[columbus]

Hi! everybody

Need your opinions here

Current setup

Self - Honda City (NHC) Year 2004 Done 45K on ODO.
Wife - Zen estillo Year 2007 Done 18K on ODO

Its been 5 years driving the city and i just love this car. There are some vehicles that the moment you get inside her , you know she is gonna
take you home. You have blind confidence in her.
I have taken her deep in Kumaon Himalayas upto Munsiyari from Bhopal. She has touched the golden sands of Jaisalmer and traversed on some of the worst roads in the country in Madhya Pradesh. Yet after 5 years and 45K she still drives like new. No rattles, No squeaks...nothing.
Not a single part has failed ...heck even the battery is original. Only changed the tyres at 35K before going to Rajasthan. I have kept her well...2 servicings in a year with oil change and thats it. She looks just new and dont want to sell her of. The Japs certainly know how to make
a reliable car.

The Estillo is with us for 2 years. Since both me and wife work in same office its me who drives this boat of a car 70% of the time. Its 30% of the time my wife drives it for office/ shopping binges/ tailors/ picking up our daughter from in-laws place...etc
And i hate driving it, rolls like a ship, low end torque is zilch, have to down shift constantly, flimsy built, rattle..rattle, horrible suspension etc.
You might ask why did you buy it then. Well had booked the Chevy Spark but due to some really snobish attitued of the dealer cancelled the booking and bought an Estillo. Regretting it till date

Need :

Lets say i am badly bitten by the travel bug and if there ain't a mountain to climb then i consider driving in plains is just a penance for my past sins. I plan to make atleast two trips in a year to the Himalayas and one or two
in the plains. During the trip to Munsyari in Kumaon the City performed brilliantly. Only a couple of times did the GC became an issue. That too was solved by throwing some stones in ruts left by trucks.
I was taking my City to Ladakh this june. Had 40K servicing...added sump gaurd and was all set to go. But at the last minute had to cancel the trip because a close relative of mine expired.
I am aware that i can take my city to 99% of places but its that extra 1% to explore..that thrill of doing that extra 1% is irrestible. That extra confidence a SUV gives you to handle difficult terrain. And so I am now in the market for a 4x4.

Options
I dream of buying a Fortuner but to face the truth ...way beyond budget. I have a budget of 10L give and take 1L. Whatever car i buy now should serve me well for next 7-10 years.

A
Keep both the cars and buy a new Gypsy. Cheapest option. But not at all suitable for long trips with family. Though i like the Gypsy. Modify it to your needs and a killer vehicle.

B
Sell the estillo. Give the Honda to wife and buy a Safari for self.
Now the Tata guys certainly know how to run an ad campaign.
"Make your own road"
"Reclaim your life"
"What would you remember when you look back in life"
They just pull the right cords in your heart.

Every time i see a Safari my heart just pops in my mouth. Its a beautiful beast. Its only the reliability part which i am really worried about. And after having tasted Honda reliability i don't know how will i adjust to a Tata. Another issue is that in 10-11L i'll get the 4x4 EX variant which unfortunately does not has ABS and Air-bags.
Also the talks of an Safari upgrade coming in 2010 ??? worth waiting or ??

C
Instead of the Safari buy the recently launched 4x4 scorpio mHawk. However on seeing the scorp it just does'nt genarate those feelings which a Safari does. I guess its the soul which plays a major role in buying a car. At least for me..

D
A couple of days back somebody gave me an offer on a second hand GV. 2007 model, done 25K, Black colour and in excellent shape for 9L. And after reading Sudev's GV accounts i am all open for this option. Its again Jap...so reliabile with MASS. Has ABS + Airbags. only drawback ...PETROL.
I can use the City for city use and GV for long trips. Does not seem a bad option..??

Please give your opinions / more options in view of above

Thanks

[jkdas]

Not gonna confuse you more

But get one with 4x4!

And cant you bargain for the Vitara?

[columbus]

yes JK it has to be a 4x4. There is no doubt in it. Otherwise the City does a good job.
As for the Vitara i did not take it seriously in the begining but the more i think about it may not be a bad option. Its just that buying a second hand vehicle that too a 4x4. The guy might have unknowingly used 4L on termac to get more power...

[Ketan]

Originally Posted by columbus

The guy might have unknowingly used 4L on termac to get more power...

