[Technocrat]

Originally Posted by siddheshb

I am not sure why people talk about ride quality - might have been an issue with older Endys but this one simply rocks (not literally!)

Yes, it does have some limitations, so let me elaborate...

2) Middle seats - I haven't sat in the Fortuner or Pajero, so cannot compare to them. It's not very low seating, and the leg space is great too. Under thigh support is also pretty good. Can comfortably take 4 adults. Can jump a little though on sudden speed bumps, but otherwise extremely comfy. Body roll can be a problem on the ghats, though - and we usually make it 4 adults on the middle seat to counter that

3) Last row - low seating, jumps quite a bit. Good for children, or 2-3 adults for short drives. Not recommended for long drives. I usually let my kiddo use it as a bed.. and she loves it. Need to slow down on speed bumps so she doesnt get launched.

So overall, for city driving, ride quality is excellent. For rough roads, ride quality is great for first and middle row. Last row is OK for short drives, or as a bed, or to carry luggage. Avoid jumping bumps when carrying passengers on last seat, avoid screeching on ghat curves when you have less than 4 passengers on middle seat

@siddheshb - The way I read your post, You are actually confirming what people have been saying about the ride quality of an Endeavor on the Middle & Last row seats.

You haven't sat in the SUV of same range so you wouldn't know if its better or worse than the competition. It certainly cant be compared with Innova or Xylo.

I hope the last para about screeching on ghats & jumping bumps was mentioned jokingly.

[siddheshb]

Guess I am a driver at heart, I rarely ever sit any where else... so it doesnt matter much to me. I know my family and friends have also loved accompanying me in my long drives and outings, and no one has really complained about the seatings.. and definitely not in the city...

As far as jumping bumps and screeching, well, yes, I was joking.. almost..

[V-16]

Well Siddheshb, these views are comparative , so the ride is good but compared to a Innova and the Xylo the rear seat comfort is no class and im talking out of experience of sitting in every possible seat of two out of the three vehicles you mention. The Xylo i,ve barely just sat in and driven but i aill take that as ive not experienced it. Also the friends accompanying you were probably doing just that, accompanying you and they were enjoying your company more that actually makes all the difference. I ve been in a Skoda with 9 people in it and really had a blast but if you decipher that Skoda is a comfy 9 seater???No way. I dodnt complain about the seating arrangements coz we were in the mood to get into one car and have fun. So what i saying that your friends too, were there not as persons making seating comparisons, so the fact that they enjoyed does not make the other car less capable. Even the driving position of the Innova is far much more car like and better than the Endevour. The only this that appeals to me is the Endevour's butch looks which make it look like a no nonsense, all American 4x4. otherwise its size is actually underutilized Sorry thats my version.

[n.devdath]

On a different note, this is the issue today. In the 20-25 lac range, the Fortuner rides and brakes bad, the Endy rides and seats bad, the Pajero doesn't have enough grunt and is overpriced, the Santafe is a soft roader and overpriced, the Captiva has no rear ac vents and is a soft roader while the Yeti is an SUV.zip

Not one comprehensive SUV amongst so many models in the market.

[Turbanator]

In the 20-25 lac range, the Fortuner rides and brakes bad,

Yes you are correct but then there is nothing as such a complete Car or SUV - I recently changed Tires of my Fortuner and have found Ride Quality improved significantly , for brakes I think there should be some kind of upgrade available - forums in other countries have some discussions but not much information locally , if we are able to change rear drums to discs things should improve considerably -

I got my fortuner serviced yesterday for 20 K and the bill was less than 4 T and the car feels like we have just bought a new one from Showroom , I surely miss offroad strengths of Pajero but have not come across any place which Fortuner could not cope ( more details soon after I come back from Planned Leh Trip next week )

At the moment best option seems to be Fortuner only

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Yes you are correct but then there is nothing as such a complete Car or SUV - I recently changed Tires of my Fortuner and have found Ride Quality improved significantly , for brakes I think there should be some kind of upgrade available - forums in other countries have some discussions but not much information locally , if we are able to change rear drums to discs things should improve considerably -I surely miss offroad strengths of Pajero but have not come across any place which Fortuner could not cope (more details soon after I come back from Planned Leh Trip next week )

At the moment best option seems to be Fortuner only

I m not ranting for perfection but when I pay 20lac INR I expect the basics like safe and confidence inspiring braking, comfortable ride quality and decent off roadability at least.
I do not want to research forums and modify my 20lac INR vehicle especially when it carries a T badge.
If this is asking too much, I d rather stay away till I can upgrade to a higher level.

