[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

For our family, reliability is of utmost priority; we want no gearbox failures, no EPC errors, engine not starting the next morning for whatever reason, a well established after sales network. This is where the Fortuner clinches the title from the Kodiaq, for me.

This is one part of the story, I am seeing a serious issue on the other side ie. Showroom Sales Experience!

//Start of Rant

I am in Pune for 2 months for my internship, had some free time and decided to take a long test-drive of the Fortuner AT.

Called Sharayu Toyota at 10AM and no answer, again called at 12PM and no answer. Mind you there are 2 numbers given. One was the landline, and according to the landline’s automated lady, executives/SAs were busy dealing with other customers calls at both 10AM and 12PM. The other mobile number was just going unanswered.

Decided to dig out the GM Customer Service’s number, and he finally made the desk lady at the showroom call me. I asked for an AT Fortuner and the answer was we only have a MT Fortuner, we are yet to order the 2022 AT Fortuner. She passed on my details to a SA, who called me at 2PM stating the AT Fortuner has gone somewhere.

Called up the other dealer Shaw Toyota. They had a AT Fortuner for test-drive.

Let me also add, that I had been to a Tata Dealership just prior to the Toyota one here, and the effort from both Tata Motors and it’s SAs is clearly visible and is filled with customers; even if the dealerships feel like Kirana Stores with not working ACs and Fans.

Reached Shaw Toyota at 3:30-4PM and was surprised to see absolutely no customer around! Except a family getting accessories fitted on their yet-to-be delivered Innova Crysta. And there was not even one Hilux either on display or for a test-drive.

There were 2 SAs who were lounging peacefully on the couch. The desk lady asked for my license, which I duly provided for them to take a copy of. Maybe looking at my age of 21 years, coming to test-drive a Fortuner, she initially refused to give me back my license stating when you come back after the test-drive take it.

One of the lounging SA was called, he reluctantly got up. I could sense what was going on in his head, “Well you Sir want a test-drive of the Fortuner? I know all my competitors in the segment don’t sell well and you’re going to come back here today or tomorrow”

The desk lady then gave my license to the SA when I had ‘climbed’ onto the driver seat. The SA thought it was a learner’s license told him no it’s a permanent one dude, get up from your slumber buddy (didn’t say the last part ofc)!

The SA was so uninterested that he didn’t care to even ask which car do you drive, what do you do, etc etc.

I had to start the conversation, told him I have a 14’ Fortuner. And Boom that’s when his eyes opened, getting to know that yes I am a serious customer.

Told him my biggest drawback of the Fortuner, ie. the bad ride quality. He agreed to it as well. I said the Innova Crysta is a better choice in terms of comfort, he agreed immediately.

Meanwhile I was discussing the price of the Fortuner. Told him we had bought our Fortuner for 27L OTR in 2014 and today’s price is 60L OTR for the top-end. Initially the reply came as yes they have been increased a lot and later but so have other cars as well. I left it at that.

Coming to the test-drive, the only talking point of the Fortuner is it’s diesel powertrain and excellent road-presence.

Even in ECO mode there is so much grunt that even after accelerating with a slight dab, one has to let go off the accelerator to keep the car within the speed limit and then the car coasts at a relaxed RPM (as if the gearbox has disengaged).

I told the SA frankly, if you guys wouldn’t discontinued the Crysta 2.8L AT, I would’ve not have been testing the Fortuner here.

Unfortunately Toyota just can’t settle the ride quality of the Fortuner, slightest undulations can be felt inside and you always know the road conditions. Can’t be so hard to get something right, when the Prado/LC200 offer brilliant ride qualities.

An existing Toyota customer is needed to get gets these guys attention in a showroom, to somehow retain them within the brand.

There was a Red VW Virtus GT Line Test-Drive car just ahead of us and the SA stated what a beautiful car, I agreed wholeheartedly.

Waiting period according to the him is 2-3 months irrespective of colour/variant. 4X2 AT regular Fortuner is the highest sold variant by a good margin. White/Silver/Attitude Black are the colours in maximum demand. I told him I like the Sparkling Black, and he said yes it’s a very unique colour. Fact of the matter is even our 14’ Fortuner is in the very unique Silky Gold Mica Metallic, in the sea of white Fortuners and the SA agreed.

What I liked about the car was the road-presence, you dwarf absolutely everything on the road, towering above everyone. Makes one feel as if, yes one has reached a certain stage in his/her life. This is the biggest reason this SUV sells the way it does! Just for perspective, according to data, almost 20k Fortuners were sold with prices ranging between 40-55 Lakhs this FY. 20K sales for a 40-55 Lakh car is absolutely crazy, no manufacturer has achieved these kind of sales figure in this price range!

