[Lalitha Venkat]

Originally Posted by Bhatt

Not doubting the consensus on the forum on VW cars general unreliable nature.

What I am unable to fathom is, how is VW group able to sell millions of cars each year, be either the No.1 or 2 manufacture globally, if they are as unreliable being touted?

Surely I am missing something.

The DSG has faced issues in India and Skoda has several horror cases in its service side of business. The DSG issues have been largely resolved by VW in the past few years and I am sure people in the forum would agree that its considerably reduced after 2018. It is a complex mechanism compared to TC GB. Its got its own driving pleasure which any average Joe can recognize and hence it sells IMHO. People take EWs etc to keep the fear at bay

[niruvrs9669]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Both are intended and marketed for different purpose. Yes seats 7, based on same hilux platform and gets similar interiors but that's where the story ends. Crysta 2.4 doesnot(2.8 was fantastic) have the power of 2.8 motor neither does it get 4x4 capabilities. Crysta is more comfortable and practical but If I am driving, I would anyday pickup the Fortuner over Crysta. Steering is more direct, the stiffer suspension is boon on highway and makes for good driving experience. If driving fast across corner is the need of the hour, then both are not the right cars, a soft roader like Kodiaq/C5 should be easy pick.

Also I am surprised that in an enthusiasts forum, Fortuner's engine, which is best in business gets hardly any mention/credits. The 200HP motor is notch above 3.2L Endeavour.

I've done close to 22,000 km highway runs (Bangalore-Kurnool & Bangalore-Mysore mostly) on Crysta 2.4 Zx AT in last 5 months. All I can say is that the ride quality is composed and power is more than adequate for highway runs. The marginal increased tyre width does help in bettering it's road grip. The 6 speed auto does hunt for gears with my heavy foot at times.

Fortuner's 200 hp power, 500 NM torque, 4x4 hardware doesn't translate to much of performance on highways with it's tall body design. 0-100 kmph in 11+ seconds is only marginally better than Crysta that comes out as a winner from a corner.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by niruvrs9669

0-100 kmph in 11+ seconds is only marginally better than Crysta that comes out as a winner from a corner.

In normal and sports mode, Fortuner does 0-100 in less than 10 seconds.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by niruvrs9669

Fortuner's 200 hp power, 500 NM torque, 4x4 hardware doesn't translate to much of performance on highways with it's tall body design. 0-100 kmph in 11+ seconds is only marginally better than Crysta that comes out as a winner from a corner.

The Innova itself is not too short at 1795mm it's just about 40mm short of Fortuner. Despite being heavier Fortuner has better power and torque to weight ratio too. That said neither is a corner craver and have high center of gravity. I have been driving Crysta 2.4 MT close to 90K KM and 16K KM in Fortuner, the 200HP motor for sure has noticeable advantage when it comes to outright performance.

[jbpanda]

Voted for the Fortuner. The factors which played in my mind for going with the Fortuner was because of sheer peace of mind, reliability, road presence, 2.8L diesel engine with power at disposal and usable 3rd row with boot space. Also because I am keen on owning one in the near future unless Jeep Meridian makes the choice difficult.

[hendrick]

First, Thank you for having me on this Forum.

I am looking to have your inputs on my impending car purchase. I presently own a 2014 Toyota Fortuner which has clocked about 180,000kms. I am now considering to replace it and need your valuable inputs.

In recent times, my car usage has increased. While the first 100,000 took 6 years and the next 80,000 was clocked in just 2 years with 50 to 75 kms each day commute for work, to go with weekly outings and monthly vacations. While the daily commute is Chauffeur driven, the weekly and monthly vacations are self driven - either by wife or myself.

The need is to accommodate 2 adults and a teen, 25 days a month. Once a month, I take either my parents or in-laws for a trip/vacation. So, a 7 seater would be the preference.

Must be built like a tank! Safety is a priority. Middle seat comfort and ride quality has to match Fortuner or better it. I have a slipped disk and cannot comprise on ride quality.

The options I have are iSuzu MU-X, Gloster & Fortuner.

Fortuner - Test drove and there is no real urge to buy the same Fortuner. But, if there is no option, I would be just about "Okay" with replacing Fortuner with Fortuner.

Gloster - Interior feels refreshing in comparison to Fortuner. More comfortable than Fortuner in middle row. Average ride quality compared to Fortuner. Body shakes in potholes bothered me a lot. Such a big car cannot go over potholes with less shake?

iSuzu MU-X - Ride comfort was terrific to Gloster. Middle rows are even better but at the cost of 3rd row, which is fine for me. Ride quality & comfort is superb. How is that even possible, I still wonder!

