[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

... Victa does not come with the DI engine.

For some time now, the Victa DI has been available : it is a Turbo DI engine (guess the same that is available with the 407 Ex Turbo). 70 bhp and 23 Kgm ...not bad at all; the mileage is the major selling point : 14kmpl in city driving conditions.

[H3LIOS]

Originally Posted by Mpower

Why not look at the Grande LX base version with discounts. Things like Power locks/windows can be added later when budget frees up. Bull bar up front should help make it look more macho.

Actually, I can afford the Grande GX now. I've been approved for a vehicle loan upto 10 lakhs
Apart from the looks (which we are still in the "getting-used-to" phase), the front facing rear seats make it impractical for the dogs and the non-existent boot-space is a real problem for us. However, TATA has advertised new 7-seater and 9-seater versions of the Grande in Feb. The 9-seater would be a good fit for us. The salesman didn't have much info on the new versions other than what we saw in the paper-ad (four jump seats in the rear instead of a front facing bench), and he wasn't sure if the discounts end in Feb or will continue into March. So we are waiting for some details to come out on the new 9-seater Grande. If the pricing remains the same and discounts continue, then we may go for it.

Originally Posted by Mpower

How much is the Victa GX? I have to correct my previous statement. The Victa IDI has 2 engines, the original 68 bhp non-turbo engine and the 90 bhp TCIC which is available only in GX version. I had thought that the non-turbo was dead but I guess it lives on in non-metro areas.

The Victa GX TCIC is Rs 6.6L ex-showroom, and no discounts on it. The Sumo Grande LX is Rs 6.9L ex-showroom and has a 20K discount making it Rs 6.7L - making the Victa GX TCIC quite expensive. The Victa GX DI on the other hand is Rs 6.1L and has 20K discounts making it 70K cheaper than the GX TCIC. And TATA has have so many Victa variants it is confusing, there are TWO 6-seater versions, NINE 7-seater versions, FOUR 9-seater versions and SEVEN 10-seater versions and one Ambulance version .... but still no 4WD version.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

For some time now, the Victa DI has been available : it is a Turbo DI engine (guess the same that is available with the 407 Ex Turbo). 70 bhp and 23 Kgm ...not bad at all; the mileage is the major selling point : 14kmpl in city driving conditions.

Interesting. Since the Spacio had the Non Turbo 407 engine. This one is much better and makes much more torque than the spacio and Victa IDI so I think the DI is probably a better bet as the engine will go on for ever. I think they used to offer a 3 lakh km warranty on the 407 engine.

[H3LIOS]

Originally Posted by 007 Bond

But i would like you to consider Gama as the model has changed I have already uplaoded latest specs according to which they have a 8 seater model of Gama also they have reduced weight which will result in better power to weight ratio for a 60HP engine.

If you are not getting a proper feedback do PM me i will forward u mail id of top force officials.

Gama was my first choice, but with the 75hp engine that is no longer offered. With the 60hp it seems overpriced now. I can get the Bolero Plus for the same money or the Grande LX for about 90K more, and the security that I will get service and spares in any corner of this country.

My local Force dealer has been quite helpful, but even they couldn't get correct information on the vehicle. As I sat in-front of the Force Dealer and watched him call various people at Force to confirm about the engine specs, I realized how poorly this company is managing its product portfolio. No one seemed to know anything for sure. We finally reached Mr. Amar Deep, Production Manager at Force, who gave us final info on the current Gama specs.

I spoke to Mr. Amar Deep twice. Once to ask about the GAMA engine specs and another time to ask if I could get diff-locks on the Gama 4WD (the answer is no). The two people at Force I talked to (Mr. Hegde, Manager South India, and Mr. Amar Deep) both seemed dis-interested in the Gama and tried to sell the Gurkha instead. Apparently it is available readily.

After I found out that the 75hp BS-III engine is not offered, I asked the dealer what the Gama price was with the 60hp BS-II engine. He called me the next day and said that the price remains the same. Which was ridiculous, cause I was expecting at least a 40K drop in the price.

So that is why I gave up on the Gama and started looking at Bolero Plus & Grande 9-seater. If you have contacts at Force who can quote me a fair price on the Gama and deliver it in reasonable time, I would be happy to pursue it as I remain interested in the vehicle.

Cheers
Teja

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by H3LIOS

However, TATA has advertised new 7-seater and 9-seater versions of the Grande in Feb. The 9-seater would be a good fit for us. The salesman didn't have much info on the new versions other than what we saw in the paper-ad (four jump seats in the rear instead of a front facing bench), and he wasn't sure if the discounts end in Feb or will continue into March. So we are waiting for some details to come out on the new 9-seater Grande. If the pricing remains the same and discounts continue, then we may go for it.

Check the Sumo Grande thread. There is some new info about a relaunched version of Grande with the tata 407 DI engine in order to lower the price. what I am afraid is that the 9-seater may be available with the Tata 407-DI engine that you find noisy. (unless its the CRDI version used in the Safari). Sorry this is confusng with so many engines.

Good thing is that they are going to improve the interiors as well.

But one thing is for sure, you will miss the huge discounts that are offered on the 2008 models.

[H3LIOS]

Originally Posted by Mpower

What I am afraid is that the 9-seater may be available with the Tata 407-DI engine that you find noisy. (unless its the CRDI version used in the Safari). Sorry this is confusng with so many engines.

If that is true, that would be a bummer. Will wait & see what TATA comes up with. It'd be nice if they spruce up the interiors, and it'd be great if they add some side cladding and put the spare wheel on the rear-door.