Dont think so! he must have known about when to use it when he is buying a 4WD vehicle.Find out more details about option D and take a call, if thats not the route you are going, Option B is my choice.

[sudev]

Hehehe...is see you are badly bitten by 4x4 and travel bug!

Seriously. First be very clear about your budget.

Second 2007 GV's with reasonable low odo are in market for ~8 lacs. Bargain hard.

Yes GV is a satisfying experience and reasonably cost effective. Vis the Safari with its niggles the 2~3lacs saved means that the 30% fuel price advantage can more or less take a hike.

That said seriously question why you want 4x4 and will GV be the answer?

[freewheelburnin]

I have marked out in bold some of the things you have mentioned.I would like to put in some advice
1)Safari,fortuner etc have body roll.They should be driven in a particular way if you want to avoid Body roll.If body roll in Estillo bothers you please dont go ahead with plans of buying an S.U.V.
2)But if you are willing to compromise, then Safari is the most V.F.M option out there.Under 10 lakhs a Safari is the S.U.V which offers maximum comfort,leg space,looks and least body roll.
3)An innova would be a perfect choice if you need slightly more refinement and least body roll.It drives like a car and would be an easy migration from a honda city.Though Innova can take a lot of abuse, it cannot handle really bad roads as good as say a Safari.It is not an S.U.V.
4)G.V is a good option if you do not mind the fuel expenses.
5)I would suggest you to test drive Safari, Innova and the used Grand Vitara.If you are not going for a used car loan and the Vitara is in good condition, then it is not a bad choice.

Originally Posted by columbus

Hi! everybody

Need your opinions here

Current setup

Self - Honda City (NHC) Year 2004 Done 45K on ODO.
Wife - Zen estillo Year 2007 Done 18K on ODO

Its been 5 years driving the city and i just love this car. There are some vehicles that the moment you get inside her , you know she is gonna
take you home. You have blind confidence in her.
I have taken her deep in Kumaon Himalayas upto Munsiyari from Bhopal. She has touched the golden sands of Jaisalmer and traversed on some of the worst roads in the country in Madhya Pradesh. Yet after 5 years and 45K she still drives like new. No rattles, No squeaks...nothing.
Not a single part has failed ...heck even the battery is original. Only changed the tyres at 35K before going to Rajasthan. I have kept her well...2 servicings in a year with oil change and thats it. She looks just new and dont want to sell her of. The Japs certainly know how to make
a reliable car.

The Estillo is with us for 2 years. Since both me and wife work in same office its me who drives this boat of a car 70% of the time. Its 30% of the time my wife drives it for office/ shopping binges/ tailors/ picking up our daughter from in-laws place...etc
And i hate driving it, rolls like a ship, low end torque is zilch, have to down shift constantly, flimsy built, rattle..rattle, horrible suspension etc.
You might ask why did you buy it then. Well had booked the Chevy Spark but due to some really snobish attitued of the dealer cancelled the booking and bought an Estillo. Regretting it till date

Need :

Lets say i am badly bitten by the travel bug and if there ain't a mountain to climb then i consider driving in plains is just a penance for my past sins. I plan to make atleast two trips in a year to the Himalayas and one or two
in the plains. During the trip to Munsyari in Kumaon the City performed brilliantly. Only a couple of times did the GC became an issue. That too was solved by throwing some stones in ruts left by trucks.
I was taking my City to Ladakh this june. Had 40K servicing...added sump gaurd and was all set to go. But at the last minute had to cancel the trip because a close relative of mine expired.
I am aware that i can take my city to 99% of places but its that extra 1% to explore..that thrill of doing that extra 1% is irrestible. That extra confidence a SUV gives you to handle difficult terrain. And so I am now in the market for a 4x4.

Options
I dream of buying a Fortuner but to face the truth ...way beyond budget. I have a budget of 10L give and take 1L. Whatever car i buy now should serve me well for next 7-10 years.

A
Keep both the cars and buy a new Gypsy. Cheapest option. But not at all suitable for long trips with family. Though i like the Gypsy. Modify it to your needs and a killer vehicle.

B
Sell the estillo. Give the Honda to wife and buy a Safari for self.
Now the Tata guys certainly know how to run an ad campaign.
"Make your own road"
"Reclaim your life"
"What would you remember when you look back in life"
They just pull the right cords in your heart.

