[//M]

The Endy is the obvious choice in this case.
Go for it and you won't regret it.

[kedarwalke]

Hey I am in the same dillema,confused between a fortuner nad Ford endy.The endy has loadsa of goodies over fortuner!

[.anshuman]

^^ Please post your requirements and expectations from the SUV. My Fortuner ownership thread and Endeavour AT TD thread might prove useful to your research. Feel free to post any queries.

LINKS: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...omes-home.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...automatic.html

[siddheshb]

Also check my reviews on my own Endy, which I got a month back.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-3-0l-4x4.html

The Fortuner looks good, but without AT, and many of the other goodies from the Endy, I am not sure it's worth the price and the waiting period. Also, I have heard persistent reports of brake problems, and a tendency to overturn at high speeds.

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by siddheshb

The Fortuner looks good, but without AT, and many of the other goodies from the Endy, I am not sure it's worth the price and the waiting period. Also, I have heard persistent reports of brake problems, and a tendency to overturn at high speeds.

Fortuner has safer handling with better body control and AWD control. In my Endeavour TD thread i mentioned:

Post#1 Endeavour TD Thread: Rear steps out scarily with spirited cornering can be quite scary and unmanageable by unexperinced drivers

The Fortuner though not as good a handler as the softroaders but the AWD and stiff coil spring suspension make it a safe handler.

Regarding tendency to overturn, A SUV should never be driven like a car. Any vehicle with higher COG can be overturned easily with dangerous manoeuvres.

[joshguy]

Hi my choices by rank

1 Captiva MT/AT - Overall good package
2 Endy - minus is comfort & Service PLUS is road presence
3 Fortuner - Long waiting period
4 Pajero - Outdated and resale value

All the best dude

[ACM]

It;s really irritating that there is no vehicle with the Features, Brakes, Comfort of the Captiva AT, the AT of the Endy and Captiva, the Reliability and Resale of the fortuner, ruggedness & Presence of the Endy and Fortuner, without the bouncy low back and middle row seats of the Endy and without the brakes of the fortuner.

All three are roughly the same price but have very different attributes.

No options coming soon either.

[HappyRoadie]

I think Endeavour is the choice here. Pajero is outdated now and also lacks refinement. According to me Captiva is a soft roader. But one problem I think with Endy is that it has got leaf springs at the rear but overall it is a good vehicle. I have heard that Pajero Sport is about to be launched though I do not know exactly when it will be launched here. So if you can wait then Pajero Sport will be a better choice.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by ACM

It;s really irritating that there is no vehicle with the Features, Brakes, Comfort of the Captiva AT, the AT of the Endy and Captiva, the Reliability and Resale of the fortuner, ruggedness & Presence of the Endy and Fortuner, without the bouncy low back and middle row seats of the Endy and without the brakes of the fortuner.

Come to think of it, the 5 lakh rupee hatch segment was like that a decade ago. You couldn't have the personality of the Zen, the economy of an Indica or the build of an Uno, all in one car. Oh boy, look at the hatch market now!!

Give the SUV segment some time, the market needs to move up (happening gradually). The Fortuner's success has made every other manufacturer sit up and notice. Newer entrants expected in the coming years.

[.anshuman]

^^ I agree. Its the Fortuner which altogether redefined the premium SUV segment. Earlier all the SUV's co-existed peacefully with no one eating each other's Pie but thanks to Fortuner manufacturers like Ford, GM and HM-Mitsubishi are working hard to retain their share in the segment. If Fortuner would not have happened, we would not have got the New Endy with AT, Chevy would never have dropped the Captiva price and Mitsubishi would have never considered Pajero Sport for India.

Just like they say the detergent commercial 'Daag ache hain' Similarly for us customers 'Competition acha hai'.

[n.devdath]

Now, these are my personal opinions about the Fortuner when I had gone to check it out at the local dealership which ended up in me not feeling exhilarated as most of us are about it.
1. The steering wheel is pathetic. Too thin for an SUV, too hard and yes, the adjustment was too little for my liking.
2. The parking brake lever too feels flimsy though I m sure it is tough. My Scorpio's parking brake lever feels so much better to hold and use.
3. For some reason I failed to find a comfortable seating posture from the driver's seat. At the correct seat height, my thighs would touch the steering wheel. If I moved the seat backwards, the pedals would seem too far and I had to stretch myself. I can be of defective build but most other vehicles give me a suitable posture.
4. I was looking for the option of having a flat bay in the Fortuner but the rep told me that inspite of folding all the possible seats, there is no fully flat bay.
5. The middle seat of the middle row is very uncomfortable due to the armrest it conceals.
6. The rear most row, well, is just, a row. Not a row of adult seats.
7. The ride, at least in Bangalore traffic and roads, was bumpy in the middle row.
8. The fit and finish of many interior plastics left a lot to be desired for this segment.
9. All in all, it felt like a shorter(in length) Innova on stilts and a bigger engine with 4wd and a few more gizmos.

