[4x4addict]

Bolero is a decent vehicle, but if you an afford a Safari or Scorpio, I don't see a reason why you should buy a Bolero. The mechanicals are pretty dated.

I would recommend a Bolero only for someone who cant or don't feel the need to spend 10 Lakhs on an SUV>

[anupmathur]

Keeping all your requirements in mind, I think the only 2 vehicles are left in the fray are the Bolero and the Scorpio.
Back seat comfort is ALMOST the same in both at sane speeds, so your mother will not be overly disturbed by that.
In some ways the Bolero is possibly better suited for your needs. Only you can decide the matter by judging it when you are in India.
While the Safari might offer the best rear seat comfort, that is about where it stops meeting your other requirements.
If function must prevail over form, you'd currently not look at a Safari.

[shankar.balan]

yes bliss
4x4 me old pal is right as is anup - dont even think about it - IMHO go for the Scorp. It will give you everything you need.
why bother with Bolero and waiting for the Crde etc when you can pickup the Scorp VLS which has the new gen engine and which is at the very beginning of its product life cycle and still is within your budget?

My parents are also getting on in years and as of last week - a bit of rough roading and highway cruising in my regular 2.6 crde scorp, when belted up properly my dad didnt feel uncomfortable at all.

for purposes of comparison my Dad is 6 feet tall and he said he has ample leg room and comfortable seating position in the back of the Scorp. My mum is very comfortable in the front seat. However, pickup the 7 seater version (with 2 jump seats at the rearmost) because this back seat has a little more leg room than the 8 seater version which has one more front facing row of seats in the rearmost area which also IMHO seriously cramps your luggage space when compared with the 7 seater, where you can dump a lot of stuff in the back rearmost area, with the passengers in the middle row back seat ( personal experience, 4 bags/ luggage plus 3 full sized golf bags plus the assorted car tool bag etc plus 2 of my old steel wheels for ballast purposes).

Originally Posted by bliss_now

Shankar, I have read your reviews on Bolero and Scorpio. THANK YOU. Scorpio is certainly in my budget (10L range).

IMHO, Bolero’s Rear-Parabolic leaf spring suspension is very relevant for handling the terrain it is built for. And if Bolero gets Scorpio’s Crde engine, that would be a great bargain but for the comfort factor (mom has chronic back-ache situation).

Also after reading various reviews I hear a resounding ‘yes’ for Mahindra’s reliability and the point is absolutely taken.
However, there is a nagging concern. Back seat comfort: Scorpio VS Safari. From various posts it seems that Safari has no contention with respect to comfort. But really how cramped is Scorpio’s back seat? I have a limitation as virtual pictures are the only source for my judgment. Really appreciate some feedback on this. Please note we have no extra size situation in our family.

[bliss_now]

Thank you.

Why is Bolero preferred over Scorpio? (when budget is not a constraint)
Suspension?
Maintainability in remote places?
Ruggedness?

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Keeping all your requirements in mind, I think the only 2 vehicles are left in the fray are the Bolero and the Scorpio.
Back seat comfort is ALMOST the same in both at sane speeds, so your mother will not be overly disturbed by that.
In some ways the Bolero is possibly better suited for your needs. Only you can decide the matter by judging it when you are in India.
While the Safari might offer the best rear seat comfort, that is about where it stops meeting your other requirements.
If function must prevail over form, you'd currently not look at a Safari.

[bliss_now]

Shankar, Thanks for the detailed post. All points noted especially the one about 7-seater.

In my original post I had mentioned that I’ll head back sometime in year 2009. Hopefully around June or maybe earlier – I wake up everyday and the first thing that comes to my mind is the pristine nature that surrounds the farm.

Can I get some feedback on the following models? I have put down my comments.

Scorpio LX with 2.6 Crde
Pros: Makes sense economically to get the basic model and upgrade where required. Personally I may not require any upgrade.
Cons: 2.6 Crde Vs 2.2 mHawk. Clear generation gap. Body roll issues.

Scorpio VLS with 2.2 mHawk
Pros: New Generation engine. Better FE. Plus all that tweaking performed by Lotus engineers. (Really how much of this Lotus thing is marketing?)
Cons: Forced to buy bells and whistles as part of the package.

Scorpio 2.2 mHawk, full Hybrid
Any news about this? Expected by mid 2009? I would be very interested.

Bolero SLX with Crde (speculated)
Pros: Cheaper than Scorpio.
Cons: 2.6 Crde Vs 2.2 mHawk. Clear generation gap.

Any possibility of Scorpio LX with 2.2 mHawk and ABS only?

Cheers.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

yes bliss
4x4 me old pal is right as is anup - dont even think about it - IMHO go for the Scorp. It will give you everything you need.
why bother with Bolero and waiting for the Crde etc when you can pickup the Scorp VLS which has the new gen engine and which is at the very beginning of its product life cycle and still is within your budget?

