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Old 16th December 2021, 00:49   #46
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Hyundai Tucson - some thoughts and considerations
(also a bit about judging a car from it's side profile)


I did consider this at the initial stage. For a new one, the spend was more than acceptable, and buying a used diesel vehicle becomes an issue in Delhi, as it has only a 10 year lifespan vs 15 outside it. The depreciation happens based on the 15 year life, whereas the Dilliwala gets 5 lesser years. Despite that, I gave it some thought, considering the much appreciated engine,it being a multilink suspension, and a generally appreciated vehicle on the whole. The bland interiors and features being of lesser consequence to me.

While checking out cars, I do look at their side profile to get an idea of two aspects:

1. Sloping roof: A significantly sloping roof tends to be one with insufficient headroom for me.

A significantly sloping roof also often tends to make for a less airy cabin.

2. Window lines: Cars often have much higher lower line of the window nowadays and top may often not be high enough and sloping further lower towards the back. This makes for a less airy, and often even cramped feel at the back.

I guess this is due to cars often being designed with the typical western market in mind, where the focus is mainly on the front row, and rear considered for occasional or kids' use. In India, it is different. Am taken back to the days of Ford Ikon, and it's designers being taken aback at the brief being that it may be a chauffeur driven car in India, and the rear bench is to be given due importance. They found that hard to digest for a car of that size

Back to the Tucson.

Choosing an SUV up to 22L | Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector Plus, Compass, XUV700, Kicks, Scorpio N-hyundai-tucson04.jpg
The image is from our own forum.

Check the roof and window in context of the above.


The wheelbase too being barely Renault Duster;s and much below the Hector/Harrier (though it just might be enough), made me think of the vehicle not being okay in the rear for my purpose (headroom, airy, legroom/footroom).

It also only being available as an AT was the last nail. More on AT vs MT in another post.

However, if I feel in a corner with no happy alternative, who knows, due to it's engine and maybe huge discounts before the next iteration gets launched, it just might be in consideration again.

@Mods: Have kept this as a separate post and not merged with above, as it is likely to make more organized reading, and much simpler quoting; especially for mobile readers. In case deemed unfit, please merge. It is surely not for any disregard to forum norms, but to meet the end-result better.
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Old 16th December 2021, 01:13   #47
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashi792 View Post
Hector or Hector Plus suits your bill. But, I would strongly suggest you to TD an automatic once. Probably start with Harrier (since it's already on the list). Even if you end up buying a manual, TD an automatic vehicle once.

The vehicles of the category in which you are looking are very practical with automatic than with Manual (the stress of driving & parking within city limits is easier).
Thanks, Shashi. Hector remains prominent in the list due to it having lesser troublesome aspects (especially knee-console issue). Interestingly, I got stuck in a major traffic jam in the TD of the Harrier MT, and found it pretty easy to drive. More on MT vs AT below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitSat View Post
I would second that. If you are facing any back issues, it’s better to go for automatic.

Do TD Harrier/ Safari duo in AT. They have done better justice to engine/ GB combo , than even Jeep. Also with automatic, the issue of left knee jutting against the console would be mitigated IMO.
Manual vs Automatic Transmission - a few points in my case

Mates, I quite stopped counting the kms I've driven once I crossed about half a million about a decade ago (mentioned on the thread earlier). It has built a big instinctive feeling towards MT, and how one feel's the engine and it's torque (regardless of how powerful an engine might be). I almost never faced issues with Turbo-lag which many complained about all these years of diesel use. It is also an issue of retraining one's muscle-memory after all these kms. Not easy.

Knowing I can downshift and hit the torque hill/plateau when needed, especially while overtaking, is a control I want to have in my hands, than to delegate it to some preset/programming; and then try to outdo the programming by certain throttle input manner. (This further gets complicated by drive modes, IMO). Like many, I find the decision to be in the right gear effortless (the kind one can make in one's sleep). FE based coasting to the really occasional boy-racer like manner.

Possibly due to the bigger than average build, I don't find clutch a major effort even in cars others do. Many complained about the Cruze, which I happily drove for several hours at a go. I do appreciate that in bumper to bumper traffic it can be a boon, but thankfully I've been blessed to have less of that in my life, and when it is there, it is often with me on the rear bench.

