[abhi182]

First things first, we really don't need a car change at this point of time, but have been contemplating this for some time now..esp after my (thankfully) failed attempt to buy a Verna 2 years ago (shot down by high command )

between me & the lady , we drive a Corsa and Swift to work.
Surprisingly, even though the Swift is a lot newer, we usually vie for the Corsa as both of us like the mucho superior handling and composure the vehicle exhibits compared to the Swift.

Having said that, we have been thinking of changing one of the vehicles in favor of something that fits the following:

- the vehicle should be comfortable enough for daily work commutes,

- Yet should be capable enough of allowing me to take long road trips over bad to terrible roads (not that the Corsa doesnt handle that, just that i know it's undergoinga torture test although the swift absolutely cannot)

- Offroading isn't really high on my priority list...

- a composed ride over terrible roads coupled with impeccable highway manners while retaining the capability to drive around in the city...

- all this in a package 10L or low...

The only vehicle that seems to fit in here is the Tata Safari

So we test drove one today
Here are my thoughts
sluggish to start with but opens up after 2K rpm... handling is slushy at best...refinement is notches below the existing cars

but , but....we have a feeling that our long lost roadtrip wanderbug may return back if we get this beast

What is keeping me away though are the niggling issues that one keeps hearing about the Safari..also the fact that ABS is available only on the top end (packed with some silly stufff like DVD players etc that don't need, but which push its prices ~2.5 L above the base variant we want)

So here are a few questions

- The TASS is pretty closeby from where we live so minor niggles should be manageable... However, I wouldn't want to get struck with a breakdown in the middle of nowhere... I know no car can guarantee this , but the Corsa and now the swift too have been so reliable for the last several years that we have started off on 1000 Km + trips without as much as checking the engine oil level

- I am scared of some of the stories I have heard of wheel locks and fishtailing while braking at speeds as low as 80 kmph
We usually do not drive over 100 even on the best GQ stretches, except perhaps a couple of occasions (if the road is straight and the visibility is high) .. But fishtailing at 80 is probably unacceptable

- another weird thing I noticed was that the test drive vehicle that was bought to us didn't have any lettering or indication of the fact that it is a demo car.. I also noticed that the odo/speedo cable was disconnected... I don;t want to name the dealer, but they are a pretty reputable TATA dealership in chennai... I suspect that it was a customer delivery vehicle that was bought to us... Not a very confidence inspiring thing i guess..any other logical explanation for this?

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by abhi182

- the vehicle should be comfortable enough for daily work commutes,

- Yet should be capable enough of allowing me to take long road trips over bad to terrible roads
- Offroading isn't really high on my priority list...

- a composed ride over terrible roads coupled with impeccable highway manners while retaining the capability to drive around in the city...

- all this in a package 10L or low...

The only vehicle that seems to fit in here is the Tata Safari

Have you ruled out the Innova due to its looks? If you don't care about off-road ability and can live with the minivan looks I think this is the best all round tourer you can buy.

Originally Posted by abhi182

What is keeping me away though are the niggling issues that one keeps hearing about the Safari..also the fact that ABS is available only on the top end (packed with some silly stufff like DVD players etc that don't need, but which push its prices ~2.5 L above the base variant we want)

There is a new GX variant which gives you the ABS without the DVD player. They just launched it last week so dealer will know about it in a couple of months

Originally Posted by abhi182

So here are a few questions

- The TASS is pretty closeby from where we live so minor niggles should be manageable... However, I wouldn't want to get struck with a breakdown in the middle of nowhere... I know no car can guarantee this , but the Corsa and now the swift too have been so reliable for the last several years that we have started off on 1000 Km + trips without as much as checking the engine oil level

- I am scared of some of the stories I have heard of wheel locks and fishtailing while braking at speeds as low as 80 kmph
We usually do not drive over 100 even on the best GQ stretches, except perhaps a couple of occasions (if the road is straight and the visibility is high) .. But fishtailing at 80 is probably unacceptable

With Tata it is a coin toss. There are people who have had no issues with their Safari and there are people who have had major issues. But it seems like most folks fit somewhere in the middle. Unfortunately you cannot buy it with the same confidence as the Innova but personally I think it is a fair trade off for the value you get. If you like it, you should go for it. Also realize that since Tata's neglected their flagship SUV for so long with an underpowered engine, it has a bad rap in the used car market. So if you buy it, be prepared to hold it for a while or get hit with depreciation.