Will test the Endy this week and see how it feels.

PS: All this is being done for a friend who is looking for an upgrade.

[evo]

Originally Posted by GTO

Come to think of it, the 5 lakh rupee hatch segment was like that a decade ago. You couldn't have the personality of the Zen, the economy of an Indica or the build of an Uno, all in one car. Oh boy, look at the hatch market now!!

Give the SUV segment some time, the market needs to move up (happening gradually). The Fortuner's success has made every other manufacturer sit up and notice. Newer entrants expected in the coming years.

I agree, its like how the Swift showed manufacturers that a slightly "premium" hatch could sell, the Fortuner has showed that a so called expensive can sell a lot too. However, the CRV was no slow seller till its random 'yen for price increases" !

A Mahindra badged SS Rexton at 13 Lakhs?

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Now, these are my personal opinions about the Fortuner when I had gone to check it out at the local dealership which ended up in me not feeling exhilarated as most of us are about it.

1. The steering wheel is pathetic. Too thin for an SUV, too hard and yes, the adjustment was too little for my liking.

Sir, I drive both Fortuner and Scorpio. The steering wheel is not too thin but the steering wheel you must be used to in Scorpio is tooo thick. The steering is adequately weighted with very good feel and feedback, in comparison the Scorpio's steering might be lighter but feels entirely disconnected from the wheels.

3. For some reason I failed to find a comfortable seating posture from the driver's seat. At the correct seat height, my thighs would touch the steering wheel. If I moved the seat backwards, the pedals would seem too far and I had to stretch myself. I can be of defective build but most other vehicles give me a suitable posture.

I find the driver's seat much much more comfortable and relaxed compared ton the Scorpio's very upright seat and cramped seat.

5. The middle seat of the middle row is very uncomfortable due to the armrest it conceals.

The middle seat in the middle row might be cramped but the other two seats in middle row are very comfortable with individual recline option.

6. The rear most row, well, is just, a row. Not a row of adult seats.

Tell me which other SUV offers better rear most seats(Let's not bring in an Innova here, its made to be a people mover MUV)

7. The ride, at least in Bangalore traffic and roads, was bumpy in the middle row

.

Yes, the ride is bumpy but its much much better than both Scorpio and Endeavour.

8. The fit and finish of many interior plastics left a lot to be desired for this segment.

I agree

9. All in all, it felt like a shorter(in length) Innova on stilts and a bigger engine with 4wd and a few more gizmos.

I disagree, This SUV has more GC and suspension travel for Offroad situations so let's not compare it to a Van/MUV. You did not mention the rockstar engine which pulls like hell from as low as idle and is in peak torque range after 1400rpm. The gearing is spot on, low enough for city use and tall enough to be relaxed on highway.

I have driven this SUV in deep sand and even in 4hl this things powers out of sand in a way you cannot expect from Safari, Scorpio or Pajero. The Engine has real grunt low down, i always find myself driving in a gear higher than i would be driving some other diesel car.

For those looking for just flexible seating and outright comfort get yourself the Innova with lower GC and lesser suspension travel. Fortuner is made to excel both On-Road and Off-Road conditions, with Off -Road i do not just mean OTR's, This SUV can take you to Leh and will let you take some shortcuts with equal ease and you can drive it comfortably to Jaisalmer and try some sand driving. All of above with confidence of being in a Toyota SUV, with the chances of something going wrong a lot lesser than out Desi SUV's.

A lot of us might debate that 90% of the Fortuner owners might never use its 4WD potential ever but why should we worry about them, Innova would have been a better choice for them.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Sir, I drive both Fortuner and Scorpio. The steering wheel is not too thin but the steering wheel you must be used to in Scorpio is tooo thick. The steering is adequately weighted with very good feel and feedback, in comparison the Scorpio's steering might be lighter but feels entirely disconnected from the wheels.

Well, its probably because I m used to the Scorpio's steering wheel but somehow, even my Cielo's steering wheel feels more comfortable. You know, the feel of the material is softer and somehow more cosseting.This was too hard for my liking, but again it is a personal preference.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

I find the driver's seat much much more comfortable and relaxed compared ton the Scorpio's very upright seat and cramped seat.