My perception about automatics might be incorrect. I just never found them appealing enough to drive them much. Would be happy to be corrected and have views on it from fellow mates.

I do appreciate the points brought forward by NS about the knee issue being mitigated to a large extent, and how it might ease of my back.

Would be good to have views about automatic transmissions and back issues from fellow mates. Please share.

Quote:
Btw cudos for writing a ‘Concise Treatise of Cars in 15-20 lakh ‘ segment. It’s so extensive, that it should be used as a ready reckoner, for this segment.
Thanks for this, mate. While writing, I was ever wondering if I was writing way too much, and how it might make it too boring for anyone to bother to read, and if the effort would be a waste. Good to know it isn't. Mates at T-Bhp have not disappointed.

@Mods: Regarding Multi-quote/posting, please refer to note in the previous post. Thanks.

Last edited by Poitive : 16th December 2021 at 01:16. Reason: Not to mods
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Old 16th December 2021, 02:10   #48
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
As an owner of the Creta, I would like to point out that while the Creta is on a similar platform, it's suspension is a middle- ground tune, neither as firm as the Seltos or as soft as the Hector. The Creta has a more comfortable rear seat than the Seltos inspite of the same footprint. Ergonomics wise, it's more or less the same. Do check it out before ruling it out entirely.
Thanks for your views, @fhdowntheline mate, especially for sharing your view as a user/owner. Yes, the suspension was a huge issue for me in the Seltos, but not the only one. The engine too felt short wrt the Optra. But in case nothing else seems to fit in enough, I might be looking at the 1.5 litre diesels again.

The other issue, if you might help with your views, mate: how airy is the cabin of the Hyundai Creta from the rear bench. That is what pulled the plug of the Seltos for me. If even close to the Seltos, I can't see myself being happy with it.

Contrary to many, I actually like how the Creta looks from the rear, especially in white. What didn't work for me is the front, and how it all ties up together, but with as many requirements as I have, this might be something I'd need to overlook.

Incidentally, the odd time I was driven in the old version of the Creta, I had issues with egress from it, with the gap between the B pillar and rear bench falling short. It was almost embarrassing. Is the new one a lot better in this regard, mates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZT View Post
Any reason why the Astor has been ruled out. You can get the top most variant ~ 20 l and is a good alternative to the Seltos / Creta. Creta is still the GOAT in that segment though so definitely check it out before deciding.
Thank for the views, @ATZ. About the Creta, please check the part above.