Originally Posted by abhi182

- another weird thing I noticed was that the test drive vehicle that was bought to us didn't have any lettering or indication of the fact that it is a demo car.. I also noticed that the odo/speedo cable was disconnected... I don;t want to name the dealer, but they are a pretty reputable TATA dealership in chennai... I suspect that it was a customer delivery vehicle that was bought to us... Not a very confidence inspiring thing i guess..any other logical explanation for this?

Unfortunately, This is a common practice. The dealer in Anna Nagar near the second round about has a demo vehicle which Demo painted in big orange color on the Safari so I would stick with them since they have a demo vehicle and hopefully they don't have to use customer vehicles for a TD.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by abhi182

- the vehicle should be comfortable enough for daily work commutes,

- Yet should be capable enough of allowing me to take long road trips over bad to terrible roads (not that the Corsa doesnt handle that, just that i know it's undergoinga torture test although the swift absolutely cannot)

- Offroading isn't really high on my priority list...

- a composed ride over terrible roads coupled with impeccable highway manners while retaining the capability to drive around in the city...

- all this in a package 10L or low...

The only vehicle that seems to fit in here is the Tata Safari

Err... for me the obvious answer sounds like Innova. And I never heard any horror stories about Innova.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by abhi182

The only vehicle that seems to fit in here is the Tata Safari
....we have a feeling that our long lost roadtrip wanderbug may return back if we get this beast

New ad for the Safari...
When you look back in time, what will you remember?
The beast parked in the corner?
The endless waits in the owners' lounge?
The frantic phone calls to the nearest TASS?

Tata Safari...
Re-claim your warranty...

Take a good look at this thread by one of our esteemed mods (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...sed-horse.html) and you'll probably change your mind.
For your money, Tata Motors WILL deliver to you a Safari, brand new, with built-in factory-fitted anti-reliability softwares and warranties, ensuring multiple visits to the ASCs within the first 2000 km.

[Akshay1234]

if you dont mind the looks check out the innova. fits your bill. it has the better highway manners than the safari though its ride over bad roads is a bit worse than the safari. and since you dont intend on doing offroading if recommend you td it.

[BlackPearl]

You can have a look at the newly launched Tata Xenon too. It can seat 5 people, should be able to handle rough roads and it is good looking. You can take a test drive and find out the ride quality when the loading bay is empty.

[abhi182]

wow...and I was hoping that Tata Motors would have been able to fix these issue since the safari has been on the market for so long now

if you dont mind the looks check out the innova. fits your bill. it has the better highway manners than the safari though its ride over bad roads is a bit worse than the safari. and since you dont intend on doing offroading if recommend you td it.

I don't mind the looks..In fact, 2 months ago, we did a ~2K km drive across Kinnaur in a self drive rental Innova which is what kinda triggered this idea
having said that, I don't mind the looks of the Innova...For me, practicality is the primary and only criteria but the WAF for the Innova is very low

It's unfortunate though that there really isn't a dependable cross-over south of 10L in India

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by abhi182

I don't mind the looks..In fact, 2 months ago, we did a ~2K km drive across Kinnaur in a self drive rental Innova which is what kinda triggered this idea
having said that, I don't mind the looks of the Innova...For me, practicality is the primary and only criteria but the WAF for the Innova is very low

Just curious where did you rent the Innova from? Was it in chennai? I am looking to rent an Innova for a couple of days in chennai.

