PLanning to buy an SUV - Grand Vitara or Outlander (or Endeavour 4x4)?

Ym-enjn · 17th July 2008, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Add me to the list that likes the GV's looks. See this babe - so hot in black. This is the Jap one, but I guess more-or-less same as the Indian version.

Japanese Model - X Factor - Great Looks = Indian Model

sudev · 18th July 2008, 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

2.4L VVT, 166 BHP, 225Nm

.

2.4 will not be 166bhp here like 2.0l is not 138bhp. Reason Mauti detunes the ECU/ECM for local fuel quality and prevent engine knocking. Indian GV 2.0L is 119bhp.

madan80 · 18th July 2008, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudev

....Although when off roading you would rather have ABS off. (Can be done by removing fuse and ignoring warining light).

didnt understand asto why would you not want the ABS during offroading? does it hinder the performance in any way?

anandpadhye · 18th July 2008, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudev

2.4 will not be 166bhp here like 2.0l is not 138bhp. Reason Mauti detunes the ECU/ECM for local fuel quality and prevent engine knocking. Indian GV 2.0L is 119bhp.

Sure.
Still it will be better than the 2.0L we have here.
And they can not disable VVT for India, can they

?

sudev · 18th July 2008, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by madan80

didnt understand asto why would you not want the ABS during offroading? does it hinder the performance in any way?

Try it and you will know. Since ABS releases brakes as soon as it senses a lock situation there is very low braking on loose gravel / sandy surfaces. Here having your tire locked and digging in like an anchor acts better. Again only on loose and/or soft surface surface.

nilanjanray · 18th July 2008, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudev

2.4 will not be 166bhp here like 2.0l is not 138bhp. Reason Mauti detunes the ECU/ECM for local fuel quality and prevent engine knocking. Indian GV 2.0L is 119bhp.

Is there any reliable option for 're-tuning', or getting the original setting back in India? I did read that you were planning to do something similar - but don't you think that the fuel quality can have an adverse impact?

Samurai · 18th July 2008, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by madan80

didnt understand asto why would you not want the ABS during offroading? does it hinder the performance in any way?

In slippery conditions, the wheel has no traction, it will easily stop turning when you apply brake although the car keeps sliding forward. This can happen in even at 5kmph if the road is very slippery due to slush or snow or ice. The ABS will sense this as lock and activate the pumping of brakes. At low speeds it can irritate/confuse the hell out of you.

I have experienced this in my old Acura 3.2TL while driving on freshly snowed roads.

You just have to keep off brakes while driving in such situations.

anandpadhye · 18th July 2008, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudev

Try it and you will know. Since ABS releases brakes as soon as it senses a lock situation there is very low braking on loose gravel / sandy surfaces. Here having your tire locked and digging in like an anchor acts better. Again only on loose and/or soft surface surface.

How about the handbrake?
Does ABS control that too?

sudev · 18th July 2008, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

How about the handbrake?
Does ABS control that too?

No. but try using handbrake without vehicle being in straight line.

Quote:

Is there any reliable option for 're-tuning', or getting the original setting back in India? I did read that you were planning to do something similar - but don't you think that the fuel quality can have an adverse impact?

Project in waiting.

Chat · 19th July 2008, 02:24

I am a big Mitsubishi cars fan and wouldn't mince words in saying that Vitara is no comparison to Outlander, although we are yet to see Outlander here. Firstly, one shouldn't think of buying any Maruti car that is priced more than 5 lacs. Their niche is tinbox cars and they have proven it time and again as almost all of their cars above this price line flopped including Vitara that has been around for almost 4 years now.

Maruti may have much great network but that does not make them great A.S.S provider. Imagine buying 15 lac car from them and jostling for space in their overcrowded and dingy service centers. Shoddy work and not delivering on time is as common to a Maruti service center as for any other company in India. Cheap cars will have cheaper spare parts value and we know it well enough.