Astor: The wheelbase being 2585. I have tried to focus on ones with a wheelbase of at least 2600. Sometimes, a surprise might be in place though, so I did sit in one, while at an MG showroom. After adjusting the seat to my comfort in the front, I could barely even squeeze in the rear. It surely felt cramped and unsuited in comparison. A Hector was absolutely lavish in comparison.

~~~~~

Too tired now, mates; will reply to the rest later. Thoughts on Kushaq/Tiagun too; also a bit on XUV700. Sorry. The replies have very happily overwhelmed me

Last edited by Poitive : 16th December 2021 at 02:17. Reason: "Thoughts" onwards in the last line + a bit (Creta egress Q)
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Old 16th December 2021, 09:17   #49
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Poitive, you have written a very detailed guide on the mid size SUV market wrt the thing that matters the most to an enthusiast: how it is to drive. You're my kind of guy.

While the Compass has stolen your heart, and rightly so, the knee hitting the center console is a deal breaker, especially since you're getting the manual. Had that not been the issue, I'd have strongly recommended it to you.

The Hector is the best fit for you. Unless you can wait for the XUV 700. Do take a test drive of the XUV 700, though. I feel that it'll make you want to cut a deal with a dealer to give you a cancelled one sooner.
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Old 16th December 2021, 11:16   #50
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
[b]

Haha. A pleasure, Tony. I so resonate with what you say here. Nothing else seems fun enough. Others might have more power, but the character of torquey diesels has a taste of it's own.

Interestingly, I have usually been okay with most MT gearboxes for day to day use. Few stand out as being really much better for me. For a MT, gearbox will only be a tiny consideration, amongst many other constraining factors. In case, I do look at AT, will keep your suggestion in mind, mate.

Views on the Tucson below. About the features mentioned, they are really not much of a priority and are mainly taken into consideration while deciding on the trim level, once the basic car has been figured out, or if there is a close context between two satisfying ones. I've happily lived with an Optra LT, after all.

I didn't really go into enough details of this. In case you or anyone is aware as to which cars being discussed has which, please share. I suppose 2.0 liter ones will be with NSC and 1.5 and below with SCR.
Sorry to correct you but actually it's the vice-versa of what you quoted that is, the big diesels (2.0,2.2L etc) are SCR ones which means they have an additional AdBlue tank whereas the smaller diesels are NSC ones (sans AdBlue), the latter uses some fuel to burn off the NoX whereas the former with the help of AdBlue(essentially urea solution) catalyses the NoX into something less harmful and polluting. Our interest lies in the fact that the bigger diesels are somewhat more robust in dealing with DPF issues better than the smaller ones as had also been described in the forum somewhere else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Hyundai Tucson - some thoughts and considerations
(also a bit about judging a car from it's side profile)






While checking out cars, I do look at their side profile to get an idea of two aspects:

1. Sloping roof: A significantly sloping roof tends to be one with insufficient headroom for me.

A significantly sloping roof also often tends to make for a less airy cabin.

2. Window lines: Cars often have much higher lower line of the window nowadays and top may often not be high enough and sloping further lower towards the back. This makes for a less airy, and often even cramped feel at the back.

The wheelbase too being barely Renault Duster;s and much below the Hector/Harrier (though it just might be enough), made me think of the vehicle not being okay in the rear for my purpose (headroom, airy, legroom/footroom).
[
Yeah, from the looks of it Tucson does seem to have a issue with headroom and wheelbase being lesser than Hector triplets seems to be less spacious too but keep in mind the fact that it's dimensions are bigger than segment stalwart the Jeep, also the rear backrest has a very healthy range of recline angle and regarding the knee room and leg room I have found it to be more than adequate, for reference my height is perfect 6' and the bench is wide as well so TBH there ain't a issue of space even though it appears to be a bit claustrophobic from outside, lastly I don't know about pre-facelift models but with the facelift Hyundai made the huge panoramic-sunroof as a standard equipment in the Tucson which more than makes up for the small window area due to rising belt line and safety wise its covered too as 6Airbags,ABS, ESP with VSC&TC are part of standard equipment as well. So, IMHO if you take a thorough test-drive the picture will become clear for you but one thing I can assure, you'll love the 2.0 R CRDi, man it's at par with BMW X1 20d with 185PS/400Nm and the automatics are actually extremely good as you might have experienced in the Harrier/Safari Auto, also being a Hyundai, you get a fuss-free ownership and good after-sales support. Anyways it boils down to personal preference and I can just advise and suggest you from my knowledge and experience, the final call has to be made only by you. Happy shopping time ahead!

PS- Even though I'm a fairly recent BHPian I have had been following this forum for more than 10 years and had read about your Chevrolet Optra thread then only, I always desired those big diesel rockets but never had the budget to buy one but now I find myself to be very happy and satisfied by helping you to make a decision . Rated the thread a 5star

Last edited by Tony2298 : 16th December 2021 at 11:18. Reason: Quoting only relevant details of the post for easier readability. Thanks!
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Old 16th December 2021, 11:27   #51
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallicar View Post
1. Right now if I am getting Taigun top model i.e. 1.5 TSI DSG for X lac rupees then Harrier XZA+DARK is going to cost me X+1.5 lacs and Jeep Compass Limited 2.0 D MT for X+3 lacs.