[nilanjanray]

The Fortuner brakes are not 'bad' - I can vouch for this after having driven this for 10K+ kms in all sorts of roads, including Nilgiri ghat roads, NHs and 1-lane roads (at high speed).

Just need to get used to it. In fact, after getting used to the different braking and body roll (compared to a sedan), I feel I can push the vehicle more e.g. take turns at higher speeds and carryout maneuvers much more aggressively.

Is Fortuner the best bet among existing ones? I feel YES! Do we deserve more for 20L? Again, yes...but it goes back to my previous Q.

[Monaro CV8]

^^
+1 to that.
I for one have completely experienced the same.
IMO the car needs you to adjust to her, not her job to do otherwise (if u know what I mean).

Coming from driving the octavia for almost the last 5.5 yrs, I've known how to brake with a set of discs at front, & drums at rear.

Who says that the brakes of the Fortuner are a mess?
Let me ask them this question. How long have you driven that car to judge it - 5mins, 15mins, 30 mins, or 30 days?

@nilanjan, guderian, manuuj - you must have experienced the same..

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

On a different note, this is the issue today. In the 20-25 lac range, the Fortuner rides and brakes bad, the Endy rides and seats bad, the Pajero doesn't have enough grunt and is overpriced, the Santafe is a soft roader and overpriced, the Captiva has no rear ac vents and is a soft roader while the Yeti is an SUV.zip

Not one comprehensive SUV amongst so many models in the market.

I drove the Toyota Prado Diesel(Current gen) 10 days ago and i got the shock of my life. I did not expect this 60 Lakh rupee SUV to be so crude.

• It shares the same engine with Fortuner with minor tweak in power output but it remains harsh, Yes the noise insulation is better but still one can hear the rough engine note.
• Performance is nothing special, might be more powerful but the dull AT makes it at par compared to the Fortuner. The Torque convertor makes the lag free engine mover smartly at start but there was grunt to be felt, just a linear push.
• TLC Prado comes with Air Suspension but the Ride still is bumpy and a shame for a vehicle costing this much.
• The Steering(Not sure if it was EPS) was overservoed and felt entirely dead, it filtered road much better and was smoother than Fortuner but the enthusiast in me missed the Fortuner's steering(It feels more direct and weighs up nicely, only if it was a bit faster).
• The Interiors in Prado were generous with good quality all round plus lots of gadgetry including keyless function, split climate zone, a fancy display etc but again it did not feel as rich as the Germans.

Blindfold anyone and make him sit in this SUV, he will pass it off as something much cheaper. I could not find any good reason to prove this SUV a good value for money to myself, Yup it is reliable, It's Toyota but it's boring, Ugly Crude, Unexciting, Poor VFM.....the list goes on.

I sat in the Prius too, you would not like to hear about it.

Originally Posted by Monaro CV8

^^
Who says that the brakes of the Fortuner are a mess?
Let me ask them this question. How long have you driven that car to judge it - 5mins, 15mins, 30 mins, or 30 days?

I drive a Fortuner(Check the ownership thread). I feel the Braking could have been better, especially at triple digit speeds. The weird spongy inconsistent Brake pedal feel gets scary at times.

[swiftnfurious]

Was reading thru this thread and I found myself inclined to the below SUVs in the current market scenario.

I still have some basic doubts / requirements as to which will be the best pick and you all could help me understand these shortlisted vehicles better.

Vehicles listed:

Captiva
X-Trail
Fortuner

Requirements are below:

1. Mostly on-road, will not do any hard-core off-roading unless I end up buying a Fortuner [so the criteria is never wanting to do an off-road desperately].

2. A lot of highway driving to distances ranging 1300 kms up & down [Bangy - Kerala, Bangy - Goa etc]. Out of these, 600 kms [one way trip] will be done non-stop with 4 short breaks(usually)]

3. Of these roads, 70-80% are well laid tarmac [toll roads] and rest can be anything from average [bumpy] to utter crap [BIG pot holes].

4. I would want to maintain an average speed to 40-60 kmph [or best possible speeds] even over the worst patches making up for a decent average running time [I would not want to drive over the potholes in 1st & 2nd gears crawling thru them, craters should be an exception]

5. Most of the time, the car will have only two occupants and the middle row occupied at times [once in 2 months or so].

6. Even after driving thru the bad patches in decent speed, the ride should be comfortable for all.

7. The car should be able to handle even the roads in Leh-Ladakh as well without any fuss, guess this is where the 4x4 / AWD will ever be used if at all have to. I love to drive and want to take the car all over India by any kind of roads.

