[Sawyer]

Before I set out my questions for input, a little story.
I was standing by the side of the road in Pune, when a white hard top Gypsy drove up and parked. Sikh gentleman of about 65-70 got out and walked away, leaving his wife of similar years inside. Since my thinking on the titled line had begun, I took the chance to look inside the car, and talk to the users. Here is what I found out. The man is not ex services, let me say that first, I asked.
1. The car is 20 years old, single owner, based in Pune.
2. Looks well kept, given its age.
3. The lady told me that she is very comfortable in either of the two front seats. She said she had trouble in the earlier Amby, before they switched to this car.
4. They have made reasonably long trips in the car - Goa, Vadodara and the like. No distress at the end of the day.
5. No maintenance issues for the car in Pune. Happy with Sai Service, the mainstream dealer, and have now found a MASS with a Gypsy specialist closer by to their home, which is close to mine.
6. To my questions about PS, the lady said she did not yearn for it. When I asked about the AC, she said all I have to is open the window
7. When I asked about the ride at the back, the man told me that he really doesnt care about that, because he doesn't sit there. Neither does his wife!
With that background, here is the post itself and my needs and the driving environment. This will be a second car, normal needs are well provided already. Budget, Rs 6-7 lakhs, though anything saved is always very welcome.
1. 90% of the time, 2 people in the car,age 50. Fit, but 50.
2. Used for trips outside the city into the hills around Pune, including places such as Mahabaleshwar etc. Occassional drives to Goa, depending on the destination agenda. To be also used to get off the beaten track at these places, and to go by roads less travelled. Some of the roads will need 4x4, some will need low range. We should not need a days rest to recover when we get to the destination! Seeing a recent post, we may drive to Ladakh too, but I know that this may be a character testing thing to do in such a car, so that is ok, it will be meant to be!
3. Reasonable FE. 10 kms/litre of Petrol levels are ok. Either fuel is ok as long as all other needs are met.
4. As I write this, given the pleasant climate in Pune just now, it is easy to say no AC needed, but I know that I may have second thoughts, so AC, even fitted aftermarket should be a viable option. PS not required.
5. I will also use the car in the city, frequently, so it needs to be driveable in city conditions, and reasonably easy to park. Not like the Defender, the one time I drove it in Bangalore traffic.
6. It should be lockable, to prevent theft of anything left inside. And of the car itself.
7. Reliability of a high standard, in all conditions - at the levels of modern Indian cars. Maintenance should not need me to leave Pune to get the car seen to.
8. Should last for and be maintainable for the next ten/fifteen years. With very little down time.
Given all of the above, the choice to my mind is a hard top Gypsy. Heart says soft top, but I think I may need to get at least an ounce of practicality into this.
Opening up the subject now to advice from people who know better, on - what car?!
Thank you!

.

[Takumi-san]

From what I understand, its quite hard to buy a new Gypsy. I remember reading up about someone here who wanted one and finally went in for the Bolero as it made more sense. Have you looked at the Bolero ? Suits your criteria too.

[Sawyer]

I checked!! Promised delivery in 30 days of booking. Will review the Bolero though, thanks - does it have a reliable 4x4 and a low range transfer case?

[Sha]

Mine is new Gypsy completed only 9 months, driven 25k both Highway and Extreme OTR's.
A Gypsy lover will not think he will buy it first.
Gypsy is fuel Guzler is myth mine gives me 13 KMPL in highway and 9-10 in city.
Buy it you will not regret it, only those sitting in back will have issues no problems in front.

[Sawyer]

I knew you would be for the Gypsy, Sha! I guess you are a delighted owner. Any thoughts about the hardtop/softtop subject? What are your thoughts on maintenance issues if any for your car?
And now that you are back from the Leh Odyssey - during the entire trip, all the way from Blr to there and back, were there any times when you wished you were driving another car? If so, why?

[headers]

@sawyer: A new gypsy king mpfi makes better sense for you sir! You could fix an A/c and take it where ever you want to as long as you fill her up..

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by headers

@sawyer: A new gypsy king mpfi makes better sense for you sir! You could fix an A/c and take it where ever you want to as long as you fill her up..