And I say all of this after having driven Zen for 5 years, took services from 6 different dealers in two different cities, Delhi & Bangalore. I still wonder where is that wow factor with Maruti? If you spend 15+ you want some snob value to come along, rest assured you do not get that with a Maruti product in India. If HM ( not Mitsubishi ) could be accused of producing Ambys still, Maruti's credentials are also not that great; proof in the pudding their 800 which has been around for 25 years now and age clearly showing on Alto and Wagon R.

As for Mitsubishi, they have gone wrong in brand equity and marketing themselves in India, giving away ground to other companies, they still are known for producing legendary SUVs worldwide. They are blue blooded SUV makers and Pajeros, Monteros and Outlanders are more than enough to back the statement. I bought Cedia last year and I get brilliant service from them. I am one amongst those exclusive (not few) customers to them and not in the crowd of million customers. Experience of owning and driving Cedia is far greater than I would have imagined and definitely something that I wouldn't have got from Maruti.

Wait until mid Sep, test drive Outlander and take your call. It should be around 16 range and not 21; Pajeros are at 19 something and Outlander wouldn't be placed above it. If possible, try to take a test drive of Montero and you'll be convinced why I wrote a story here to buy a Mitsubishi SUV, it is in their DNA.

sudev · 19th July 2008, 07:13

AFAIK OP wanted sub 12lac and he wanted opinion on GV which is at 14lac. Outlander is not likely to be priced below old generation Pajero -17lac. Unless they come with a 2wd version like Captiva did to keep pricing low. New gen Pajero never sold volumes in India.

One point though if you have a SUV and are planning even little bit off roading a nearby service center is peace of mind. Forget Mitsubishi even Honda (selling more volumes) does not have enough network beyond main cities as I learn't recently. Traveling on Moradabad bye pass (a stretch of divided grade separated highway with intrusion control railings) a dog jumped in front of my dad's Civic killing itself and the radiator. Surprise, no service center nearer than Delhi -150kms. In case of Maruti I have been able to get service at A.S.S. even in Leh. And Nagur for a niggle as reported here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...gine-jerk.html

hondadude · 19th July 2008, 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudev

One point though if you have a SUV and are planning even little bit off roading a nearby service center is peace of mind.

In case of Maruti I have been able to get service at A.S.S. even in Leh. And Nagur for a niggle as reported here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...gine-jerk.html

That would be true for very minor repairs in case of GV. Since it is a CBU and is not selling well, most of the remote dealers probably won't have any GV parts at all.

nilanjanray · 19th July 2008, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudev

AFAIK OP wanted sub 12lac and he wanted opinion on GV which is at 14lac. Outlander is not likely to be priced below old generation Pajero -17lac. Unless they come with a 2wd version like Captiva did to keep pricing low. New gen Pajero never sold volumes in India.

Th Outlander will be priced between 20 - 21 L on the road in Bangalore. Don't know the showroom price - that is yet to be decided, but I got the assumption that Mitsu will work backwards and decide on the ex-showroom price accordingly.

The Pajero will still be more expensive. "Outlander is a softroader - while Pajero is a hardcore SUV" - that's what the dealer was trying to explain to me when I asked him why Pajero is more expensive.

sudev · 19th July 2008, 10:53

Yep..most of dealers do not carry spare but they are delivered by Maruti pretty quickly despite of being a CBU. Not like other brands also doing CBU business. But having a workshop manual is useful in pinpointing the problems / parts numbers.
I, in any case, have been die hard Suzuki fan since 1984 - my first M800 and have been bitten shy further by GM's and Ford's that were purchased in between. Plus experiences of friends. I would recommend Toyota and Mitsubishi as a brand but HM tie up in case of latter is a no go. Enough plugging for GV.

Ym-enjn · 21st July 2008, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

Th Outlander will be priced between 20 - 21 L on the road in Bangalore. Don't know the showroom price - that is yet to be decided, but I got the assumption that Mitsu will work backwards and decide on the ex-showroom price accordingly.