I still cannot phantom Gloster & iSUZU test drive results. I am planning to test drive again, probably this weekend.

Anyway, As of now, surprisingly, I prefer MU-X. It suits me great, is a no nonsense car but not with the decision makers within family. Going by their word, I have to go back to Fortuner.

The only variant in iSuzu costs about 44L against 48L of Gloster. With Fortuner, I only require 4x2 so that leaves with only 1 variant at 46L. So, not much to bother on budget.

My confusion begins with, Should I now consider Diesel considering a minimum of 2000 kms/month? Remember, this is going to be beater car! Because, if its Petrol, I have to go back to Fortuner.

Also, Can iSuzu withstand the heavy usage? I hardly see any car on road or even in their service station for that matter! Is the car reliable? How about Gloster? By reliability I am not expecting a Toyota Reliability, but say, 100,000 kms of fuss free ownership? Can MG and iSuzu actually be a beater car? Would I go wrong in choose iSuzu? Reason for iSuzu failure?

-

A different perspective to look at my situation is buy a EV and replace Fortuner with sub 25L 7 seater? Issue here would be, trading off in cabin space. Innova base variant comes under 25L. Is there any other car to be considered?

Recently, another thought is "Might as well extend budget and splurge" on something like a Discovery Sport. But, again, a beater? Maintenance cost? Is there any 7 seater around 70L worth considering? If I get a better ride quality and comfort than Fortuner, I am willing to give it a go.

Summarising,

- Require a beater 7 seater car with excellent ride quality and comfort in middle row.
- Should Diesel be considered?
- Spending 45L on iSuzu / Gloster as a beater car looks a scary prospective.
- Spending 45L on Fortuner feels unnecessary.
- Should I buy a EV and a Sub 25L 7 seater?
- Is 70L category worth considering for better comfort? If yes, Options?

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by hendrick

Summarising,

- Require a beater 7 seater car with excellent ride quality and comfort in middle row.
- Should Diesel be considered?
- Spending 45L on iSuzu / Gloster as a beater car looks a scary prospective.
- Spending 45L on Fortuner feels unnecessary.
- Should I buy a EV and a Sub 25L 7 seater?
- Is 70L category worth considering for better comfort? If yes, Options?

Given your monthly running, petrol engines are ruled out or else the Kodiaq would have been a great option, especially with its excellent ride quality in comfort mode.

I'd stay away from MU-X due to dated engine/powertrain and wafer-thin dealer network. Not worth the price IMHO. Gloster is pathetic when it comes to low-end grunt - city driving will be a pain.

I guess your best bet is to buy an Innova diesel, subject to dealers accepting bookings, and top it up with an EV (Nexon Max or MG ZS) for city runs.

Edit: I have not recommended the Fortuner, given its ride quality is still stiff, even despite improvements with the facelift.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by hendrick

First, Thank you for having me on this Forum.
- Require a beater 7 seater car with excellent ride quality and comfort in middle row.
- Should Diesel be considered?
- Spending 45L on iSuzu / Gloster as a beater car looks a scary prospective.
- Spending 45L on Fortuner feels unnecessary.
- Should I buy a EV and a Sub 25L 7 seater?
- Is 70L category worth considering for better comfort? If yes, Options?

Welcome to Team-BHP.

If ground clearance is not an issue, the Kia Carnival fits your requirements.

You may get a petrol Innova Crysta when travelling with family and get an EV or a comfortable sedan / MUV or even Altroz diesel (5* rated) for your work related travel. You can also get something like a C5 aircross and hire an MUV or an additional car when travelling with more than 5 people. If you are not in a hurry, Škoda too would open Kodiaq’s booking, but it would be having a petrol only option. People with higher mileage have tough times ahead.

[hendrick]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

I guess your best bet is to buy an Innova diesel, subject to dealers accepting bookings, and top it up with an EV (Nexon Max or MG ZS) for city runs.

Well, I just checked with Nandi Toyota, they aren't allowing even a Test Ride for Diesel Innova. I am inclined with MG ZS.

If I go up the ladder in budget, would a Discovery Sport be worth it?

Originally Posted by Sheel

Welcome to Team-BHP.

You can also get something like a C5 aircross and hire an MUV or an additional car when travelling with more than 5 people.

I will surely checkout C5. I think hiring MUV for monthly outings sounds great. How would Discovery Sport hold up as a beater other than maintenance cost?

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by hendrick

I am inclined with MG ZS

It is a good choice if you have made up your mind to go for an EV. Go ahead and test drive it. Be prepared for lots of upfront planning (with regard to charging points etc.) for those long intercity drives, though.

Originally Posted by hendrick

If I go up the ladder in budget, would a Discovery Sport be worth it?