2. My driving is usually Delhi to Gurgaon and mostly highway.
Congrats on owning one of my favourite cars, the most understated elegance in design of them all, even edging the Mondeo by a bit (in style).

1. Hope you have also factored in the +5 years life cycle for the Taigun over others in the costs.

2. I would say if you're ok with sedans wait for the Slavia. I would guess an ETA of deliveries starting by end of Feb is reasonable but still a guess. And if the VW twin launches then it might just hit the sweet spot in design.

On the other two I agree its a difficult choice. Brilliant drive with an uncertain future and a safe future with a better wow but lower FTD factor
IMO niggles and service is not something that's going to be a deal maker/breaker in this case considering the limited options.

I would still suggest to wait for the Slavia if possible.
Good Luck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
I didn't really go into enough details of this. In case you or anyone is aware as to which cars being discussed has which, please share. I suppose 2.0 liter ones will be with NSC and 1.5 and below with SCR.
In case you missed this is quite an informative thread from a professional : ninjanayak (All your questions about DPF & BS6 Diesel answered by a Diesel Calibration Engineer)
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Old 16th December 2021, 12:44   #52
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Mod note: Trimming quoted post, please avoid Quoting entire large post for replies. Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Hyundai Tucson - some thoughts and considerations
(also a bit about judging a car from it's side profile)
--------------
@Mods: Have kept this as a separate post and not merged with above, as it is likely to make more organized reading, and much simpler quoting; especially for mobile readers. In case deemed unfit, please merge. It is surely not for any disregard to forum norms, but to meet the end-result better.
Tucson has achieved zero crash test rating in Latin NCAP. In Euro NCAP and Ancap it has achieved 5 stars which means the build quality of car is not same across the globe. However the drivability and handling is unlike typical hyundai so thats a strong point. ASS is another plus. Brakes are satisfactory and seats are hard.

Last edited by Jaggu : 16th December 2021 at 12:49.
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Old 16th December 2021, 16:34   #53
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Quote:
Originally Posted by superchamp View Post
I wouldn't take an early call on this. Crysta fit the bill perfectly IMO. I had the same apprehensions when i brought one but everything has been dismissed since I have started using it regularly. It is bulky for sure but for city driving it is same as any other SUV you have shortlisted. Parking is an issue at you cant squeeze it in to tight spaces. I have the AT one and it is completely fuzz free.
For long drives, i don't think any other car-suv-muv can beat the Crysta.
It is a bit expensive but if you look the preowned route, you may get a good deal plus you have the mental peace of reliability that only the Crysta offers you.
Thank you for your views, superchamp. I really do appreciate the Innova Crysta a lot. Always have, even in it's earlier "avatars" (Qualis). It is a very practical choice for someone who has a lot of long distance use and heavy usage. I've often recommended it to others (on the forum too).

For my use case, it becomes a bit different as:

* Unlike the earlier years, I now have way lesser long distance travel.

* Delhi allows only 10 years for a diesel, so the extra life doesn't allow this to be the 'other car ' in it's later years, thereby largely negating it's longevity benifit.

* I expect it to give a lower FE.

* The large size is something I have an issue with even in the Harrier and Hector, but the appeal of the shape and SUV look/feel compensate to an extent.Parking especially. It is painful, as I don't hand over my keys to a parking attendant.

* Beyond a point the bulky feeling is something which further takes away from the driving experience. (sure there are exceptions)

* Somehow I'm totally uneasy with the van/MPV look; well beyond the average person. While I'm very happy being driven in one, but really not so to drive it myself.

* When I've been driven in one, have found the ride a bit stiffer and less comfortable than the Optra. These were client's cars, and not overinflated tyre-pressure taxis.

* There typically will only be 1-3 people in the car.

* In my use case, it would unlikely bring enough over a Hector to make it a more favourable option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Folks, the replies may not be in the order the posts were made, as I might often end up replying to one from the phone, while between other tasks; so even if late, reply I will.

Last edited by Poitive : 16th December 2021 at 16:37. Reason: Formatting. TP point.
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Old 16th December 2021, 17:17   #54
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbojet View Post
The plastic on front passenger seat was torn and number plate had a TC sticker. One look at tread was enough to gauge the real condition. The dealer cant be trusted now.
Oh wow that is just horrible! Ah well.. next year then. Shall be waiting for those facelifts. Maybe a new Honda SUV or a Toyota one to entice me
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Old 16th December 2021, 18:05   #55
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Quote:
Originally Posted by quattroa4 View Post
Why not Renault Duster 1.3 L Turbo ? 156 BHP + Excellent ride quality at any speed .
Through the Duster at any speed at any terrain , it never unsettles and in this ride department I don't think any other car comes close to it . Try at least a test ride.
Thanks for sharing your views, quattroa4. You have an interesting lineup of cars What do you think of the below? Is the new setup roughly as good as the famed one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