My parents are also getting on in years and as of last week - a bit of rough roading and highway cruising in my regular 2.6 crde scorp, when belted up properly my dad didnt feel uncomfortable at all.

for purposes of comparison my Dad is 6 feet tall and he said he has ample leg room and comfortable seating position in the back of the Scorp. My mum is very comfortable in the front seat. However, pickup the 7 seater version (with 2 jump seats at the rearmost) because this back seat has a little more leg room than the 8 seater version which has one more front facing row of seats in the rearmost area which also IMHO seriously cramps your luggage space when compared with the 7 seater, where you can dump a lot of stuff in the back rearmost area, with the passengers in the middle row back seat ( personal experience, 4 bags/ luggage plus 3 full sized golf bags plus the assorted car tool bag etc plus 2 of my old steel wheels for ballast purposes).

[anupmathur]

Bliss, by June 2009, there will be quite a few more options available.
India has seen fairly fast activity in the last few years on the automotive front!

[desigNation]

bliss_now-if back seat is a concern never go for any mahindra vehicle-if reliability is a concern tata vehicles should be avoided. innova diesel would be the best,mahindra reliability is amazing,but comfort level [especially back seat is very bad] and tata vehicles comfort level is really good[especially safari]but reliability is not so great.i would suggest toyota innova which is an amazing vehicle which gives you both .

[anupmathur]

desigNation, he's already covered that in an earlier post!

Originally Posted by bliss_now

Called up the folks at the farm and found that Innova cannot handle the last 5km stretch (10 kms both ways). Vehicle currently used by them is Bolero Camper. Very sad that Innova is eliminated.

If not for this, what you say is quite valid.

[DirtyDan]

Innova is the unequaled quality SUV in India for the price. Good motor, good A/C, good comfort. I, too, think it is an eyesore but there is no doubting its quality. For less money you might have a look at the new Sumo Grand at Tata while you are checking out the Safari. Sumo Grand is less money and has the same basic Safari 2.2L turbo diesel. As GTO mentioned, four wheel drive is nice to have. It allows you to go places you might not otherwise attempt. It gives you security, it's fun. But, if you go with four wheel drive then Mahindra Scorpio and Tata Safari are your only 2 lower priced options.

[GTO - Touring]

Bliss now, Go for the Scorpio. Ask your mother to occupy the front passenger seat whenever you are out with the family. Problem solved!

[Steeroid]

I think Dirty Dan's suggestion of a Sumo Grande is worthy of consideration. Your requirements seemed to indicate the need for ground clearance, not 4x4. The Grande is quite spacious, has a usable 3rd row and an engine that is on par with the other cars being considered.

Of course you could choose to buy a Safari and go beyond mere utility. It is as reliable as every other vehicle (not including the Innova) under consideration and has more power, space and comfort. Why compromise?

[vaspro]

By 2009, Tata might release Xenon (just speculation) which might suit your requirements well (if you dont mind a pickup truck).


Here is a Article about xenon. Here is a thread on Xenon http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-pictures.html

IMHO, Xenon should suit your requirements very well like other vehicle's discussed here. Just my two cents.

Thanks
Vaspro

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by vaspro

IMHO, Xenon should suit your requirements very well like other vehicle's discussed here. Just my two cents.

Vaspro, earlier in the thread he HAS clarified his order of priorities. Tata vehicles have not yet managed to establish that reputation for being troublefree. And Tata Service Centres have not carved out an enviable position for themselves either. It takes TIME to earn all that. Perhaps, if they HAVE changed lately, the effects will filter down and due credit will be given by the market, when due.
Regrettably, in his case, the Innova does not fit the bill.
I'm just wondering if an Innova with a 20mm body lift kit might not be perfect for him.

[GTO - Touring]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

I think Dirty Dan's suggestion of a Sumo Grande is worthy of consideration. Your requirements seemed to indicate the need for ground clearance, not 4x4.

The Grande actually doesn't do that well here. The skid plate and intercooler are placed pretty low, so much that you wouldn't really want to take it over roads too rough. Also, the soft suspension makes it sit lower when laden.

Of course you could choose to buy a Safari and go beyond mere utility. It is as reliable as every other vehicle (not including the Innova) under consideration and has more power, space and comfort. Why compromise?

A Safari is not going to be the best to maintain in areas of scarce service support. In terms of reliability, I'd give the Scorpio higher marks than the Safari, but if we are looking at sheer reliability....it is the Innova followed by the Bolero.

[vaspro]

@Anupmathur: if you read his post carefully, he does also mention that currently a Bolero camper is doing duty in his farm. I have seen Tata 207 doing duty on the routes in AP where earlier only Jeeps used to ply. Now assuming that Xenon is going to be the next generation vehicle with all the comforts of a car, 4WD and comes with same servicablity. Hence IMO xenon fits the requirements.

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Tata vehicles have not yet managed to establish that reputation for being troublefree. And Tata Service Centres have not carved out an enviable position for themselves either. It takes TIME to earn all that. Perhaps, if they HAVE changed lately, the effects will filter down and due credit will be given by the market, when due.

Well, so are Mahindra's my friend. A Scorpio mHawk is also a new variant with a new engine, however it was suggested here. Reliability is a relative a term, any machine is bound to break down. When you are in rural areas what matters most is servicability. Able to repair the vehicle and put it back on road. In this department, Tata is noway inferior to Mahindra. Many a rural mechanic can repair an Amby, a jeep and a Tata UV. From that perspective Tatas are not that bad, as it is made to sound in your comment.

Thanks
Vaspro

P.S.: Xenon is already being sold in many other countries (South Africa, Italy, Argentina etc) and hence its not a lab rat from Tatas.