This SA was the only one who I have met so far who said “Sir Regular Fortuner is excellent, the Legender is just a cosmetic show going on at an inflated price.”

My strong advice to TKM would be, tell your dealers to not be on Cloud-nine, rather keep one foot on the ground even if the other is sky-high! Give attention to non-Toyota customers as well. This lacklustre dealership attitude was something I didn’t expect from Toyota India at all! If this somehow enters service stations, you’ll be out of the country in no time at all! And teach your dealers how to pick up some phone calls, calls going unanswered umpteen times is absolutely ridiculous. Overconfidence can destroy everything that you’ve built over the past years, yes the Fortuner’s true BoF competitors remaining in the country are very few, but no need for the unnecessary King-like attitude.

This is something I just didn’t see and experience at the Pune dealership, I have been observing it and seen it grow at a steady pace even at Lakozy Toyota, with whom I have maintained and bought 2 cars from in the last 15 years.

Talking about our usecase;

Being absolutely honest here, Fortuner is a highway cruiser, if speeds are decent it smothers the worst of roads with aplomb and feels indestructible. But for the city, even with the easy-to-drive nature of the AT Fortuner the ride quality is something I absolutely don’t like even with the facelift. Getting more used to comfortable cars, and keeping the Fortuner for only highway duties was still thinkable but then our BMW is an All-rounder, excellent ride quality in the city and brilliant composure on the highway. This brings me to the point, where do we really need the Fortuner, when the Innova can do the same thing at a cheaper price and with much better comfort.

Seems like I’ll have to change my vote to ‘other’ and choose the Innova Crysta. The Innova Crysta does 95% of what the Fortuner does at a cheaper price and with much better comfort. Yes you will miss out on the road-presence and 4WD capabilities but 85-90% Fortuners sold are 4X2! Now only if Toyota India hadn’t discontinued the 2.8L Innova AT . I am almost confirmed that our 14’ Fortuner will be replaced with the Innova Crysta or Hybrid Innova, whichever feels better at that time.

//End of Rant

[SShandilya]

I’ve voted for Kodiaq.

99% of people driving Body on frame SUVs don’t even have such usage. Most are city drives.

I wonder and I chuckle why spend so much money for a vehicle which has a hideous ride quality and the irony is most people buy them to be chauffeur driven ! Blows my mind. (Only exception I’ll make for is Thar and that’s because no other car under 20L have the bragging rights like it)

Kodiaq is such a nice city drive. I’ve driven the last gen diesel auto and was in love with it. It’s got sedan like drive which solves your ride quality issues and has enough height to keep those city potholes and water wading problems at bay.

If I truly require a 7 seater, I’d go no further than Innova which actually has a usable 3rd row where one doesn’t even feel claustrophobic (at-least in captain seat version) and out of all BoF vehicles listed above, has the better ride quality

[grosserimperial]

I can vote yet but Option 1 for me is Kai Carnival and later on MG Gloster. For the next 4 to 5 years I will be on the road a lot and both the vehicles are excellent mile munchers. However both the vehicles are currently not affordable to me

[arjyamaj]

Living in a semi-rural area with access to some of the nicest expressways in North India, I need a car which will be able to manage narrow village roads AND do triple digit speeds all day long. I dont need a lot of space - just enough for four people. So, my vote is where my money is - behind the Jeep Compass, which I've owned for the past four years.

If I were in the market for a new car (which I'm not), I would dismiss the Fortuner, Gloster and Carnival as being too big and unwieldy. I've never understood the fascination for bigger cars. After all, a car has to get you from point A to B and put a smile on your face while doing so. Size has little to do with it.

I'd also dismiss the Kodiaq for being a Skoda!

I might take a look at the Meridien, but the lack of tech, especially at the price point it has might be off-putting. Might just consider the Tiguan.

[RaceHorse]

Voted for others, I am seriously looking forward to the next gen Hyundai Tucson.
I am expecting this to be a better 7 seater compared to other SUV's listed.
I have dropped idea of purchasing Kodiaq as I am now worried about DSG concerns,
and dismal 3rd row seating.

[bullitt1]

Voted for Meridian, being owner of 22 Compass 2.0D MT. Whatever shortcomings the Compass/Meridian have, having a Jeep in garage is a different feel altogether. Kodiaq may come close coming to handling, its just not practical with petrol only engine.

[anoopGTkrish]

There isn't a car in this list that I wouldn't love to own at some point. But realistically if I had the budget to own one, my pick would be the fortuner.