I remember the older versions being famous for it's suspension and balance of an excellent ride and good handling, but I suppose that suspension that built Duster's reputation isn't available anymore. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
....

Renault Duster Turbo Cons:


...
Ride quality is good, but retuned suspension & 17" rims have taken the "magic" away
...
Another report by Bhpian @Samba
says:


Quote:
Suspension-

Absolutely same as before. I was expecting a stiffer one. But no, they have not done any changes. The driving dynamics are same as my Duster AWD. At higher speeds the car under-steers at corners, the steering still has the strong kick back.
Link (Renault Duster 1.3L Turbo Petrol launched at Rs. 10.49 lakh)

Last edited by Poitive : 16th December 2021 at 18:13. Reason: Added reports by GTO and Samba
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Old 16th December 2021, 19:18   #56
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Re: SUV/Sedan upto 22 lacs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallicar View Post
I am in market for getting a new car. I am currently driving a 2012 preowned Jetta 2.0 TDI DSG
....
I would have loved to try the Slavia but its a long wait and no inputs on exact pricing.
....
Seltos/Creta/MG are out of question.
....
Options in my mind - Taigun, Jeep Compass, Harrier
....
My driving is usually Delhi to Gurgaon and mostly highway. I don't drive inside the Delhi much.

So guys can you help me out here in choosing a car ?
Welcome to the thread, Metallicar. I got a bit confused seeing the replies to your query due to how threads get merged.

While I remain unsure about what suits me, sharing my 2 paise:

While selecting the Optra a decade ago, I remember thinking that it is somewhat like a totally stripped down Jetta, as the wheelbase and dimensions were similar, as were the engine specs and suspension setup.

The closest experience to that might come from the Slavia, especially due to the centre of gravity being a lot closer to the Jetta. Cons: Newly introduced, hence greater chance of issues. The shift from turbo-diesel to turbo-petrol characteristics would remain, of course.

Without having driven the Taigun, I expect it to be agile and much fun to drive. If the size suits you (and as @shancz too said, it will allow an extra 5 years of life in Delhi), it might be the most pocket friendly of current options (extremely high usage notwithstanding.

Harrier can't be called agile, yet is much fun, but a very different character due to it's size and centre of gravity. Please check if the ergonomics work for you.

About niggles: It is good to distinguish between niggles and failure. While some find it okay to manage niggles, most don't accept breakdowns.

Compass is a whole lot of fun to drive and if you do wish for diesel characteristics and want agility, this is the one! Do consider other factors (including about the company), and if you can handle those, and accept an MT, this is immensely enjoyable, though not as comfy as the others.

Given it's small number of sales, the issues shared about the Compass on the Official Review, are not encourage.

I realize you ruled out the MG Hector. In case you find MT acceptable (as you do for the Compass), do consider checking out the Diesel. It is not half as bad as many reviews and "Chinese car" impressions might make one believe. There seems to be a high ratio of happy users on the forum.

In case your budget allows, might be worth considering the Tucson, as @Tony2298 suggests strongly further in the thread (his passion is infectious). I expect it to have the best overall balance for someone wanting an AT, and is okay with the spend.

Since you reached here due to a merged thread, you just might have missed the initial few posts (#1 to #9) which list out fairly detailed impressions about a few in the segment and might find them worth going through.
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Old 16th December 2021, 19:55   #57
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbojet View Post
Tucson has achieved zero crash test rating in Latin NCAP. In Euro NCAP and Ancap it has achieved 5 stars which means the build quality of car is not same across the globe.
The Tucson scoring 0 stars in the Latin NCAP has nothing to do with its build quality, but has to do with missing safety features. The base model sold in Latin America is very bare bones compared to the one available in India. Over there, it comes with only 2 airbags, no ESC and no 3-point seat belt for the rear middle passenger. Hyundai also didn't recommend a Child Restraint System (CRS) for the car loosing it more points. Some of these factors made it an automatic 0 stars.

Here's a link from Autocar India about this:
https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...sh-test-422943

And of course a thread on Team-BHP with much more detail:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...ml#post5213860 (Latin NCAP 2021: Peugeot 208, Hyundai Tucson)

In short, the Latin-NCAP rating doesn't apply to the car sold in India.
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Old 17th December 2021, 00:24   #58
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Re: SUV/Sedan upto 22 lacs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallicar View Post
@Kosjam - Jetta I purchased at 33k on odo after certification from VW workshop. Water pump failed and timing belt etc had to be changed. Total - 52k (Including service)

AC failed - Local compressor installed. Failed again and now a unit of Passat has been installed but the car needs condenser change.

Flywheel changed at 72k kms. No DSG issues till now.

Roof headliner costing 12k replaced under insurance though. Jetta is famous for AC compressor failures, water pump failures and sagging roof liners.
After reading stories like the above, one really wonders why it is the likes of Tata and Mahindra which people fear in terms of reliability. Mate, if you've been used to the above, a Tata is unlikely to make you too unhappy with service. Usually, being on good terms with the staff goes a long way.

Quote:
Currently my heart is tilting towards the Harrier but I am scared too. It is going to be my costliest purchase till date.
~~~~

