[vivekgk]

Originally Posted by nandakumar

Dear BHPians,

For the last 2 months, am stuck at making a decision between Scorpio N 4WD and Tata Safari.

Background:

I wanted to upgrade from my Renault Duster AWD 110PS to a bigger SUV (Will never sell my Duster and use it as my second buddy) for my day-to-day usage.
I drive extensively on work and otherwise (Avg 2000 - 2500 Kms a month).
Usage - 80% on city / Highway tarmac and 20% on unpaved roads. Very rarely or almost no adventurous off roading
Car will be driven both by me and my wife and need to accommodate 4 adults and 2 kids with our luggage and camera gears.

It doesn't seem like you need "real" 4WD. The XUV700 has an AWD option, and the Safari has terrain response system, which can be useful in case you need it.

If you need all 3 rows in place, then none of these cars have any real luggage space left. But with the Safari or XUV, you do get the split folding 3rd row, which will give you some space, as long as one of the kids sit in the 2nd row.

Since you're driving 2000-2500 kms a month, you will spend less on fuel on the Safari and the XUV. My Scorpio-N's mileage isn't impressive, especially in city traffic.

For bad/no roads, the Scorpio-N feels solid, like nothing can upset it. Low-speed ride is better on the Safari and XUV. It will also be better for your camera gear, I think.

Personally, I feel that the Scorpio-N is the easiest to drive out of all of them, because it is shorter, and you sit higher with an awesome view. It also has the lightest steering. XUV and Safari have a longer dash and lower seats. I am pretty short, so your experience may vary. .

[bijims]

Considering your requirements, if you need a real 4WD vehicle, then the Scorpio-N 4WD is the way to go, else you could go for the XUV700 AWD or Tata Safari, or even the Innova Hycross Hybrid. But if you really need a 7-seater, the Innova would be the most comfortable of the lot with the highest mileage too.

[SaiSW]

The Safari is the best looking car here in my opinion, and an ideal option would be one that has the looks of the Safari and the powertrain of the XUV7OO. But since we can't have that, I'd vote for the 7OO. I do not like how the 7OO looks, but I guess it's easier to fix that (to an extent) with a few visual mods than it is to plonk a new engine into the Safari

Edit: I accidentally voted for the Scorpio, the 7OO is what I intended to vote for.

[sulliavi]

In reality, on the road, ScorpioN looks the best in my opinion. It has the old school SUV charm and cleaner look.

[ObsessedByFIAT]

I am in the market, looking for a replacement for my 2014 Ecosport tdci. It's almost 10 years old and since then the requirements have evolved. Thus I am looking at 7 seater options, preferably diesel with minimum 2L engine.

Though there are some good options, but the waiting periods are a big let down.

Scorpio Classic S11 is one on the contemplation list and wanted to get views from members about how good or bad would it be in this day and age?

My requirements are pretty simple. I do not need a lot of electronics in my car. (Sunroof, app based control etc.)
All I need is decent space for 6/7 passengers, capability to hook up my phone to infotainment system for maps, decent audio quality, height adjustable driver seat (lumbar support would be a plus), rear wash and wipe and most importantly, reliable for those 1000+km/day drives which my current ride does like no one's business.

[DieselWanderer]

Hello BHPians!
Need some advice, I am happy owner of a 2017 XUV500 W6 D-AT and this is my daily driver for the last 6 years. The car has been maintained promptly every 10k km at Authorised Mahindra service centre and has not let me down anywhere. But recently the car went for its 180k kms periodic service where the service advisor pointed out that my car needs major overhaul which includes new turbo, rear shocks, ac compressor, rear bearing assembly and the estimate is touching almost 1.7 lacs. The last major service was around 1.2 lacs where i changed my front shocks but till now the car has not given any major repairs/issues. The advisor also says the car is nearing end of life as its driven 180k kms in 6 years and major parts like engine block/gearbox look weak.(dont know what makes him say).

Now I use this car for my daily office purpose which includes visiting construction sites/coal mines (100-150km min per day) and now with such news I am losing confidence in taking this to such remote places and looking to let this go and get a new one
Now the dilemma is what car do I replace my xuv500 with? My needs are quite simple

- Safe highway cruiser with capabilities to tackle bad roads 20-30% of time
- Reliable Diesel automatic
- Comfort features: AC/Power windows/A decent music system & cruise control
- Budget of max 25lacs on road

Thanks

[low_rider]

Originally Posted by DieselWanderer

Hello BHPians!
................. the car went for its 180k kms periodic service where the service advisor pointed out that my car needs major overhaul which includes new turbo, rear shocks, ac compressor, rear bearing assembly and the estimate is touching almost 1.7 lacs. The last major service was around 1.2 lacs where i changed my front shocks but till now the car has not given any major repairs/issues. ...............

I would suggest go for a second opinion from a good FNG. Turbo problem will speak for itself. If the turbo is going bad, you cannot help but notice the reduction in power. Same goes with AC compressor. You will notice the reduction in cooling. However, before blaming the compressor for less cooling, I would suggest to get the AC filter and condenser cleaned.
A second opinion from a FNG will clear the picture.