8. I would not want to use the car in a pampering way [like hatchbacks / sedans] but should be more of a rough usage on the roads [but still be safe & respecting other vehicles and not bullying around] and jumping over 1 or 2 un-expected speed breakers / pot holes on new / un-familiar routes.

9. The car should not have rattles even after this kind of rough usage on the roads [good built] in the long run [I will keep it for years / lacs of kms].

Just to put the requirements in a nut-shell,

a. Comfortable SUV for long drives [even on bad roads], for both front & middle rows.

b. Decent Off-roadability [If Leh-Ladakh roads or the likes can be called so]

c. Good build [No rattles even after fair rough usage / bashing]


Which of the 3 cars above listed will fit my bill?
=======================================

SUVs rejected:

1. CRV - No diesel option

2. Pajero - Outdated / lesser "spirited" [poor acceleration / power / top speed] car of the lot I guess

3. Endeavor - Don't like the looks / proportion.

4. X1 - Would not want an expensive German to be roughly used & its a pure on road cross over / SUV.

5. Santa Fe - Read that the car is old, not a great handler though specs are best of the lot and also the price is on the higher side

Of the rejected ones, If Santa Fe is anything close on the requirements to the rest 3 listed options, I don't mind bringing it up as the fourth option.

Disclaimer:: I know its a long list of requirements. The listed vehicles may not be the BEST in all categories, so I am expecting to zero-in on the jack of all trades. You may find it stupid of me to have some requirements laid out [like # 4 especially ], but please note that its a wish list. I have mentioned all those points to make you understand what I am looking for and what are the conditions I usually drive thru.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Vehicles listed:

Captiva
X-Trail
Fortuner


Just to put the requirements in a nut-shell,
a. Comfortable SUV for long drives [even on bad roads], for both front & middle rows.
b. Decent Off-roadability [If Leh-Ladakh roads or the likes can be called so]
c. Good build [No rattles even after fair rough usage / bashing]

Which of the 3 cars above listed will fit my bill?

Firstly, all the cars you referred do not have a middle row seat (e.g.; X-Trail).

If you want a true blue SUV, it’s Fortuner > Captiva > X-Trail. I mentioned Captiva in the middle, assuming that the face lifted Captiva will come through in a few months.

But, if I look at your overall requirements mentioned, you don’t need a true-blue SUV. All you need is something like the Skoda Yeti.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Firstly, all the cars you referred do not have a middle row seat (e.g.; X-Trail).

Middle row? Did you mean to say the "last row" which makes a car 7 seater? By the way I am not very particular about the last row. A 5 seater would do.

Originally Posted by vb-san

But, if I look at your overall requirements mentioned, you don’t need a true-blue SUV. All you need is something like the Skoda Yeti.

I do not even want to dream driving a Skoda ! So that's a complete no-no.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Just to put the requirements in a nut-shell,

a. Comfortable SUV for long drives [even on bad roads], for both front & middle rows.

b. Decent Off-roadability [If Leh-Ladakh roads or the likes can be called so]

c. Good build [No rattles even after fair rough usage / bashing]

All the above is taken care by Grand Vitara too. But only if you are willing to pay petrol prices. Do consider there is nearly 4L difference in Bangalore OTR price between GV and Fortuner. May be that can make up for the higher price you pay for petrol.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Middle row? Did you mean to say the "last row" which makes a car 7 seater? By the way I am not very particular about the last row. A 5 seater would do.

I was referring to the below two comments from your requirements

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

5. Most of the time, the car will have only two occupants and the middle row occupied at times [once in 2 months or so].

a. Comfortable SUV for long drives [even on bad roads], for both front & middle rows.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I do not even want to dream driving a Skoda ! So that's a complete no-no.

You should change your dreaming pattern
Jokes apart, there are not many options then. Fortuner looks like the best bet. Current Captiva is quite uninspiring, but not sure how the face lifted one will turn out to be.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by Samurai

All the above is taken care by Grand Vitara too. But only if you are willing to pay petrol prices. Do consider there is nearly 4L difference in Bangalore OTR price between GV and Fortuner. May be that can make up for the higher price you pay for petrol.

This car will be bought / registered in Kerala. So I guess that will bring down the price difference further. From the post looks like your vote is for Fortuner? And I would want only a diesel. Everytime I want to fill fuel, I dont want to feel the pinch. And as I will keep the car really long, the initial premium should not matter.

By the way the GV - Is it a CBU / CKD right now or is it manufactured in India ? Do we have any news of a Diesel GV anytime in the next 1 / 2 years ?