I'll assume this was for @Metallicar There is a slight confusion due to merging of threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by i_s_bajwa View Post
Rank 1: Harrier
Rank 2: Compass
Rank 3: Taigun

~~~~
Jeep's spares although durable, might take longer to reach in case of limited/no inventory when replacement needed.
.....
- FNG Advantage: Comparatively, easily serviceable / repairable from Friendly Neighbourhood Garage or familiar mechanic being Tata unlike VW, the most complex.
The good thing about Jeep is that they do manufacture it here in Ranjangaon and also for export (though the numbers are meager), and hopefully the spares at the A$$ should not be a big problem. It could easily be an issue if they do leave the country. There are very few service centres as well. (Delhi has only one!)

Thanks for the FNG point, mate. This is something I had not considered at all.
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Old 17th December 2021, 00:59   #59
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint_Krish View Post
This is a really good thread @Poitive!
.....
So here is what I have tested so far (most of this were automatics)

Mahindra Stable:
I have tested the XUV 700 AX7 L and the first impression is whoa this is definitely a class apart! Space and power wise it will not disappoint you (I am spoilt by a 2014 GT TDI approx. 215 NM/Tonne)
A year and a half of waiting period just completely threw me off this one though.
....
VW / Skoda:
Yes it will be a turbo petrol but do try the VW Taigun GT (might be better than Kushaq in terms of the ride). Fit n Finish may not be old VW levels but the drive inspires so much more confidence than many others in this class......
Only concern for me is that I am inclining towards an automatic and I am truly scared of the DSG.

Hyundai/Kia:
.....

TaMo
Safari was the one I tested here but hardly 2 or 3 kms in stop and go traffic for majority of the duration. Not right to comment on this I guess.

What have I decided?
Well i am thinking to stretch that budget to 25L to include Harrier, Safari and the Jeep. For me the drive matters a lot and nothing really ticks all boxes.
...

Wish you all the very best in your endeavour though!
Thanks for the compliment, wishes, and detailed views shared, Krish (thread ratings might help visibility) We really need a miracle to get absolutely clear on this decision

Besides the delivery times, concerns of initial batches, needlessly large size for my purpose, interior finish are also concerns for the XUV700 for me. However if you do have time, maybe you should book (refundable?) to be higher in the queue.

That you're coming from a 215Nm/Tonne Polo with very little overhang, did you not find the XUV700 too bulky and not agile enough? The driving characteristics should be immensely different; also considering the CoG.

Taigun is very much up on the list, in case Turbo Petrol's make it to the mix, however reading stories such as that of @Metallicar above, do not inspire confidence. The Optra's decade was quite Toyota like for me. In terms of finish, I really was never too impressed with VW (I usually tend to look beyond the badge and at the product) even in the yesteryears.

Kia/Creta: We agree - the power bit.

If the ergonomics work for you, the Harrier should certainly be in the list. Jeep, if you are okay with factors beyond the product itself (service centres, long term viability of the India operation, spares cost etc etc) - the product itself is much fun to drive. You just might go in for an MT and get it in a somewhat stretched budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbojet View Post
Jeep's driving dynamics and handling are class apart
I went to check a fresh car in dealer's stockyard and it had 150kms on the odometer. The plastic on front passenger seat was torn and number plate had a TC sticker. One look at tread was enough to gauge the real condition. The dealer cant be trusted now.
This is sad. I would normally say that one should not let a dealer experience make one stay away from what is otherwise a good product. I too had a bad one in my first try for a TD for the Optra (detailed in the threads linked in the first post) a long time ago, but persisted with another dealer and ended up with a decade of fruitful experience. That said, the issue with Jeep is that it rarely has a second dealer in a city. Makes things complicated.

Quote:
XUV300 looks like a compact suv with boot chopped off at last minute.