The Pajero will still be more expensive. "Outlander is a softroader - while Pajero is a hardcore SUV" - that's what the dealer was trying to explain to me when I asked him why Pajero is more expensive.

Its gonna be priced around 15.5 Lakhs. I read in past. If it would have been a CBU then too the price would have remained below CRV, like other markets. That is around 18 - 20, but its not CBU.

19th July 2008, 02:24	#70
Chat BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bangalore / Manila Posts: 121 Thanked: 2 Times	I am a big Mitsubishi cars fan and wouldn't mince words in saying that Vitara is no comparison to Outlander, although we are yet to see Outlander here. Firstly, one shouldn't think of buying any Maruti car that is priced more than 5 lacs. Their niche is tinbox cars and they have proven it time and again as almost all of their cars above this price line flopped including Vitara that has been around for almost 4 years now. Maruti may have much great network but that does not make them great A.S.S provider. Imagine buying 15 lac car from them and jostling for space in their overcrowded and dingy service centers. Shoddy work and not delivering on time is as common to a Maruti service center as for any other company in India. Cheap cars will have cheaper spare parts value and we know it well enough. And I say all of this after having driven Zen for 5 years, took services from 6 different dealers in two different cities, Delhi & Bangalore. I still wonder where is that wow factor with Maruti? If you spend 15+ you want some snob value to come along, rest assured you do not get that with a Maruti product in India. If HM ( not Mitsubishi ) could be accused of producing Ambys still, Maruti's credentials are also not that great; proof in the pudding their 800 which has been around for 25 years now and age clearly showing on Alto and Wagon R. As for Mitsubishi, they have gone wrong in brand equity and marketing themselves in India, giving away ground to other companies, they still are known for producing legendary SUVs worldwide. They are blue blooded SUV makers and Pajeros, Monteros and Outlanders are more than enough to back the statement. I bought Cedia last year and I get brilliant service from them. I am one amongst those exclusive (not few) customers to them and not in the crowd of million customers. Experience of owning and driving Cedia is far greater than I would have imagined and definitely something that I wouldn't have got from Maruti. Wait until mid Sep, test drive Outlander and take your call. It should be around 16 range and not 21; Pajeros are at 19 something and Outlander wouldn't be placed above it. If possible, try to take a test drive of Montero and you'll be convinced why I wrote a story here to buy a Mitsubishi SUV, it is in their DNA.
	() Thanks

19th July 2008, 07:13	#71
sudev Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,838 Thanked: 3,179 Times	AFAIK OP wanted sub 12lac and he wanted opinion on GV which is at 14lac. Outlander is not likely to be priced below old generation Pajero -17lac. Unless they come with a 2wd version like Captiva did to keep pricing low. New gen Pajero never sold volumes in India. One point though if you have a SUV and are planning even little bit off roading a nearby service center is peace of mind. Forget Mitsubishi even Honda (selling more volumes) does not have enough network beyond main cities as I learn't recently. Traveling on Moradabad bye pass (a stretch of divided grade separated highway with intrusion control railings) a dog jumped in front of my dad's Civic killing itself and the radiator. Surprise, no service center nearer than Delhi -150kms. In case of Maruti I have been able to get service at A.S.S. even in Leh. And Nagur for a niggle as reported here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...gine-jerk.html Last edited by sudev : 19th July 2008 at 07:32. Reason: spell check
	() Thanks

19th July 2008, 10:53	#74
sudev Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,838 Thanked: 3,179 Times	Yep..most of dealers do not carry spare but they are delivered by Maruti pretty quickly despite of being a CBU. Not like other brands also doing CBU business. But having a workshop manual is useful in pinpointing the problems / parts numbers. I, in any case, have been die hard Suzuki fan since 1984 - my first M800 and have been bitten shy further by GM's and Ford's that were purchased in between. Plus experiences of friends. I would recommend Toyota and Mitsubishi as a brand but HM tie up in case of latter is a no go. Enough plugging for GV.
	() Thanks