As that happens the dy/dx (ie slope) of the efficiency curve reduces, leading to only marginal increase in efficiency with speed.
  .
• One also needs to specifically note the efficiency is at various speed ratios and at different RPMs. The last bit when it goes higher than 90, I suspect, would be to do with clutch locking (more on this later).
  .
• What is often missed, is a natural understanding from the above: That there isn't any energy gain by increased torque, but only redistribution of energy by lowering the RPM, which in effect is that the TC is also working like a reduction gear at low RPMs. A tiny bit like a low range gear with limited use. Also like a variable rate gear a little bit like CVT, in a sense
  
  Essentially, a higher torque at lower speeds at the output as compared to the input. In this case with varying efficiency and a variable rate of input to output ratio and torque.
  .
• This can have some benefit in a drag race like situation when coupled to an appropriate gearbox, as the initial low-rpm response can be improved due to effectively having an extra low variable rate gear without the time-loss of changing gears. It may or may not be practically useful based on the design implementation, but I guess it often is.
  .
• The fluid coupling based TC also does not completely disengage as the fluid will transfer some energy from the input (impeller) to the output (turbine) which allows low speed crawling and since it is at an increased torque, can also help in some off-road situations subject to final ratios and design. The flip side of incomplete disengagement is energy losses and poor efficiency when the vehicle is stationary. (auto start stop helps this, but questionably bad for the car, and potentially terrible for the turbo in some situations). MT also, of course, has losses at idling.
  .
• The Clutch locking at high RPM is an addition which allows one to lock the input to the output getting it to function like a manual clutch transmission, which is where you see the efficiency bump from 90 to 100 percent.
  .
• With modern cars having numerous sensors, chips and computing becoming cheaper, it is natural to be able to modulate the ECU to increase efficiency in an AT, and also in an MT. It seems an AT is a much bigger gainer, and the difference even in FE between the two is also reducing. With more gears, and as compared to poorly driven MTs, an AT also has a chance at delivering a higher FE (as it is relatively less influenced by how it is driven and would help the inexperienced).
  .
• With regards to the original point of the torque of XUV700 MT having 420NM vs the AT having 450Nm: assuming that the car has requisite design and implementation, at high RPMs due to the TC locking the clutch it would have a higher torque, but that is less useful. At lower RPMs, it will suffer due to inherent inefficiencies, even though those inefficiencies are reducing. What those numbers are will not be commonly available. Much would also depend on the specific design implementation and gear ratios of the unit, and how it combines with the rest of the car (other parasitic losses, weight etc).
  .
• How well it has actually been implemented in the XUV700 is only a guess. The seat of the pants feel one might rely on at such times, can easily mislead, as what one typically feels is the peak acceleration (maximum dy/dx of a speed vs time plot), and not the overall acceleration or torque. Vehicles with a significant turbo-lag are often perceived to be more exciting and faster accelerating due to this; and they may or may not be faster. (We have examples about this on the forum from the ol' days )
  .
• PS: Recently ended up driving an AT XUV700 for a bit, and was much happier with the MT experience, but that could simply be due to my preference towards MT, and how I like to be in control of things. Not everyone relates to riding the torque curves of an engine, and being aware and connected to it while driving; and awareness of how the vehicle will react to throttle inputs in different situations. Electric cars will soon make that history; one which I will fondly look back to.

Summary:

- A TC helps reduce the energy losses by using a modifier (stator) at low RPMs by acting like a (variable rate) gear which reduces speed and increases torque (a simple visualization would be being in the first gear vs a higher one)

- At higher and stable RPMs a clutch can engage within the Torque Converter to function like a manual clutch would in a limited scope. In such a state, it has similar efficiency as a Manual Clutch Transmission.

- There are no energy gains by the increased torque (obvious) as it is compensated by reduced speed. Gear ratios would need to be designed accordingly to use this increased torque, which too would have it's limitations due to it's variable effective ratio.

