[imp!]

Hi Guys,

We live in a large family. Next year, there will be Nine of us, 7 adults and 1 young child and an infant at home. While we have several cars, we have been replacing an ageing fleet. Our current long term cars are a Passat 2.0TDI and a Superb 2.0 TSI. Through a strange concatenation of circumstances we find ourselves once more in the market for a car.

This is going to be a car that my Brother and/or I will be driving on a daily basis to work. As a family, we have decided that we want a change from VAG vehicles, and, considering everything that is available sub 30 Lakhs, the only cars that interest me are the Thar and Scorpio.

The Thar is very much a heart over head decision. I am not sure what variant I would get but it would definitely be an automatic. The heart wants the soft top diesel with a re-map. The brain may settle for a petrol hard top for a bit of practicality.

The Scorpio on the other hand, gives us the option to be able to travel with just two cars and allows us a the practicality of using around the city with 5 people in comfort. This would be the Z8L 4x4 At. Here, we would buy the Diesel as there is no 4x4 Petrol option.

When we travel, we would need to carry enough luggage for the entire family, a large camera bag, tripod and sometimes a golf bag. I just don't see this happening with the two Sedans. Heck, I am not sure it can happen with one of the sedans and the Scorpio either.

The Thar definitely pulls at the heartstrings. I can mod it to kingdom come if I wish, and I already have some ideas to this end. I can get an open top off-road billy goat and explore the trails around Bangalore. This would be great for my photography. To be honest though, we have a Pajero Sport that I haven't used on the trails around the city. The clutch is simply too hard for me to enjoy the car, it is one of the cars that we will eventually sell. Hence, an automatic that is actually capable off-road could be a blessing. In this sense, the Scorpio is no slouch either. I saw the Autocar off road video and it did look impressive.

Truth be told outside of the 6 cylinder BMWs and other exotics, the Thar is the first car I have truly enjoyed since my Laura TSI. Yes, it is not very comfortable and quite impractical, but, it does something for me that no car I can consider has done in a long time indeed. I hope I have been lucid enough for you to see why I am confused and can weigh in with some thoughts. Let us not worry about the waiting period in making this decision. We generally keep our cars for 10 years and there is no point worrying about a few months.

Thanks!
imp

[swunkjyn]

Hello @imp!

In my Family, we are 6 members in total. Mom, Dad, Sister, Wife, Daughter and Me but I am living in Bangalore right now and folks are in Himachal. They have their own car, Alto K10 (2022) and also a Maruti 800.

When my Wife and me decided to buy Thar (Petrol Manual), my Parents ruled in the favor because they knew that after 19 months we are going back to Bangalore so it will be mostly three of us. So for a Nuclear Family of 3 or 4 with 2 Adults Thar is a great vehicle but you will have to be light with the luggage, because the space is less.

Then the other thing is that it has 2 Door at the front so anyone who wants to get into the rear seats will have to go through the front door only, similar to how it was in Gypsy (back in those days).

Petrol Engine is super silent and some instances you will be tricked to think that it is not running. Power is always available for this engine, it will easily do 110 to 120 with no efforts.

Coming to the comfort part, yes, there is side movement which can be controlled using the EVO Suspension that Shankar Bhai upgraded to (and he appreciates the suspension a lot) and also our GTO got it (this is before even getting the Thar delivered and the trust he has on the user experience shared by the owners).

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...eview-247.html (Mahindra Thar : Official Review)
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/mahind...after-purchase

Suspension upgrade which is rated best on Team-BHP is the EVO.
There are two more contenders - ARC suspension (Version 2.0) and Iron Man (Performance is not known yet).

My Wife and Me have driven it over 16000 kms since ownership (3rd Feb 2022). I have done the following trips in it.

Solo - Nahan to Bangalore (44 or 46 hours)
Family trips -

Bangalore to Trimula
Bangalore to Pondicherry
Bangalore to Mysore (Many a times)
Chandigarh to Manali (Non-stop and then return trip)

The drive is amazing and brings a smile always, to this date, I have been stopped many a time by people of all ages, asking me about Thar. They ask how it drives, mileage and waiting period. 50% of the time, they ask me why I did not but the Open Jeep. If your heart has fallen for it, go for it. You will not regret it.

[imp!]