1. Unmatched reliability
2. Excellent road presence
3. Ridiculously high resale value
4. Relatively cheaper to maintain

At this budget, practicality might not be the first criterion for anyone, but for a middle class day-dreamer like me, even the dreams should have excellent value for money and ROI.

[amol4184]

The other day I had a chance to look at Carnival up close and I am sold on it. For same money as Jeep Compass I will go for Carnival 10/10 times.
Fantastic space which I value a lot and will make for an incredible holiday/road trip vehicle for large group of people.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

I am seeing a serious issue on the other side ie. Showroom Sales Experience

My buying experience was not as bad, although I agree that the monopoly Toyota enjoys in certain segments has led its sales personnel towards a callous attitude. Thankfully, after-sales service is top-notch, arguably the best I have experienced so far. From a sales perspective, my experience with Ford has been the best till date, absolutely stellar.

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

Unfortunately Toyota just can’t settle the ride quality of the Fortuner, slightest undulations can be felt inside and you always know the road conditions.

While it is no Endeavour, the facelift Fortuner has come a long way compared to its predecessors when it comes to ride quality. I am surprised that you could not appreciate the improvements compared to your 2014 Fortuner. Did you check the tire pressure in the test-drive car? Like any other BoF SUV, the Fortuner is very sensitive to tire pressure variations and ride quality can deteriorate exponentially with even slight over-inflation.

[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

My buying experience was not as bad, although I agree that the monopoly Toyota enjoys in certain segments has led its sales personnel towards a callous attitude. Thankfully, after-sales service is top-notch, arguably the best I have experienced so far. From a sales perspective, my experience with Ford has been the best till date, absolutely stellar.

As I mentioned, maybe the fact that a 21 year old guy had come to test-drive a Fortuner, didn’t bode well with them.

Although in comparison I had visited the Jeep, Tata, Volkswagen and Hyundai showrooms to test-drive a few cars that I had on my mind across various segments and no where did I receive the same lack-lustre response that was given by the Toyota folks, clearly it’s the Fortuner’s dominant position in the market that has made the SAs what they are. The Hyundai SA actually went ahead and praised my driving by saying a 21 year old driving so calmly and brilliantly hasn’t happened with him till now, most SAs when they see a young guy in his early 20s come for a test-drive expect their car to be driven in a very rash manner, I can understand their fear as well and they have full right to exercise caution.

After-sales, no doubt Toyota is the King! My Fortuner’s steering spiral cable has gone kaput, sent a mail to Toyota India about the issue late at night, immediately in the morning the first call received by my dad in whose name the car is registered was from Toyota addressing the issue and the solution to the problem being provided at the earliest.

A brand still caring for a 8 year old car, that too for a small issue, is what I call top-notch customer-centric attitude. No wonder most Toyota owners always upgrade within the brand, us included when we upgraded from the Innova in 2014 to our current Fortuner.

While it is no Endeavour, the facelift Fortuner has come a long way compared to its predecessors when it comes to ride quality. I am surprised that you could not appreciate the improvements compared to your 2014 Fortuner. Did you check the tire pressure in the test-drive car? Like any other BoF SUV, the Fortuner is very sensitive to tire pressure variations and ride quality can deteriorate exponentially with even slight over-inflation.

I didn’t specifically mention it in my above post, but have always posted in other threads whenever there is a comparison that the 2021 facelifted Fortuner’s ride quality is leaps and bounds ahead of my 2014 Fortuner…

Now coming to the actual test-drive, I know dealerships often over-inflate the tire pressures, and even I didn’t care to check the pressure at the time of the test-drive, my mistake there. The test-drive car being a 4X4 AT had 18 inchers, maybe the 17 inchers are better.

It’s just that with 2 people in the car, the SA and me, every small undulations were felt inside the cabin and made the ride very jittery. After a while I started hating that continuous jittering or it’s just that I have got too used to the other comfortable monocoque SUVs we have. As we all know the Fortuner being BoF works best when loaded where the ride improves. Several other BoF cars have/had brilliant suspension setups like the Endeavour, Pajero Sport, Gloster and Alturas G4; it can’t be that hard for Toyota to sort the Fortuner’s ride out.

Now for our use case, the car will be driven in the city and highways both, out on the highways the Fortuner is the best handling BoF car by a long shot but it’s in the city that the jittery ride quality almost makes it a dealbreaker!

And I’m not degrading the Fortuner, as my first choice whenever we sell our current Fortuner amongst whatever options are available, the facelifted Fortuner will always be on the top. I posted my driving experience of the Meridian in the respective thread, I have clearly mentioned there that I would still go with the Fortuner.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post5335370 (Jeep Meridian Review)

[kurups]

The voting seems closed as on date, but my vote would have gone to the Kodiaq.