Can't do the AC thing on a soft top right? Or can I in some way that leaves the rear seats out of the equation? Best of both worlds?
And in a soft top is there a way to have the front cabin made lockable, while having the soft top kind of environment at the back? Open as well as covered options?

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

1. 90% of the time, 2 people in the car,age 50. Fit, but 50.

Do understand that ride quality in a stock Gypsy will NEVER = a car. However it is can be made reasonably comortable by various ways like better seats, better suspension etc.

2. Used for trips outside the city into the hills around Pune, including places such as Mahabaleshwar etc. Occassional drives to Goa, depending on the destination agenda. To be also used to get off the beaten track at these places, and to go by roads less travelled. Some of the roads will need 4x4, some will need low range. We should not need a days rest to recover when we get to the destination! Seeing a recent post, we may drive to Ladakh too, but I know that this may be a character testing thing to do in such a car, so that is ok, it will be meant to be!

Well not many vehicles in 6-7 L range can do this apart from Gypsy (or a Bolero. I don't know if the 4x4 version is < 6-7 L or more)

3. Reasonable FE. 10 kms/litre of Petrol levels are ok. Either fuel is ok as long as all other needs are met.

The 1.3 Mpfi Gypsy that you get these days gives ~12+ on highway and ~9-10 in heavy city traffic

4. As I write this, given the pleasant climate in Pune just now, it is easy to say no AC needed, but I know that I may have second thoughts, so AC, even fitted aftermarket should be a viable option. PS not required.

In a HT Gypsy, IT WILL GET HOT in summers. No two ways about it. However, an effective A/C can be easily fitted for ~25-30K from MASS itself

5. I will also use the car in the city, frequently, so it needs to be driveable in city conditions, and reasonably easy to park. Not like the Defender, the one time I drove it in Bangalore traffic.

It is VERY easy to drive, park etc etc. Even my wifey prefers driving the Gypsy in the city to the Hatchback.

6. It should be lockable, to prevent theft of anything left inside. And of the car itself.

The HT gives you a semblance of security but you would ned to think of rear window Glasses. they can be easily opened .

7. Reliability of a high standard, in all conditions - at the levels of modern Indian cars. Maintenance should not need me to leave Pune to get the car seen to.

Nothing beats the Gypsy here. PERIOD. The BEST 4x4 reliability you can get in India under 7L

8. Should last for and be maintainable for the next ten/fifteen years. With very little down time.

Will be going strong even later than that

the choice to my mind is a hard top Gypsy. Heart says soft top, but I think I may need to get at least an ounce of practicality into this.

Go for HT. It looks good and would serve all your needs.

[Sha]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I knew you would be for the Gypsy, Sha! I guess you are a delighted owner. Any thoughts about the hardtop/softtop subject? What are your thoughts on maintenance issues if any for your car?
And now that you are back from the Leh Odyssey - during the entire trip, all the way from Blr to there and back, were there any times when you wished you were driving another car? If so, why?

Firstly about softtop/hardtop, hardtop is good if you are fixing AC and allergic to dust but it's easy to remove it say in about 15-20 Min, What I have learnt after meeting many owners of gypsy hardtop tends to vibrate and after few years it cracks and I have seen this in Manali, So hardtop only for highway drive.
Softtop my choice, can modify according to requirements, you can buid as per your idea say semi hard top. Softtop makes heavy sound inside the cabin but now I am used to it, Been to many forest once softtop is opened you will feel like in different world inside forest with grenary, you can play with softtop but can't with hardtop.
maintaince issue NIL, once you buy new one you are covered in warranty for 4 years. So for only front shaft i have changed it's due to manufacturing defect but covered in warranty so no problem.

Softtop Gypsy photos.. without cover.

[GoSlow]

Sawyer

You should go for the Hard Top Gypsy. My Gypsy 13 year old gypsy had a hard top till last year. Never had any cracks or creaks. Have AC fitted as well and it works reasonably well. Get an additional blower fitted as the standard blower in the gypsy is not strong enough.

will post couple of pics with and without the hard top:

I still have the AC with the soft top over the front cabin and it works fine. Though you cannot leave stuff lying around inside the vehicle now. I have fitted a gear lock to prevent theft.