Had I been limiting myself to it's price bracket, this might have been seen as a big plus, with more space being available in the sitting area, at the cost of the boot. Ideal for a tall city use vehicle. For it's outer dimensions, I think it has the biggest wheelbase by a distance, and that is what pulled me to it. It has a 2600mm wheelbase in the under-4m category! The Creta/Seltos have 2610mm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint_Krish View Post
Oh wow that is just horrible! Ah well.. next year then. Shall be waiting for those facelifts. Maybe a new Honda SUV or a Toyota one to entice me
When facelifts are launched, it might be a great time to get the outgoing one at a good discount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piyush Kanthak View Post
I think you should go with XUV 700,
....

If not then go for Compass, you will never regret it but you will only get the base model��
Will not recommend Hector because you love driving, Hector isn't great in driving Dynamics so it will always bring a question whether you bought a car or smartphone
Thanks for your views, Piyush. The XUV700 delivery really is a bummer.
Compass: I really don't care for most of the missing features in the entry Sports model, except electronically folding ORVMs. Any idea if they can be installed post purchase?
Hector: Did you get a chance to drive one, mate? I actually didn't find it as bad, as shared in the initial few posts.

Last edited by Poitive : 17th December 2021 at 01:05. Reason: Minor changes, refinements, removal of smilies from quotes as it was >2 in total.
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Old 17th December 2021, 01:39   #60
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Re: Choosing an SUV up to 22L (Spacious, Urban) DRIVEN: Seltos, Harrier / Safari, Hector /Plus, Comp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
I didn't really go into enough details of this. In case you or anyone is aware as to which cars being discussed has which, please share. I suppose 2.0 liter ones will be with NSC and 1.5 and below with SCR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony2298 View Post
Sorry to correct you but actually it's the vice-versa of what you quoted that is, the big diesels (2.0,2.2L etc) are SCR ones
I am thankful for the correction mate. I tend to remember concepts and easily get mixed up with abbreviations. Am still new to the DPF world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shancz View Post
In case you missed this is quite an informative thread from a professional : ninjanayak (All your questions about DPF & BS6 Diesel answered by a Diesel Calibration Engineer)
This indeed is a very good thread, shancz. I did go through it and have recommended it to others in the past. Thanks for bringing it up. I recommend anyone interested in the topic to go through it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony2298 View Post
Yeah, from the looks of it Tucson does seem to have a issue with headroom and wheelbase being lesser than Hector triplets seems to be less spacious too but keep in mind the fact that it's dimensions are bigger than segment stalwart the Jeep, also the rear backrest has a very healthy range of recline angle and regarding the knee room and leg room I have found it to be more than adequate, for reference my height is perfect 6' and the bench is wide as well so TBH there ain't a issue of space even though it appears to be a bit claustrophobic from outside, lastly I don't know about pre-facelift models but with the facelift Hyundai made the huge panoramic-sunroof as a standard equipment in the Tucson which more than makes up for the small window area due to rising belt line and safety wise its covered too as 6Airbags,ABS, ESP with VSC&TC are part of standard equipment as well. So, IMHO if you take a thorough test-drive the picture will become clear for you but one thing I can assure, you'll love the 2.0 R CRDi, man it's at par with BMW X1 20d with 185PS/400Nm and the automatics are actually extremely good as you might have experienced in the Harrier/Safari Auto, also being a Hyundai, you get a fuss-free ownership and good after-sales support.
Right after reading your post, I could have just gotten up and gone fora TD, with a cheque in hand! Exaggerations aside, your passionate suggestion got me really thinking, and thankfully it was a light work-day, and I spent much time looking the Tucson up. The Compass was anyway in a pretty stretched budget, and stretching it even further despite Covid related impact to life did not seem prudent. Even checked up used (not much inclined to start with) but the ones available were without the sunroof and the stuffy rear seat thought put me off. Had it been available at the price of a Harrier/Hector with an MT, I'd certainly be much inclined to overlook some of the other issues.