[adc]

Originally Posted by abhi182

Offroading isn't really high on my priority list...

- a composed ride over terrible roads coupled with impeccable highway manners while retaining the capability to drive around in the city...

- all this in a package 10L or low...

The only vehicle that seems to fit in here is the Tata Safari

Absolutely not, your need so fits the Innova - as you are okay with the looks and also considering the stated riding style.

Plus Innova has that reliablity edge [one of I know uses the Innova as taxi he has not ever complained with all the city running]. Though some owners have posted it being somewhat rough on bad roads, but that of course you will take on your stride. Majority Safari Dicors does not come near to Innova in reliablity and thats proven.

I am scared of some of the stories I have heard of wheel locks and fishtailing while braking at speeds as low as 80 kmph. We usually do not drive over 100 even on the best GQ stretches, except perhaps a couple of occasions (if the road is straight and the visibility is high) .. But fishtailing at 80 is probably unacceptable

A few of the Dicor owners did say about it, though last what I read, all of them had that problem permanently sorted out.

Again, what you posted, for you it is definitely the Innova. No more doubting.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

For your money, Tata Motors WILL deliver to you a Safari, brand new, with built-in factory-fitted anti-reliability softwares and warranties, ensuring multiple visits to the ASCs within the first 2000 km.

Here's another one post, no substance - It is these kind of blanket statements and remarks that denigrate a discussion/debate into a slander match - and most probably you are doing it deliberately - just to invite some more divisive comments.

I will have a good reply later today morning, just logged in late night, so for now good night.

And when you come online, go through these posts

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...2-2-t-bhp.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post1195211

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by abhi182

First things first, we really don't need a car change at this point of time, but have been contemplating this for some time now..esp after my (thankfully) failed attempt to buy a Verna 2 years ago (shot down by high command )
................................

abhi, the first thing that came to my mind when i read your post was the innova- the most comfortable & reliable car for highways, in that price range. safari is a great SUV, its just these issues which bother me.
also, if you drive yourself, i would also advise you to TD the scorpio mHawk.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

New ad for the Safari...
When you look back in time, what will you remember?
The beast parked in the corner?
The endless waits in the owners' lounge?
The frantic phone calls to the nearest TASS?

Tata Safari...
Re-claim your warranty...

Take a good look at this thread by one of our esteemed mods (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...sed-horse.html) and you'll probably change your mind.
For your money, Tata Motors WILL deliver to you a Safari, brand new, with built-in factory-fitted anti-reliability softwares and warranties, ensuring multiple visits to the ASCs within the first 2000 km.

[jkdas]

One happy owner. 30k plus.

I like the Innova but it doesnt suit my driving style. Lovely product its is. Not loaded with gimmicks like Safari EX even for G4. Bad when you pay 10lac up for it.

And abhi, Innova seats 7 comfortably.

raj: how much will a mHawk cost OTR?

And why not talk to nitrous about Safari as he has one in Chennai.

Do check, Xylo too. VFM.

[zenx]

Hey, my requirements are extremely close to yours, and i've done a fair bit of research on the Safari. For me one reason to change is the lifestyle aspect - the Safari does seem to rekindle the desire to get out and go places. You mentioned that as well.

From what I've heard from owners and professionals in the field, the diesel engines in the Safari (all 3!) are totally bullet proof. The parts most susceptible to issues are electrical, and more recently and in a few cases, some sensors etc. Yes, some new Safaris have had to be "broken in" but at the same time a lot many more have had near nothing by way of anything that should worry you on long trips. At the same time, I've come across "niggles" from pretty much each manufacturer (a few searches across the forum will get you all you need) but from what I've seen, Tata supports the Safari owners real well. Also, when you need support out there, a Tata dealership is usually somewhere close-by, and usually helpful. Even when it comes to getting major stuff done, you can "afford" a Tata forever. I've had a few scared with the Honda on that front, and I suspect Toyota will be no different.