Every time i see a Safari my heart just pops in my mouth. Its a beautiful beast. Its only the reliability part which i am really worried about. And after having tasted Honda reliability i don't know how will i adjust to a Tata. Another issue is that in 10-11L i'll get the 4x4 EX variant which unfortunately does not has ABS and Air-bags.
Also the talks of an Safari upgrade coming in 2010 ??? worth waiting or ??

C
Instead of the Safari buy the recently launched 4x4 scorpio mHawk. However on seeing the scorp it just does'nt genarate those feelings which a Safari does. I guess its the soul which plays a major role in buying a car. At least for me..

D
A couple of days back somebody gave me an offer on a second hand GV. 2007 model, done 25K, Black colour and in excellent shape for 9L. And after reading Sudev's GV accounts i am all open for this option. Its again Jap...so reliabile with MASS. Has ABS + Airbags. only drawback ...PETROL.
I can use the City for city use and GV for long trips. Does not seem a bad option..??

Please give your opinions / more options in view of above

Thanks

[madan80]

a well used x-trail can also take you to those places in diesel comfort. Its really comfortable to drive on the highway as well.

A new vehicle will be better than a pre-owned one- HOWEVEr - if you can get the GV - nothing like it.

[columbus]

Originally Posted by sudev

Second 2007 GV's with reasonable low odo are in market for ~8 lacs. Bargain hard.

Yes GV is a satisfying experience and reasonably cost effective. Vis the Safari with its niggles the 2~3lacs saved means that the 30% fuel price advantage can more or less take a hike.

That said seriously question why you want 4x4 and will GV be the answer?

Sir

Thanks for the rough price of 2 year old GVs. I also had the figure of
8 in my mind as reasonable. And as said by you 2~3 lacs saved will definitely negate the diesel advantage.

As i said earlier this will not be my prime mover for daily use. The City will continue to be the daily work horse. The GV will primarily be used for Highway tours which will total about 5 to 10K kms in a year.

I am not into offroading but i love to drive and do like to visit offbeat places. The 800 Km drive in the Kumaon Himalayas in May08 (Haldwani-KAusani-Chokori-Munsyari-Jageshwar-Haldwani) was really exciting. I was also taking my City to Ladakh this year. However at the back of my
mind i know that City is not the right vehicle for this terrain. And i do have a very long list of must visit offbeat places in the Himalayas.
Thats the principal reason i want to go for a 4x4.

Originally Posted by freewheelburnin

I have marked out in bold some of the things you have mentioned.I would like to put in some advice
1)Safari,fortuner etc have body roll.They should be driven in a particular way if you want to avoid Body roll.If body roll in Estillo bothers you please dont go ahead with plans of buying an S.U.V.
2)But if you are willing to compromise, then Safari is the most V.F.M option out there.Under 10 lakhs a Safari is the S.U.V which offers maximum comfort,leg space,looks and least body roll.
3)An innova would be a perfect choice if you need slightly more refinement and least body roll.It drives like a car and would be an easy migration from a honda city.Though Innova can take a lot of abuse, it cannot handle really bad roads as good as say a Safari.It is not an S.U.V.
4)G.V is a good option if you do not mind the fuel expenses.
5)I would suggest you to test drive Safari, Innova and the used Grand Vitara.If you are not going for a used car loan and the Vitara is in good condition, then it is not a bad choice.

Thanks for you suggestions. I have driven both the Innova and the Safari and agree with you that Innova drives like a car. I understand that all SUVs have body roll thats because of their inherent design. But a hatch back like Estillo having body roll like a Safari is unacceptable.

OH thanks for pointing out...do banks give loan for used cars and if yes are they any different for new car ones..??

Originally Posted by madan80

a well used x-trail can also take you to those places in diesel comfort. Its really comfortable to drive on the highway as well.

A new vehicle will be better than a pre-owned one- HOWEVEr - if you can get the GV - nothing like it.

X-trail cannot be serviced in Bhopal. So not an option.
Yes only because its a GV that i got interested. Otherwise nothing like the smell of a new car.

[MileCruncher]

Columbus, if you are looking at buying a 4x4 with the aim of going to places away from the normal route, then my suggestion would be to buy something which has a very strong service network and its parts are easily available.

But as Sudev already said, do you think you really need a 4x4?