- With time and technology, a TC is getting closer to a manual clutch, but still not as efficient (check graph). As a Transmission overall, the AT gets even closer to an MT (and in some situations surpasses it), due to higher number of gear ratios (the later iteration of the Endeavor, IIRC, had 9 gears to made do with a lower torque engine), and bigger gains from chip based computations.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Poitive

May the force be with you, in March itself

Wish you the same and Thanks a lot.
March might be difficult but lets see

Originally Posted by Poitive

A TC helps reduce the energy losses by using a modifier (stator) at low RPMs by acting like a (variable rate) gear which reduces speed and increases torque (a simple visualization would be being in the first gear vs a higher one)

Here's a video/animation which noobs like me look at to understand, I personally think its quite well explained and those old style animations could be easily ignored for the quality and simplicity of the content.

Credits to Providers :

YouTube : Lesics

[NPV]

Originally Posted by NPV

I have (finally!) started thinking about replacing my first gen Dzire VXI, please share your thoughts and guide me in my hunt for the next car.
....
Cars to consider
1. Mahindra XUV 700
2. Tata Harrier
3. MG Hector (no Diesel automatic?)
4. Mahindra Scorpio N
5. Tata Safari
6. Hyundai Tucson (way over budget?)
7. VW Tiguan ? (have no idea about this)
8. Jeep Compass (can't seat 5 adults?)

I test drove both XUV 700 and Harrier in Diesel automatic avatar today.

Harrier felt much more airy inside, probably due to additional height. Also, I liked the stance and driving position of the Harrier. The Harrier's rear glass reminded me of the Jeep compass though!

Next, I will do a test drive of MT versions of both these cars, just want to compare them with their AT counterparts.

Price-wise, both XUV 700 AX 7 AT (without AWD) and Harrier XZA+ Dark edition are almost the same

[NPV]

^^^I've decided on Harrier Diesel Automatic, but choosing the variant has become a difficult proposition for me
Please share your thoughts on the Harrier Automatic thread - Link (2020 Tata Harrier Automatic : Official Review)

[DieselWanderer]

Hello BHPians!
Need some advice, I am happy owner of a 2017 XUV500 W6 D-AT and this is my daily driver for the last 6 years. The car has been maintained promptly every 10k km at Authorised Mahindra service centre and has not let me down anywhere. But recently the car went for its 180k kms periodic service where the service advisor pointed out that my car needs major overhaul which includes new turbo, rear shocks, ac compressor, rear bearing assembly and the estimate is touching almost 1.7 lacs. The last major service was around 1.2 lacs where i changed my front shocks but till now the car has not given any major repairs/issues. The advisor also says the car is nearing end of life as its driven 180k kms in 6 years and major parts like engine block/gearbox look weak.(dont know what makes him say).

Now I use this car for my daily office purpose which includes visiting construction sites/coal mines (100-150km min per day) and now with such news I am losing confidence in taking this to such remote places and looking to let this go and get a new one
Now the dilemma is what car do I replace my xuv500 with? My needs are quite simple

- Safe highway cruiser with capabilities to tackle bad roads 20-30% of time
- Reliable Diesel automatic
- Comfort features: AC/Power windows/A decent music system & cruise control
- Budget of max 25lacs on road

Thanks

[BleueNinja]

Originally Posted by DieselWanderer

Now the dilemma is what car do I replace my xuv500 with? My needs are quite simple

Harrier XZA or XUV 700 AX 5 D AT are your best two choices in the given budget and requirements.

You can get good discounts on Harrier XZA. Harrier XZA is more feature loaded than AX5 but lacks sunroof. Both the variants that I have mentioned costs the same.

If you need a 7 seater then Safari XTA+ is the variant in your budget. It comes with sunroof but has 2 airbags I guess but it comes equipped with rear disc brake and auto hold.

I would urge you to take test drives of both the car with family/friends on same set of roads and choose the one that suits you based on your preference and analysis.

Detailed analysis of both the cars is present in above posts by poitive, myself (harrier) and others.

Cheers!