Speaking of noisy engines, I had the Bolero test drive yesterday and its engine can be heard from across the street when it is started up. I didn't quite realize it when the driver started it with me inside, I guess the cabin is fairly well-insulated. But when I got off to switch seats I noticed how much noise it was making on the outside. So I got the driver to turn it off and turn back on with me standing in-front of the vehicle, and man, it makes quite a racket starting up but soon settles into a lesser clatter. I guess this is a trait of all DI engines. Another item to list under "diesel character".

Originally Posted by Mpower

But one thing is for sure, you will miss the huge discounts that are offered on the 2008 models.

That reminds me to call the showroom and find out the status on the discounts. It would be nice if they continue them till the end of March.

Cheers.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by H3LIOS

If that is true, that would be a bummer. Will wait & see what TATA comes up with. It'd be nice if they spruce up the interiors, and it'd be great if they add some side cladding and put the spare wheel on the rear-door.

That reminds me to call the showroom and find out the status on the discounts. It would be nice if they continue them till the end of March.

Cheers.

DI is not necessarily the problem, but DI without common rail is noisy. The 2.2 is also a DI but its common rail.

There is a version of the 3.0 DI that was used briefly in the Safari and it had common rail. If they decide to use that engine, then you can go for it.

Discounts are usually used to clear old stock.

[H3LIOS]

Originally Posted by Mpower

Discounts are usually used to clear old stock.

Just confirmed - discounts extended till March 20th.
Discount on 2008 model increased from 66K to 75K.
Discount on 2009 model is 25K plus some freebies.

[rhandle]

Gama is available with 75 engine. I confirmed it with Gurgaon delaer. In fact even Cruiser comes with that engine and I drove one. Though it did not had PS, but it handled very well. I never felt I was driving that "Long" vehicle, mind you it's 13+D.

[H3LIOS]

Originally Posted by rhandle

Gama is available with 75 engine. I confirmed it with Gurgaon delaer. In fact even Cruiser comes with that engine and I drove one. Though it did not had PS, but it handled very well. I never felt I was driving that "Long" vehicle, mind you it's 13+D.

I wouldn't trust anything the Force dealers say, they don't seem to know anything about these vehicles. Gama is available with a BS-III engine, but that is not the 75HP engine from Gurkha, but the same 60HP BS-II engine with different EGR and other tubing to meet the BS-III emission norms.

I got this confirmed directly through multiple sources at Force - the dealer, Mr. Hegde (Manager - South India), Mr. Amar Deep (Production Manager) and Mr. Malind Kapoor (VP - Marketing). I am very certain that the 75HP engine is no longer available on the GAMA.

The Cruiser is the same as Toofan. I have driven the Toofan and my test drive report is available here on TeamBHP.

Cheers

[amtak]

Hi H3lios, what vehicle did you purchase EOD?

[H3LIOS]

Originally Posted by amtak

Hi H3lios, what vehicle did you purchase EOD?

Ok, I'll tell you, but first promise not to laugh.

I got myself a 1983 MM-540DP 4WD and decided to postpone the purchase of a proper people mover for a later day.

The Jeep is in OK shape, but the previous owner had removed the 4WD system for fuel economy and I am currently planning to have a 4WD re-installed in the vehicle.

[honeybee]

Checked with a local Force dealer, who said they have a cruiser available to show right away, no Gama or any other model. Dropped by and took a test ride. I took the middle seat while the driver and two others took the front. The NVH levels were quite low, though it being a diesel the engine noise does filter through. Was unable to roll up the windows and check the sound insulation because there was no AC and it was at 2 in the afternoon.

While discussing the Gama model and in general the Trax lineup with the dealer's guy, he was candid to admit they are taken only by tour operators and private ownership is rare, at least in the Mumbai and suburban region. They haven't sold a single Gama for the last five years.

According to him the vehicle is trouble-free, but there are several glitches that will surface over time. I observed the door locks on this cruiser were malfunctional. Unlocking the driver side door from outside, you could see the lock lever being pushed up, but the door would not open. It had to be opened from inside. With the co-driver, I closed the door shut, while unlocked, and it refused to be opened up.

The dealer's guy also said water seeping through the door near the A pillar would be a concern, as would be rusting. As soon as the first year, the rust could settle in. I was shocked to find all these glitches and drawbacks still existing on a vehicle of today. Lack of features is one part, but whatever features are there, they aren't anywhere near as good as even a M800.

And the middle seat is the absolute worst of all that I have seen. The almost straight back will ensure nobody will be riding with you ever again. It wasn't comfortable for a couple of minutes that I sat in the vehicle after the ride was over, I can't imagine anyone doing it for an hour.

It may be a capable off roader, but going by the quality of features that exists today on this vehicle, I doubt if it will ever become a proper vehicle.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by honeybee

It may be a capable off roader, but going by the quality of features that exists today on this vehicle, I doubt if it will ever become a proper vehicle.

I think your last line above sums up Force Motors line up. They are totally happy with the taxi segment and don't care two hoots about the private market...

[honeybee]

I didn't drive the Cruiser, because it's longer than anything I have ever driven. But after the test ride, I sat in the driver's seat trying to get a feel of things. While everything else was passable, I noticed the gear shifting pattern is weird to say the least.

The pattern looks somewhat similar to this:

R.....2....4
|___|___|
...|..|.....|
...1..3....5

Slotting the gear into the first or the second is a royal pain in the A. This is because you simply can't find their right positions. I had to try about three to four times before I could put it in second gear correctly, taking a couple more tries for the first. The lever has a huge amount of play. While I read somewhere the first gear isn't required unless pulling under heavy loads, shifting between second and third will be definitely required in traffic conditions (even offroad). This was a vehicle waiting to be delivered to some customer.