For reference, I did find the inside of the Compass cramped, and the only reason to look beyond was the immensely enjoyable drive.

Without a TD, I do appreciate what the Tucson brings on the table: A good city friendly size, without being too small, an immensely powerful torquey engine, all 4 disc brakes (surprisingly Harrier doesn't have those), service assurance, and most of all a good(?) independent multilink suspension, and more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbojet View Post
.... which means the build quality of car is not same across the globe. However the drivability and handling is unlike typical hyundai so thats a strong point. ASS is another plus. Brakes are satisfactory and seats are hard.
True, TJ. Cars indeed are different. Seltos body-shell changes being an example. Thanks for the other points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordrayden View Post
....The base model sold in Latin America is very bare bones compared to the one available in India. Over there, it comes with only 2 airbags, no ESC and no 3-point seat belt for the rear middle passenger. Hyundai also didn't recommend a Child Restraint System (CRS) for the car loosing it more points. Some of these factors made it an automatic 0 stars.

Here's a link from Autocar India about this:
https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...sh-test-422943

And of course a thread on Team-BHP with much more detail:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...ml#post5213860 (Latin NCAP 2021: Peugeot 208, Hyundai Tucson)

In short, the Latin-NCAP rating doesn't apply to the car sold in India.
Thank you, Rayden mate. This indeed was helpful. I anyway tend to give limited value to crash ratings and more to how well controlled a vehicle feels, the brake and stability aspects, and especially the tyres and pressure being in appropriate shape (and if not, driving accordingly). If some basics are in place, in many cases, hitting something at a slightly slower speed will take care of a a star or two, in my highly subjective opinion. Tyres, and how well controlled a car is, is underrated in my opinion, and ratings overrated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_grin View Post
Poitive, you have written a very detailed guide on the mid size SUV market wrt the thing that matters the most to an enthusiast: how it is to drive. You're my kind of guy.

While the Compass has stolen your heart, and rightly so, the knee hitting the center console is a deal breaker, especially since you're getting the manual. Had that not been the issue, I'd have strongly recommended it to you.

The Hector is the best fit for you. Unless you can wait for the XUV 700. Do take a test drive of the XUV 700, though. I feel that it'll make you want to cut a deal with a dealer to give you a cancelled one sooner.
Thanks for sharing your point of view, evil_grin mate. Basic cabin comfort and the driving experience is what I first focus on in a car. If I am not comfortable in my seat, what use is the finish on some part of the dash being soft of hard? If I don't feel confident in the control of the car, how much is a crash rating worth? If I don't get that smile while driving, what use is that sunroof in a tropical country?

We largely share similar views on the subject. Not completely over the Harrier too, as yet. It is kind of middle ground between the Compass and Hector, with additional issues (eg NVH) of it's own. The head and heart need to find their balance, and acceptable comfort, for this likely last regular-fuel car to be used for about a decade.

OT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shancz View Post
...even edging the Mondeo by a bit (in style).
Back in the day, I too loved that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony2298 View Post
PS- Even though I'm a fairly recent BHPian I have had been following this forum for more than 10 years and had read about your Chevrolet Optra thread then only, I always desired those big diesel rockets but never had the budget to buy one but now I find myself to be very happy and satisfied by helping you to make a decision . Rated the thread a 5star
This was indeed heartwarming to read, Tony I thought the VVS Optra and it's days on the forum were long gone and forgotten (a decade, after all!), and thanks for helping me with my decision, and sense of camaraderie - it brings back memories from the ol' days of the old Choosing thread and the Optra thread.

Thanks for the rating. It does not show up as yet, I suppose, due to insufficient votes.

Last edited by Poitive : 17th December 2021 at 02:00. Reason: Added reply to evil_grin, misc tiny bits.
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