That's quite a jump across price brackets! Your use case does not seem to be clear enough. If you are looking at the luxury segment then you are better off with GLC, X3, etc. when it comes to reliability and brand value.

Edit: Why not test drive the latest Fortuner, just for the sake of it? It might pleasantly surprise you, as it is leaps and bounds ahead of your current one.

[hendrick]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

That's quite a jump across price brackets! Your use case does not seem to be clear enough. If you are looking at the luxury segment then you are better off with GLC, X3, etc. when it comes to reliability and brand value.

I felt that going up the ladder might increase ride comfort. I have noted your suggestions. Thank for the same. I am going to take another test drive of Fortuner and ZS EV. I will surely keep updating the forum.

[deepaksarch]

I have been driving a Honda City for the last 11 years, and I am in need of a new SUV. However, I have been postponing my decision since the first COVID lockdown. I have reluctantly increased my budget from 20 lakhs to 25+ lakhs for obvious reasons. I am specifically looking for a 7-seater SUV with a bigger boot, so that I can occasionally carry oud dog on outstation trips. While the XUV700 and Scorpio N are good cars, their aesthetics are not 100% convincing to me. The Safari looks good, but I cannot say that it is THE ONE. I am not considering other SUVs for various otherreasons.

Occasionally, my philosophical atma (soul) wakes up and tells me that this will probably be the last car of my life, as I am approaching my half-century (age). I am not getting any younger by the day. All these years, I have worked hard for my family, but I have not really bought any big-ticket item for myself. My savings are decent, and my son (who is doing his engineering) will have decent wealth at his disposal. He can take enough risks at the start of his career and will have decent financial support until he settles down.

My antaratma (inner voice) is telling me to get a Fortuner now (provided bookings are open again).

1. I can get a Fortuner 4x2 AT Petrol under 42 lakhs on road and Diesel under 45 lakhs.
2. I can save around 25% if I avail of my company's car lease option.
3. In the worst case, if I happen to sell my Fortuner, say after three years, I'll get a good resale value.
4. Assuming the total life of a car is 15 years, the per-year cost of a new car and the per-year cost of a resale one won't be much different. So, why buy an old car?
5. I'll get unmatched reliability and longevity with the Fortuner.
6. Fortuner has one of the cleanest, classiest, and ageless aesthetics.
7. I'm aware that the steering is a bit hard, and ride comfort is not the best, but these are not deal-breakers.
8. I'm not a fan of fancy gizmos.

It would be great if you can share your views that can help me out.

P.S. I have noticed that buying a Fortuner from Gujarat would be 4-5 lakhs cheaper than Maharashtra. Would it be legal to buy a car in Gujarat and get it registered in Maharashtra?

My company lease policy may not allow it, but going solo (even without taking any kind of vehicle loan, thus saving interest) would be a more pocket friendly option? But there would be a lost opportunity of earning interest on money that I'll not be spending to buy a car (instead borrow it from a financial institution).

[Highflyer]

Hi Friends.

This thread came closest to my quest for a new set of wheels. If any FM finds a more appropriate thread then please let me know, I will shift my post there.

I currently have a Honda Civic, 2007. It was a pre-owned one bought in 2012 from Kolkata. That time I was working there and it worked out for me. It has completed 15 years in 2022. It did wonderful job over the last 10 years. Apart from minor issues, I never faced any major problems. It’s suspensions were changed about two years back and the ride became a little hard after that. It is a little too low and scrapes almost all speed breakers (car wreckers) on our roads. The seating is too low which makes entry/exit a problem for old age parents.

It was time to become a little aspirational and acquire something from lower luxury segment.
Having been bitten by the per-owned bug and realising exceptional value proposition that they bring, I have decided to walk that path again.

My budget is 30 lacs plus minus, for per-owned cars. If I decide on buying something new then 40 lacs plus minus, is the budget. Now, this might confuse a little bit, but new cars aren’t completely off the charts. In case, I am unable to get what I want from pre-owned category, then new ones would need minimum of that amount to get one. That too not from premium ones aka BMW, Merc and Audi. 40 lacs is for brands like Hyundai, Škoda, VW etc etc.

My Usage.

99% within city.
Approx 5-7K per year.
I stay in Hyderabad now which has decent roads but considering the growth of traffic and deteriorating roads, I would prefer something with suspensions that take care of bad roads.

My Requirements.

The new car should have the following:-

1.Automatic transmission for hassle free drive. Not looking for raging performance but something that works for comfortable city drives with traffic.

2. Very easy to ingress and egress. Neither too low like my current civic, nor too high, like Scorpio or other big SUVs. Basically the occupant should be able to slide in or out, with ease.