Thanks swunkjyn, please find my comments below

Originally Posted by swunkjyn

Hello @imp!


for a Nuclear Family of 3 or 4 with 2 Adults Thar is a great vehicle but you will have to be light with the luggage, because the space is less.

Then the other thing is that it has 2 Door at the front so anyone who wants to get into the rear seats will have to go through the front door only, similar to how it was in Gypsy (back in those days).

The Thar would pretty much be relegated to 2 seater duty for most of its life. The access, lack of boot space make any other possibility unlikely. It will also only do long distance duty if all of us are going somewhere, otherwise who ever is travelling will likely take the Superb.

Originally Posted by swunkjyn

Petrol Engine is super silent and some instances you will be tricked to think that it is not running. Power is always available for this engine, I have done 150 Kmph in this with 4 Adults on Highways (I usually do not drive that fast). It will easily do 110 to 120 with no efforts.

How is the Petrol Off Road? I am doing some research into the Petrol 4x4 At for off roading. I have driven it a a decent amount at speeds and I agree, it is surprisingly accomplished even in stock avatar.

Originally Posted by swunkjyn

Hello @imp!

Coming to the comfort part, yes, there is side movement which can be controlled using the EVO Suspension that Shankar Bhai upgraded to (and he appreciates the suspension a lot) and also our GTO got it (this is before even getting the Thar delivered and the trust he has on the user experience shared by the owners).

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...eview-247.html (Mahindra Thar : Official Review)
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/mahind...after-purchase

This is one of the first mods I was contemplating. Good to hear that it is approved my TBHP. I need to do a deep dive into these links. Thanks for sharing them. I will definitely be going through the, carefully.

Originally Posted by swunkjyn

My Wife and Me have driven it over 16000 kms since ownership (3rd Feb 2022). I have done the following trips in it.

Solo - Nahan to Bangalore (44 or 46 hours)
Family trips -

Bangalore to Trimula
Bangalore to Pondicherry
Bangalore to Mysore (Many a times)
Chandigarh to Manali (Non-stop and then return trip)

The drive is amazing and brings a smile always, to this date, I have been stopped many a time by people of all ages, asking me about Thar. They ask how it drives, mileage and waiting period. 50% of the time, they ask me why I did not but the Open Jeep. If your heart has fallen for it, go for it. You will not regret it.

I am glad you are enjoying the car so much. I am almost certain if I buy one it would be the soft top. What is your take on it? I read a thread a while back on TBHP where most members preferred the security and comfort of the Hard Top, but I can't help but wonder. If I am getting an impractical car, might as well just go all out.

The ideal decision would be the Diesel 4x4 Soft Top with a remap, but, given the situation with Diesel Ban across the country, maybe the Petrol is a safe bet.

[PrideRed]

For the use case mentioned Scorpio is a better bet. Thar can do things which is not possible with Scorpio but then its a recreational vehicle.

[imp!]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

For the use case mentioned Scorpio is a better bet. Thar can do things which is not possible with Scorpio but then its a recreational vehicle.

I test drove both today. The family is test driving them this evening. To be honest, the Scorpio is a much more practical car, but I experienced a tremendous amount of body roll. The space management too is not the greatest. I don't think the entire family and luggage can travel for more than an overnighter or weekender in a Scorpio and Superb. In that particular case, we always have our Pajero Sport or can use both the Superb and Passat.

The Scorpio is impressive, but I am convinced that the Thar is a better fit for my Brother and I. Let's see what the family says today.

[Newtown]

While you would like to move away from the VAG vehicles, if I were you, I would strongly consider a well-kept used Tiguan or a Kodiak. You will have all kinds of luggage space that you need, can be daily driven comfortably, has more snob value and you are used to VAG cars anyway. There are some really good examples out there.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by imp!

I test drove both today. The family is test driving them this evening. To be honest, the Scorpio is a much more practical car, but I experienced a tremendous amount of body roll. The space management too is not the greatest. I don't think the entire family and luggage can travel for more than an overnighter or weekender in a Scorpio and Superb. In that particular case, we always have our Pajero Sport or can use both the Superb and Passat.

The Scorpio is impressive, but I am convinced that the Thar is a better fit for my Brother and I. Let's see what the family says today.

Ok, I missed you had Pajero already. In that case Thar can be good choice. Also Thar is available quickly while Scorpio has long waiting period.