Gypsy is the most reliable 4x4 (just my opinion, I may be wrong) and over the past 13 years ands 98K kms it has worked without any major faults. Just service it and drive it!!

Cheers
Ankit

[Sha]

Originally Posted by GoSlow

I have fitted a gear lock to prevent theft.

Ankit

Which company makes gearlock for gypsy and photos please how have you fixed gear lock, I tried for many months no company makes gear lock for Gypsy.

[Sawyer]

Thank for the pics - and to think that in cars we pay extra for the sunroofs!
I was about to ask for pics, the problem is that one cannot check this car out in the showroom, so these pics are very helpful.
1. I assume that these are as the car comes in OE form, with just the soft top removed?
2. The soft top itself is one piece that goes over the entire car, from the rear end to the top of the front windshield?
3. Under the soft top one could make a soft top material based curtain that isolates the front cabin, and run an AC to cool the two front seats? May not be totally sealed off, but good enough to cool just the front compartment?
I realize of course that in this configuration, theft can be an issue, but other than that, and leaving the rear seats with a bad ride and only natural aircon, is there any other issue?
4. Does the buttoned down soft top keep the rain out?
Once again, appreciate the pics, just what I was looking for.

PS: Ankit, thanks, look forward to any pics you can post too.
PPS: Ok, got the pics. The AC should really work well now that it has to cool just the front cabin? And you have a separate soft top that you can cover the rear with? I also assume that you can convert this to an open car from end to end.
And khan_sultan, thanks for the detailed responses, very helpful indeed.

[COUGAR]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

And in a soft top is there a way to have the front cabin made lockable, while having the soft top kind of environment at the back? Open as well as covered options?

Simple answer: no. the entire cabin has to be a hard top as one unit unless u are planning to get a half cabin or something.

I have seen softtops with an AC fitted but the issue is effectiveness: some amount of cooling is lost.

I am one of those who bought a Gypsy brand new but that was only because I keep going to the forests on some work and a regular car is not an option.

I have never taken the Gypsy out on Pune city roads and certainly not in the peth area: for that i prefer my Maruti 800. The Gypsy, as it is sold, is not a good option for touring either since the ride is awfully bumpy and the seats arent designed with comfort in mind. Then there is the value equation: especially for a brand new gypsy. I paid 5.5lakhs cash down to get mine in 2007: and what we get is a bare platform and 2 seats with a canvas top. For that money i could have got a Bolero SLX with all the bells and whistles like AC and PS etc. At that time there was a model called the Bolero Sportz avail for 4.88l on road with BS3 engine which also had AC and PS. For just 26k more i could have fitted the manual 4WD. So the value question makes the Gypsy dicey.

But on the pro-s side, the Gypsy can go to places where few others can. Plus the Gypsy is a bare platform suitable for a host of modifications either for offroading or practical use. And when you got to have a gypsy you got to have one!

My advice to you will be that the Gypsy is a good SECOND or third CAR. If you already have a primary car for regular city/highway use then go for a Gypsy. And keep your expectations low. that way you wont be dissapointed!

PS: Dont go by the bull that Sai Service dishes out about 1 month delivery. I booked mine in April 2006 on the same assurance. It eventually came only in Feb 2007 and that too only after the intervention of someone within Maruti. Maruti only manufactures the Gypsy in lots based on orders mostly from the services and govt. You rorder will be taken up as part of a lot: that could be the next month or that could be a year away!

[AirWind]

There was Mahindra Bolero's soft-top version called Invader, kind of resembled the Wrangler, not sure if it is still sold! But the Bolero's are worth a second look, especially their simpler construction, repair anywhere attitude, sipping cheaper and can possibly take adulterated fuel available rurally.

If you still choose the Gypsy, you are better off buying a pre-owned, there may just be a handful of un-abused pcs in the market, but its still makes a better buy!

[comfortablynumb]

For getting the Gypsy, another option is to buy an ex-Army Gypsy from their auctions. However, the auctions are few and far between. Also, this is a viable alternative only if you know someone in Southern Command, Pune, so that you get advance notice of the auction and can do some "setting" accordingly :-).

Cheers,
Vikram