Reason:-

1) My usage being daily office commute which is around 20 kms +/- (So not having a diesel suv variant is not a concern) and occasional outstation trips from my place in Bangalore to nearby areas. Always owned a petrolhead and would like to continue with petrol.

2) The 3rd row leg & knee room is more or less same in all these SUVs (if the 2nd row is adjusted properly). Having a 5+2 seater suits me better compared to just a strict 5 seater. Helps if you need to transport an extended family/parents/kids or sometimes ur neighbour & family.

3) The looks of Skoda Kodiaq (A beautiful suv, especially side view) beats every other suv in the list. Not speaking of Road Presence here, for which marks can go to the fortuner.

With Skoda volumes growing and better products being launched in India and Skoda opening more service centers, I guess the focus on customer centricity will go up and we as customers can hope for equally better service too from Skoda.

[CarEnthusiast24]

Hello Bhpians, this is our first post on team bhp,

Me and my dad own a skoda rapid diesel DSG and we love it, but the car is now very old and we have decided that its time for an upgrade. We are planning to buy an SUV under 50 lacs since gurgaons roads are not well suited to sedans.

Our requirements are:
AWD/4x4 (Must have mild off road capability)
Under 50 lakh
At least 4 star NCAP Rating
Must be fun

Cars we considered:

Skoda Kodiaq: Our top choice so far, since we found the interior to be amazing and we love the way the exterior looks. My dad also enjoys the way it drives. However there is a new model on the horizon.

Jeep Meridian: Has great off road capability and decent interiors. However my dad found it very underpowered compared to the kodiaq and the car is not very comfortable (especially in the back).

Toyota Hilux: Extremely fun to be in as it has a very high driving position and you can take it literally anywhere. Very reliable. Looks awesome but is hopelessly impractical as its way too long to use in crowded cities. Also bad ride quality and comfort in the rear due to leaf springs and cramped rear seat.

Used GLC: Nothing inherently bad about it, but lacks any kind of fun. Boring exterior, boring interior. Basically not as good as the kodiaq but more expensive.

MG Gloster: Feature packed and very spacious. But my dad does not like the idea of spending 50 lakh on an unproven MG. And we arent sure about the build quality.

Scorpio N: Great Value and great at off roading but uncomfortable and lacks many features compared to other cars we are considering. Also very long waiting period.

Used Audi Q3: Inferior to kodiaq in every way. Only considering if we get a very good price.


Cars we are not considering:

VW Tiguan: Absolutely horrendous ride quality and uninspiring interiors. Not considering anymore.

Thar: Great at off roading but rubbish at everything else.

Hyundai Tucson: Good to drive and has many features but 3 star safety rating put us off.

Jimny: Again, 3 star NCAP Rating.

Fortuner/Legender: Extremely overpriced, not as fun as the Hilux and lacks many features compared to Kodiaq and Meridian. Also uncomfortable seats.

XUV 700: Tried and failed to get a test drive. Also not sure about reliability as we have seen many horror stories on team BHP.

Used BMW X3: Overpriced and lacks important features.


So the Kodiaq and Hilux are top choices right now, but do we wait for the new kodiaq or get the current one? Also is the Hilux practical for daily use?

Please help us make a decision BHPians! We are stumped.

[pratyaksh]

There are many many threads already on the forum discussing this very dilemma of the very sought after price bracket in these days.

The Skoda Kodiaq wins hands down. The new model coming up is slimmer and shorter, and would probably be priced around 60 large. Unless you're willing to wait for another year,and happy to spend 10 big ones more on an almost identical car with a 'big' touch screen, there's no reason left to not buy the current gen Kodiaq.

[bijims]

The Kodiaq is the best option you can get considering your requirements, it has almost all your requirements covered and is an excellent car overall, the next best option would be the Hyundai Tucson AWD, it scored 5 stars in the Euro NCAP in November 2021, but scored just 3 stars in the Latin NCAP tests in 2022, so not sure which one to go for, but regardless, it is an excellent package as well. But considering the fact that you are unwilling to compromise on safety, the Kodiaq would be the de-facto choice.

Waiting for the facelift which will launch sometime in 2024, may be an option as well, but remember, it will come at a premium over the outgoing model.

[greyhound82]

If am there in the market for upgrading my Harrier, it will be Fortuner. We are a two member family and didn't need that big a car but the reliability offered by Toyota is some thing I can't overlook ( being an entrepreneur bulding high precision automation software for NDT and quality inspection always Toyota factory and their process give me a confidence to go ahead )