[lamborghini]

I'd wait a bit for the Thar 5 door, and see how it would rate as a daily drive : a comfortable 5 seater + the Pajero / VW / Skoda should be good for your requirements & if the Thar 5 door is close to as much fun as the 3 door - it could be a good option that balances the heart and the head.

[swunkjyn]

Originally Posted by imp!

How is the Petrol Off Road? I am doing some research into the Petrol 4x4 At for off roading. I have driven it a a decent amount at speeds and I agree, it is surprisingly accomplished even in stock avatar.

I am glad you are enjoying the car so much. I am almost certain if I buy one it would be the soft top. What is your take on it? I read a thread a while back on TBHP where most members preferred the security and comfort of the Hard Top, but I can't help but wonder. If I am getting an impractical car, might as well just go all out.

The ideal decision would be the Diesel 4x4 Soft Top with a remap, but, given the situation with Diesel Ban across the country, maybe the Petrol is a safe bet.

Petrol is good in Offroading, while in Manali, driving on snow and uphill roads with black-ice, Thar did not break a sweat. I would say that having a Petrol vehicle in cold areas is a boon.

We were staying in Bhurwa (Manali). So in Jan and Feb, the temperature can dip below -10 and so it was. Outside it was -12 degress when we made our move to Chandigarh. Single crank and it started which the Diesel cars were struggling as Diesel starts to thicken when the temperature drops to minus 6 degreee and lower.

Softtop, we did not buy for three reasons. Noise inside the cabin at high speed, there is no safety and then you will always have to find a spot to park it safe. Having a hardtop saved all the headache for us. Then we are also planning to have a roofrack installed on top so soft-top was never an option for us but yeah, it looks amazing. For us it was more of functionality then the form.

Once you get Thar, you will become center of the universe for attraction (be ready for it). You will love and enjoy every bit of it. That Power + Short Wheelbase can do wonder in offroading. Let me search for the pictures that I had clicked and will share it here.

[shankar.balan]

The requirements you have outlined point more towards the Scorpio N than the present Thar 3 door.

The Scorpio N and the present generation Thar both have very poor interior space and storage designs for such huge and imposing and bulky vehicles.

Don’t get me wrong. The 3 door Thar is a lovely vehicle. I am personally enjoying every moment of its ownership. I am as happy today as I was when I got it in Feb 2021. I ALWAYS turn back to look at it, after parking it. I have done some solid and functional upgrades to it which I have written in detail about on multiple threads. It has become even more practical for me, as a result. And therefore it suits my kind of use-case and need-state perfectly well.

With regard to the soft top vs hard top debate - I also love the soft top, especially the convertible top in the Thar. It looks superbly heart-achingly lovely in Red.

Always evokes images of happy people having fun in the sun on the beach and in the winding hill roads and all that sort of thing. That’s the Teenager who lies hidden in me, speaking.

But it is not at all the practical option, if one wants to leave things lying in the vehicle. For example I would never want someone to wolf my tool bag or golf kit or even phone or work bag or shopping, simply by slitting the soft top.

Also, less troublesome but still slightly inconvenient, there is always the chance of getting caught in the rain with the top down. Or going under some under-construction-flyover and meeting the dirty water run-off literally head-on.

In Indian cities there is pollution, the weather is harsh, there are extremely malodorous areas, there are horrible fumes, there are many-a-time, obstreperous, persistent beggars and transgenders who accost you at traffic lights; Indeed there are even potential thieves at traffic lights and those persistent hawkers too.

Against all of these, an unobtrusive, less hurtful defence, is to simply roll up the windows in the hardtop and put on the AC.

Perhaps you should wait a little and see what the Thar 5 door looks like and feels like. It just may be right up your alley because it is absolutely going to be more versatile, practical and easy to live with.

I am also hoping that the Wiser folks at M&M see all the feedback and functional modifications that people are making to the 3 door Thar and in the matter of the 5 door, give us a properly designed product right from the factory.

For your reference, here is a YouTube video ref the Jeep Wrangler 3 door vs the 5 door. The same principles and logic are applicable here in this debate ref the Thar, considering, as I said at the beginning, your description of your needs.

(Basis all of the above, the practical, pragmatic choice is clear. Now it all depends whether you want to follow your Head or your Heart.)