[nutcracker]

I'm a proper victim of what I believe is our current government's worst policy: i.e. phasing out of Diesel cars in 10 years.

What I mean when I proper victim?
I purchased 3 diesel cars in 2014, Polo, Vento and Pajero Sports.

I purchased them after so much research and zest, they were going to be my mistresses for the next 15 years. But ah, such wasn't the case.

Anyway, it is time to replace my cars, which are all in perfect running condition. I will bid them an emotional farewell because even today there is no car in the hatchback segment that drives like the Polo 1.5 Diesel. Can you think of one? I cant. Replacing the Pajero, which I purchased for around 30L, will now cost me 50L for roughly the same segment (I'm thinking Kodiaq, Tiguan).

So we have to purchase two cars now. We require two now, not three. The first is ASAP. The second will be Q1 2024, for myself.

First car is going to be for my dad. He drives a LOT. So AMT, comfort and economy are a must. And we both are diesel lovers, so diesel it has to be (I will secretly pray for the rule to reverse in the meantime). For dad's car, strong torque is needed. He commutes to places with a lot of traffic, manual vehicles like rickshaws etc, so being abuse friendly is another aspect I'm looking for. Followed by the more than occasional loading of around 300-400kg in the car. The car's engine shouldn't slug when fully loaded.

Last but not the least, we want a great music system. Those days when we spent months configuring the ICE of our cars are long gone. Now a days thats too much of a headache since it involves forfeiting your insurance and warranty. Heck, I would still do it for better audio, but honestly, I just don't have it in me anymore to spend that much time and money trying to build my own ICE and think about sourcing parts and damping and cables and isolation and grounding and battery etc. Thus, we want a car that comes with a solid speaker spec from- the-factory, I'm thinking atleast with an amp. A subwoofer would be a bonus.

To put things into perspective regarding the audio quality, the Bose speaker system that comes in the new Verna is pathetic. The Kia Seltos' Bose system is strictly below average i.e. it can be absolutely smoked with a 30k Pioneer setup. Our VWs and Pajero Sports have rocking speakers, but over the years they have lost power (distortion!) which is natural. I'm looking for pure audiophile quality, clarity, and the most important aspect for automotive audio, POWER. Not power for loud music listenting, but power enough so that at moderate volumes I hear all the details and I don't hear distortion. I want the bass to be low as in sub-bass low, and the trebles to be sparkling. I work with a lot of professional audio gear so my ears are trained to pick up the slightest distortion.

Budget for the car is between 15 - 25L. Lower the expenditure, the better.

[AYP]

Let's look at the cars which fit your criteria and budget and also come with a 'proper' automatic-

1. Kia Sonet-

The top minus one variant can be had within 15L. The drive is smooth and the music output is supposed to be decent. Though I doubt if any car within your budget can come close to satisfying your sound output requirements. Maybe the Hector can, but it doesn't come with an AT in the diesel guise.

Also, I am not sure if a 'smallish' Sonet would be the ideal car to lug 300-400kgs of load with its smallish boot. You can ofcourse fold the rear seat. This is the best real diesel automatic option at the lower end of the spectrum and a good choice at that. Though coming from the 1.5 TDI(even if it is the 90Bhp version) the Sonet will feel like a slight downgrade in terms of performance. Even more so if yours is the GT TDI.

2. Kia Seltos/ Hyundai Creta-

The drive train is the same as the Seltos but with added weight thus affecting the performance. Though on the other hand, these would be better for lugging those heavy loads as compared to the Sonet by the virtue of their size. Can't comment much on the audio part but pretty sure that your audiophile self won't be very satisfied. These shall cost a lakh or two more than 20 big ones.

3. Scorpio Z8 AT-

BOF giant which can easily gobbled up those heavy loads without breaking much sweat. You get pretty much all the features that you need in this variant. You need to decide if the size is gonna be an issue or whether it could be an advantage. While the mechanicals are mostly sorted, electrical niggles do exist. Nope, your audiophile ears won't be satisfied. While it maybe slower than a Polo, the oodles of torque will make the drive enjoyable. This car would cost you just around the 25L mark and would be my personal choice if I had a very strict budget of 25L for a diesel AT. Waiting period is a big issue though since you need the car ASAP. If you stretch for the Z8L, you get the Sony system.

4. Safari XTA+/Harrier XZA-

You can choose either depending on your size and feature preference. While I wouldn't call these cars unreliable, reliability is not their strong suit. I'd still choose these over the Hyundais due to the 2.0 MJD. From a neutral perspective, these cars look like the best compromise with the puny 1.5 diesel Hyundais at one end and the more powerful and expensive XUV 7OO(the variant with meaningful features) at the other end. Again, even these would cost you around the 25L mark. Tata has a bazzilion variants on offer so you maybe able to get a few more variants in and around your budget.