The Scorpio's seat is a bit cramped for sure but the position is spot on is what I feel. In this, you know, I felt like, sitting in a car and driving an SUV. I have had a very short drive in a Pajero and that felt much better. What I mean here is, and SUV seat, in my opinion, should give you a taller, higher and a more commanding driving position compared to a car.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

The middle seat in the middle row might be cramped but the other two seats in middle row are very comfortable with individual recline option.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Tell me which other SUV offers better rear most seats(Let's not bring in an Innova here, its made to be a people mover MUV)

Keeping the Innova and Xylo out, I guess the Endy may, though I have not sat in it or driven it but the Fortuner doesn't is my point. Maybe no other SUV does too.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Yes, the ride is bumpy but its much much better than both Scorpio and Endeavour.

Dunno about the Endy again and compared to the Scorp, well I d say its on par unless you are on the middle "Raja" seats.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

I disagree, This SUV has more GC and suspension travel for Offroad situations so let's not compare it to a Van/MUV. You did not mention the rockstar engine which pulls like hell from as low as idle and is in peak torque range after 1400rpm. The gearing is spot on, low enough for city use and tall enough to be relaxed on highway.

The engine was good, but, or maybe I m demanding too much for my money, it didnt seem out of this world or anything like that. For example, one drive in the Cruze, just for a drawing a parallel, convinces you that it is a rocket. This unfortunately, did "Delight" me, just satisfied me. And when I spend or tell someone to spend 22 lacs, I expect "Delight"not satisfaction.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

I have driven this SUV in deep sand and even in 4hl this things powers out of sand in a way you cannot expect from Safari, Scorpio or Pajero. The Engine has real grunt low down, i always find myself driving in a gear higher than i would be driving some other diesel car.

No such detail experience here Sir. Just an hour with it in the showroom and 30 minutes of test drive in jam packed Bangalore city.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

For those looking for just flexible seating and outright comfort get yourself the Innova with lower GC and lesser suspension travel. Fortuner is made to excel both On-Road and Off-Road conditions, with Off -Road i do not just mean OTR's, This SUV can take you to Leh and will let you take some shortcuts with equal ease and you can drive it comfortably to Jaisalmer and try some sand driving. All of above with confidence of being in a Toyota SUV, with the chances of something going wrong a lot lesser than out Desi SUV's.

Coming to comfort, I feel, that these premium SUVs at least should satisfy in terms of performance and comfort. That is why they are premium right? If I pay more than twice the amount I would for say, a Scorpio, I expect completeness on all counts, to the best extent. Flexi seating, on road performance, good ride quality and off road caliber. Am I asking too much? For this price?
Coming to reliability, I believe that the Scorpio is equally reliable and the same has been proven by umpteen tourers using the same. Heck, even the Safari has proven its mettle with many TBHPians as well.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

A lot of us might debate that 90% of the Fortuner owners might never use its 4WD potential ever but why should we worry about them, Innova would have been a better choice for them.

No no Sir, I m not one of them. I believe that one should buy an SUV if he/she has the use for it, else buying a wrong vehicle and then cribbing over it doesn't make sense.

I have a few more points/questions for you since you told me that you have extensively used it, so waiting for your reply.

[Paco]

Well... Thanks a lot to everyone for the inputs. Finally, It has been decided... It will be the Endy (unless the financier rogers my case).

Was planning to keep Xena (that's what I will call her) a secret from my wifey, but I somehow need to include her in all of these crazy decisions; she reassures them.

She has chosen the black color. She has not read any of the reviews, hence, I am presenting her perspective of all of those points that we have been debating.

1. It is a 6 seater vehicle with Biz Class seats in the first two rows and mini-biz class seats in the rear only meant for our 4-yr old monkey; and once he outgrows, it would be the Lab. That's it!

2. Steering is thick in the centre... enough to hold to, and she finds it more comfortable than the last vehicle she ever drove, the Alto. That's it!

3. Thank God for the rear-parking camera; the trees will heave a sigh of relief.

4. We'll have to drive slowly, for this rocks sideways.

... and similarly many more. Its just a matter of seeing it from another angle.

Personally speaking, I liked the Fortuner, but wasn't keen on paying 50000 US$ for something which is available at almost half the price internationally. The engine is beautiful, but naaah! The Paj is something which has a nostalgic value, and I would give my right arm if the same 'old' looks were available, but with an autobox. Captiva gives a snobby look, 'hey! stay away, i am almost in the x6 category', but thanks! I wanted the road presence.

So, it would be the black endy 3.0 automatique! Shall keep you guys posted...

@GTO: Should I continue on this thread or should I start a new thread for I wanted to write right from now all the way till I complete a year with the car.