(I am not the right one to advise, I always follow my Heart. It just makes me happy and one cannot put a price on happiness! That’s why I have voted Thar Petrol AT)

https://youtu.be/7vBwANzl-HE

[anand.shankar82]

My 2 cents is ... I would suggest the Scorpio as I have owned one in the past. It can carry people in comfort and unlike the 2-door Thar the access to rear seats is not an issue.

Plus for luggage you can plonk a roof-top carrier or even just tie your bags to the roof rails with a Yoga mat as protection underneath (I used to do this many times)

Thar sure looks good but the Scorpio-N is no slouch in the looks department either

[ranjitnair77]

Originally Posted by imp!

The Thar is very much a heart over head decision. I am not sure what variant I would get but it would definitely be an automatic. The heart wants the soft top diesel with a re-map. The brain may settle for a petrol hard top for a bit of practicality.

The Scorpio on the other hand, gives us the option to be able to travel with just two cars and allows us a the practicality of using around the city with 5 people in comfort. This would be the Z8L 4x4 At. Here, we would buy the Diesel as there is no 4x4 Petrol option.

I absolutely adore the Thar and so does my wife. We have a sedan and the need arose for for a second car for occasional use, usually in the city with a few outstation drives thrown in. So we headed over for a test drive, thinking that we would put our money down for a hard top, aquamarine petrol automatic Thar at the end of it.

We were okay to work around all the shortcomings (the boot, two doors, rear seat ergonomics) but the suspension and body roll just killed it for us. There is this constant pitching and bobbing even if the roads are smooth. Things get worse on concrete surfaces. I took a turn at a slightly higher than normal speed and I had a heart-in-my mouth moment. We did a small trail which the Thar absolutely demolished, but it continued to be quite bouncy while doing so. My wife joked that we would need pop an Ondem pill before every drive. Sure, the AVO suspension makes things considerably better but at the end of the day the Thar remains an off-roader at heart. It will always ride bouncy.

Admittedly the fault is all mine here. I'm used to sedans and monocoque SUVs. Body-on-frame vehicles will not ride like that so I should have tempered my expectations. However the ride quality and body roll was far worse than what I imagined it to be. For my kind of use, I couldn't tradeoff ride comfort for 95% of the time for unbeatable performance when I occasionally go off-road. Maybe I'm just not a Jeeper.

I'm thinking that the Scorpio will be kind of bouncy too but it is probably the better option. Is there any reason why you are not considering the XUV 700 AWD? It drives beautifully and should do reasonably well on the occasional trail. It's footprint is not vastly different, compared to the other two.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by ranjitnair77

I absolutely adore the Thar and so does my wife.

The Thar after all is a Jeepy thing. A timeless design and an iconic shape. And the AVO suspension with the right setting makes a Night vs Day difference in ride comfort. It good to have a small constant load in the back; tools, accoutrements and all. My Thar is marginally heavier than the OEM 1735kgs, because of the steel side steps and the aluminium underbody protection, the mild steel rear differential guard and exhaust end-can guard etc. Say all this may add around 70 to 80 kgs more. With some functional modifications done, the Thar becomes much more practical. But at the end of the day the Thar will absolutely always be a Heart over Head thing.

[UD17]

Voted for Thar Petrol.

Looking at your purpose and conundrum of heart, i would say Thar would a better choice. Its very easy to navigate through the streets due to compact size and would certainly be more apt choice for your office daily drive. Added benefit is low waiting period on Thar.

The 4X4 thirst would more satiated by Thar, again due to ease of navigation (small size)+proven credentials. An enthusiasts within you (as i see with your garage) would be more happy with modification friendly nature of Thar. Thar petrol- because of all disadvantage of diesel (DEF, Life span, maintenance cost etc.)+ I believe you would not drive Thar as much as say the other diesel monsters in your garage.

All the best.

[84.monsoon]

I would vote for the ScorpioN given your use case. The Thar is absolutely abysmal in terms of luggage capacity even with the rear seats down. It is a sub-4m vehicle after all, with avery long bonnet. But I agree driving around in the Thar gives you a special feeling, it is very maneuverable, yet feels like driving a mature full size SUV in terms of your driving position and outside view.

I am surprised you noticed so much body roll in the ScorpioN. It has got a lot of technology over and above the Thar to improve ride and handling. If you are coming from the VAG sedans you will definitely experience a lot more body roll of course. I would compare the Thar and ScorpioN back to back on the same route to see if there is indeed excessive body roll on the ScorpioN as compared to the Thar.