3. A 5 seater would do. Shouldn’t be very big. Considering driving and parking within city can be challenging. Smaller the better.

4. Features. Creature comforts like cooled seats, electrical seat adjustments, 360 camera (not a deal breaker), lumbar support, steering with both reach and rake adjustments etc etc. I am not a fan of sunroof considering Indian climate conditions. Problem is that, it has become a must have feature due customer demand. Good NCAP safety rating would be great.

Safety features wise, most of the contenders (listed later) are quite loaded. Safety features wise, Q3 and C5, were lacking in a few, while Tucson appeared to be punching way above it’s weight.

5. PLIANT SUSPENSION. The drive would be mostly within the city. The way our roads are getting speed breakers and pot holes I want want something that can soak them, at low speeds. High speed driving dynamics aren’t going to be a deal breaker, since long highway drives would be very rare and far in between.

6. Independent suspension. This flows from the previous point. Only an independent suspension can give a truly comfortable ride and negotiate imperfections with perfection. That’s where many cars like Creta, Taigun etc and similar ones went out of contention. After driving Tiguan and Tucson, there was no going back.

The Search

While trying to find the features listed above, I realised that Sedans are out of the picture, so were all big SUVs. It narrowed down to MUVs/MPVs. The independent suspension requirement further narrowed it down to luxury brands since, independent suspensions are available in only anything north of 30 lacs.

XUV700 and Harrier do have independent setup, but were ruled out because of their height.

The models that meet most of these criteria are:-

1. Mercedes Benz GLA (2017-20)

2. BMW X1(2016-20)

3. Audi Q3 (2017-20)

4. Volkswagen Tiguan (previous and current versions)

5. Škoda Kodiaq (previous and current versions)

6. Hyundai Tucson (current version only)

7. Citroen C5 Aircross (current version)

8. Volvo XC40 (2018-22)

Electric cars were ruled out due to very less driving and the extra premium for these, didn’t make sense.

In the process of decision making, I drove all Hyundai models from i20 N line to Tucson. Creta met most of the requirements, except the ride quality. Loved driving and comfort of Tucson. Drove Tiguan and found it to be a tad too firm but decent.

Impressions.

I compared the features on various websites and threads on team-bhp.

GLA/X1/Q3. Considering the budget, only the previous versions and pre-owned ones are being considered. I haven’t driven anyone of them though.

GLA has very nice suspension setup. Interiors are premium. Few features are lacking.
X1 is good, but is supposed to have a firm low speed ride.
Q3 has mixed reviews. Couldn’t find anything great or bad.

Tiguan. Solid car but the ride is a little firm at low speeds. The previous version lacks in few features.

Kodiaq. Very nice car. Meets a lot of criteria. Plush and full of features. A little expensive compared to similar crop of vehicles. Škoda after sales service is a hit or a miss.

Tucson. Amazing car, with features galore. Fun to drive and the suspension is great. Rear seat space is great. Considering pricing of C5 and Tiguan, it appears to be a better value proposition. Hyundai, after sales and cost of ownership is great.

C5 Aircross. Best ride quality in this category. Lacks in quite a lot of features considering its the price and others in this segment. Long term support and services aren’t yet known. Not very many available in pre-owned market yet. Not sure of it’s worth it, to go for a new one considering lack of basic features. @GTO’s comment on another thread rings a bell, where he says that it is better than entry level luxury cars that are listed above.

XC40. Ticks all the boxes. Couldn’t find any negative review. Full of features, solid built. Rear seat space is not as great. I couldn’t find a definitive review on it’s low speed ride quality. Very few are available in the pre-owned segment and are snapped up by connoisseurs as soon as one comes into the market.

The Dilemma. In my quest for this purchase, I have scoured the net, spinny Max, local dealers, Olx etc and have come to following conclusions:-

Pre-owned X1/ GLA/ Q3 of 2018/19 with 20-35 k on odo are available for 25-29 lacs.
Spinny prices are on the higher side but information provided is best. The buying experience is also mostly decent.
Local dealers can be hit or a miss. They all claim their goods to be of highest quality but people have faced issues later. Few lucky ones got good deals and experience.
Olx could be similar to normal dealers.
Delhi is most dicey in terms of things going bad and fraud.
Kolkata offers cheapest (lowest price) for all cars in this segment compared to other cities in the country. The odo readings were also the least on these cars. Am I missing something here?

Need Help. Need help from FMs on the following aspects:-

Is it a good idea to buy from any part of India and then take the car to Hyderabad? What are the likely issues?

If X1, GLA and Q3 are available, with similar reading on odo and same year of manufacturing, then which one to choose and why? Just remember that only the previous versions of these have been considered.

- Have I missed anything important in my assessment of various aspects?