5. XUV 7OO-

The AX5 will fit in your budget but along with Scorpio Z6, the feature distribution is pathetic with this variant. You get the blingy features like the sunroof and the LED headlights but you lose out on basic amd useful features like push start button, automatic AC, electrically adjustable mirrors etc. Heck, you get black coloured door handles in this variant, just like the el cheapo base variant of the entry level hatches.

This is unlike the Safari XTA+ which may not offer you these blingy features but covers all the basics and much more. If you can ignore these misses, then purely from a mechanical package point of view, this is the car to go for. This car does provide you the kick in the pants feel, which we, the torqueheads enjoy. I found this missing in the Scorpio. This car should be able to hall those heavy loads with ease. Electrical niggles are present though. The waiting period maybe a deal breaker though the situation has improved now and I have heard of people getting ready delivery of the AX5 variant.

If you don't mind stretching your budget by a couple of lakhs, the AX7 variant is quite a complete variant and is the ideal choice IMO. For the most of us, if not all, the next diesel car we buy may very well be our last diesel car, so if possible, might as well make the most of it. Have heard people getting the allotment for this variant in 4-6 months in the recent times. The audiophile in you may only be satisfied by the AX7L's Sony system.

My suggestions in the order of preference-

1. XUV AX7 AT
2. Scorpio Z8L AT
3. Scorpio Z8 AT
4. Harrier XZA
5. Safari XTA+
6. Seltos
7. Creta
8. Sonet

If by ASAP, you really mean ASAP, then I think the Tata's have the shortest lead time followed by the Hyundai trio.

[Axe77]

1. I really wouldn’t bank on the diesel ban going away in the future - so think hard if you are open to alternatives to diesel.
2. You haven’t mentioned what kind of mileage your dad does. Are they high miles within the city per day or frequent very long distance outstation trips.
3. How many passengers does he travel with when he’s loading 300 - 400 kg in the car. Is he lugging this luggage with only one / two persons in the car?

Depending on the above, I would encourage you to also look at strong hybrids and EVs. The cost of running will be spectacularly low - most likely much lower than diesel. In heavy traffic city driving conditions, both will offer great pull, even with load, specially the EV. The strong hybrid should easily be good for 15 years and more with only major maintenance to think of being the battery perhaps at some point. The EV should also have a decade plus shelf life, which should be worth it considering a diesel car in NCR (and likely most major cities) is going to be an issue in the next decade - not to mention dealing with DEF and similar issues with modern diesels.

Keeping the above in mind, I’d suggest the Toyota Hyryder strong hybrid, Tata Nexon EV Max or the MG ZS EV as your top choices, instead of any diesel vehicle. Each of these should broadly fit within the upper range of your budget.

[graaja]

+1 to Axe77. I think you should not be looking for diesel cars in the current scenario. Due to the strict emission norms, most of the diesel cars sold today suffer from DPF regeneration issues. And the diesel ban is not going to go away. In fact, it may be adapted in other cities soon.

If the usage is high and involves long distance travel, then a strong hybrid like the Toyota Hyryder or Maruti Grand Vitara strong hybrid are good options. If the car is going to be primarily used inside city, then an EV like Tata Nexon or MG ZS EV are very good choices.

[mgastor2022grey]

Hi @nutcracker,

For your use case, an SUV will be the best. Carrying 300-400 kgs load may seem difficult for small CSUVs, but is possible if you go for a bigger car.

If you want a reliable car, load hauling capacity and a good audio system, the best car out there is the Toyota Innova Hycross.

The GX 8 seater will be around 22-23 lakhs in Delhi, and is extremely reliable and comfortable. The only downer is the 4-speaker system in this variant, but a little tuning can do wonders! If you can compromise on the speakers, this is the car for you. You can get comfort, boot space with the 3rd and second rows folded (you need to take the 8 seater without captain seats for load hauling capacity) will be around 1600-1700 liters, and can withstand upto 500 kgs load (approximation).

Its also abuse friendly, and can touch 2.5-3L kms without any hassle. Sourcing parts are easy, considering it is a Toyota. Practical and driver-friendly car, inside your budget! Please give it some serious consideration.

[shadkhan]

Hi,
I am torn apart between the Scorpio N and the Seltos facelift. I am a well built tall man and feel like the N is best suited for me. I like the commanding high seat and the punchy engine. However Seltos is an all round package with every little fetaure one can expect along with frugality(minus the safety of-course).
With the Scorpio missing some basic convenient and good to have features, the choice is becoming tougher by the day.
I can afford the Seltos GTX+ and Scorpio Z8/Z8L Diesel.

My overall use would be 40/60 with highway on the higher side.

Please suggest your opinion.

[Ferruccio]

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[bijims]

Considering your requirements, I think the Scorpio-N suits your personality, but one question though, do you really need a body-on-frame SUV?, if not the XUV700 would be the better option.

So, the choice boils down to your preference, the Scorpio N is for those looking for a tough-as-nails SUV to take on difficult terrain, but for those looking for a sophisticated all-rounder, the XUV700 fits the bill. The same can be said for the Seltos at a lower price point too.