Overall, the Innova is 99% head, and the Safari is 60% head and 40% heart (ok, those are totally pulled out of random hats but please go with the intent here ) I'd say if you like the Safari, and are ok with putting in some effort to "make it work", it'll work beautifully for you. If, otoh, you're a consumer who wants a guranteed safe experience, and are willing to pay extra for it, the Innovas your thing, even if its a tad boring.

I've owned a Pulsar (the first lot), and a Honda. i've had to work some for maintaining the former, and spend packets of moolah on a couple of niggles in the latter but have had a super-reliable ownership otherwise. But both have been equally fun, and the Pulsar's never given up on me either - just that I "look out for it" a little more though I'm not technically aware, nor do Iike getting my hands dirty. I'm expecting the Safari to be more like the Pulsar, really, and am ok with it.

Edit : An oh, on TBhp the Safari guys have a (good) habit of discussing every little issue, and every little possible cause and its resolution. Again, there are many more who actually don't do that because they've had few/no issues. But one can easily get pulled into a sense of apalling quality and build, when the reality is much less severe. No way I'll call them as reliable as innovas, but I'd say make a rational judgement after speaking to real owners as well, and checking out a few service histories (all brands). Its never as b&w as people make it out to be.

Had started a poll for the 2.2s : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...lity-poll.html As more people respond (and do remember to discount non-owner votes) the picture should get a little clearer.

[suman]

Abhi, from the below sentance, it looks like you've thought hard about it & the Innova doesn't seem to be on your radar. So I will not suggest it. I will say - go for the Safari if you're satisfied on all your parameters after a test drive

Originally Posted by abhi182

The only vehicle that seems to fit in here is the Tata Safari

I also agree whole-heartedly with Sameer's analysis below, I think we Safari owners tend to discuss even minor hiccups threadbare & that has lead to a lot of doubts in the minds of prospective buyers. Nothing to get overly worried about

Originally Posted by zenx

Edit : An oh, on TBhp the Safari guys have a (good) habit of discussing every little issue, and every little possible cause and its resolution. Again, there are many more who actually don't do that because they've had few/no issues. But one can easily get pulled into a sense of apalling quality and build, when the reality is much less severe. No way I'll call them as reliable as innovas, but I'd say make a rational judgement after speaking to real owners as well, and checking out a few service histories (all brands). Its never as b&w as people make it out to be.

As for posts like below, unfortunately they are a dime a dozen on this forum these days. They add no value whatsoever but I guess the posters think that they are displaying a great sense of humour - anyway, the less said the better

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

New ad for the Safari...
When you look back in time, what will you remember?
The beast parked in the corner?
The endless waits in the owners' lounge?
The frantic phone calls to the nearest TASS?

Tata Safari...
Re-claim your warranty...

[DieselFan]

Ever wondered why Safari has the lowest after sales value in that segment??

After sales value is the true reflection of reliability and expenses incurred on the used car.

[tsk1979]

If all you want is a comfortable highway cruiser with ability to take bad roads on a budget, I would advise you the MUVs i,e Sumo Grande/Xylo/Innova etc.,
You want to buy a 2WD vehicle, and if you want features like ABS etc., in your budget, I think Xylo can deliver all that. For your needs and budget Xylo/Innova actually make better sense.
As for apprehension stuff, I can comment, but my observations/advice would be biased, since most of the apprehensions etc., you have stated are with the safari I own

And ss-Traveller, your sense of humor seems pretty nasty, but I actually burst out laughing about your new ad.
Now whenever I think about safari ads I think about the endless cups of bland nescafe coffee devoured in the first floor waiting lounge of Autolinks I am already on first name basis with the mechanics and service adviser. Any more visits, and I will be hugging them like best buddies.

but as JKdas said there are a lot of happy owners of the safari 2.2 on the forum, and after my circus gets over, I am looking forward to miles and miles of happy motoring.
Probably next weekend the safari will have her acid test, ride to Sangla valley