[uneet]

Considering your requirements and budget, I strongly suggest you to wait for a couple of months for the upcoming SKODA YETI. It should be in showrooms by JAN'10.
It's likely to come in 1.2TSI Petrol and 1.4 Diesel with very strong 4x4 capabilities. The TD by Autoshow did surprise many and if priced correctly, this car is capable to taking Skoda sales to a new high.
It's having just the right size, right height and one of the best petrol engines to be coming to India. Should be priced in the range of 10-11L. The comfort, luxury and features are going to be way ahead of any other cars you are considering.

[columbus]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Columbus, if you are looking at buying a 4x4 with the aim of going to places away from the normal route, then my suggestion would be to buy something which has a very strong service network and its parts are easily available.

But as Sudev already said, do you think you really need a 4x4?

The only three companies coming to my mind which have strong service network in remote area are Maruti / TATA / Mahindra.
However with the current modern cars like the Safari / Scorpio / Vitara with their computerised heads i doubt they can be repaired at remote workshops.
The choice is then left to vehicles like the Bolero / Sumo which are actually repairable anywhere. These are great vehicles however i need some luxury too..
And paying a small premium for a 4x4 which you may use sometime is i think worth it in my books.

Originally Posted by uneet

Considering your requirements and budget, I strongly suggest you to wait for a couple of months for the upcoming SKODA YETI. It should be in showrooms by JAN'10.
It's likely to come in 1.2TSI Petrol and 1.4 Diesel with very strong 4x4 capabilities. The TD by Autoshow did surprise many and if priced correctly, this car is capable to taking Skoda sales to a new high.
It's having just the right size, right height and one of the best petrol engines to be coming to India. Should be priced in the range of 10-11L. The comfort, luxury and features are going to be way ahead of any other cars you are considering.

Thanks for your suggestion. Skoda makes good cars. However their *** and spare pricing is horrendous. Consider this. The cost of original plastic wheel caps for a set of 4

Maruti Estillo - 1150/-
Honda City (NHC) - 1800/-
Chevy Spark - 2800/-
Skoda Fabia - 10800/-

I shudder to think how much the wheel caps of Yeti will cost. Anyway..hearing for a long time that Yeti is coming but when..??

[MileCruncher]

Originally Posted by columbus

The only three companies coming to my mind which have strong service network in remote area are Maruti / TATA / Mahindra.
However with the current modern cars like the Safari / Scorpio / Vitara with their computerised heads i doubt they can be repaired at remote workshops.
The choice is then left to vehicles like the Bolero / Sumo which are actually repairable anywhere. These are great vehicles however i need some luxury too..
And paying a small premium for a 4x4 which you may use sometime is i think worth it in my books.

But even if the computerised heads go bonkers, you can go on a limp mode to the nearest available workshop.

I suggest you TD both the Safari and Scorpio 4x4

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by columbus

A
Keep both the cars and buy a new Gypsy. Cheapest option. But not at all suitable for long trips with family. Though i like the Gypsy. Modify it to your needs and a killer vehicle.

this is the best option for off roading but not at all a practical vehicle for you & your family.

B
Sell the estillo. Give the Honda to wife and buy a Safari for self.
Now the Tata guys certainly know how to run an ad campaign.

Every time i see a Safari my heart just pops in my mouth. Its a beautiful beast. Its only the reliability part which i am really worried about. And after having tasted Honda reliability i don't know how will i adjust to a Tata. Another issue is that in 10-11L i'll get the 4x4 EX variant which unfortunately does not has ABS and Air-bags.
Also the talks of an Safari upgrade coming in 2010 ??? worth waiting or ??

C
Instead of the Safari buy the recently launched 4x4 scorpio mHawk. However on seeing the scorp it just does'nt genarate those feelings which a Safari does. I guess its the soul which plays a major role in buying a car. At least for me..

scorpio SLX 4x4 or VLX 4x4 will come in your budget with ABS but without airbags.
but since its the safari which has struck the chord with you, i think you should go for it leaving all pretensions behind. i agree that "its the soul which plays a major role in buying a car"...

[gshanky]

If you need to buy an SUV right now, then IMO the Grand Vitara seems to be the best option. And like others said, bargain hard and if you get it for say 8L, go for it.

Otherwise, if you could wait a few months, you would have the opportunity to test

1) New Safari
2) Indicruz
3) PAL's compact SUV

[McLaren Rulez]

I'd go with the Vitara. Best deal of the lot, since its a used car. Great ability off the beaten path and a solid rugged machine. A great complement to a car like the NHC.