[Samurai]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

By the way the GV - Is it a CBU / CKD right now or is it manufactured in India ? Do we have any news of a Diesel GV anytime in the next 1 / 2 years ?

It has always been CBU, that explains the reliability of the vehicle. I do long distance drive every two weeks on bad roads to very bad roads. Now sudev is closing on 2L kms in 4 years and his GV still drives like new. But diesel factor usually turns off most potential buyers. And no, I don't think there is a Diesel GV in the horizon.

[dkaile]

I read an article about Toyota in Autocar this month, which makes so boring cars and still is an enigma.

Disclaimer : The views expressed are that of Shapur Kotwal and not mine, but somehow I tend to agree being a Qualis+Corolla owner. Do read and comment...

THE ENIGMA THAT'S TOYOTA

WE MAY GO on and on about cars like they are living, breathing objects of desire, and to us they are.
But there are a huge number of 'everyday' folks for whom the car is mere transport and not motoring.
Asking "what's your car like to drive?" often result in a quizzical expression and bewilderment.
To them, cars are just white goods, beasts of burden, or objects of utility.
What would you say if we asked you what your fridge was 'like? "Cold" would be one answer and "it's good, it works" another.
Apart from that, you'd be lost for words. Just like these everyday non-car-loving folks would be if we asked about their cars.

The conspiracy theory goes that super-smart Toyota knows this, and while the rest of the industry wastes time chasing those of us who love cars,
Toyota spends its time delivering simple, efficient and super-reliable cars, sort of the perfect white goods on wheels.
This is especially true during the early years when the brand's products and reputation are not really well known.

Now let's assume people who like cars and those who don't can be split clean down the middle.
Sure, the reality is more like 60:40, but let's keep things simple. Now assuming the vast majority of Toyota owners, who can't express
themselves well about their cars, say "it's good and it works" when asked what their Toyota is like.
Can you imagine the consistent and positive vibe you'd get from just that? And once you know that brand of fridge works, well would you risk brand B
and curdled milk? No. So, more and more folks buy Toyota as the word spreads. And then, before car lovers like us can get fully stuck in,
come better and better cars, some of them not as heavily tried and tested, but hey Toyota's reputation is already cemented.
And then some of these cars even make us go wow.

Remember the Quails, Toyota's first car in India? That abominable utility vehicle that looked like a breadbox on wheels which was so plain
and unremarkable. Editor Hormazd and 1 refused to believe it was Toyota's first product in India, despite stumbling upon it,
recognising it as a Toyota and seeing testing agency ARAI's stickers all over the car. This just couldn't be it, we thought,
missing the scoop of the decade as we drove past, assuming it to be a testing "mule". But what a car it was.
Beautifully engineered to deliver just the minimum required, it was surprisingly nice to drive and turned out to be as indestructible as nuclear waste.
Cars with even 300,000 or 400,000km on the dock are normal, and owners just swear by them. And that has cemented Toyota's reputation.
Then came the much more appealing and just as well-engineered Innova, which immediately was a big success, and the even more desirable Fortuner.
And we all know how well that has sold despite the price.

So it was the Qualis I thought of when I first drove Toyota's new Liva, a simple, well engineered and minimalist no-frills car.
Built of tried and trusted mechanicals that will run faultlessly forever and ever, better and more appealing hatchbacks from Toyota will come further down the line and further up the price band. But for now, the Liva and the Etios have their magic to work.

That is the Toyota way

.

[Monaro CV8]

A very good read that one.
I must add here that the total utilitarian approach by Toyota towards their cars makes them churn out solid work horses from the factory.

IMO this is the culture that sets them apart from the other Japanese car makers.

[Monaro CV8]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Vehicles listed:

Captiva
X-Trail
Fortuner

Requirements are below:

1. Mostly on-road, will not do any hard-core off-roading unless I end up buying a Fortuner [so the criteria is never wanting to do an off-road desperately].

2. A lot of highway driving to distances ranging 1300 kms up & down [Bangy - Kerala, Bangy - Goa etc]. Out of these, 600 kms [one way trip] will be done non-stop with 4 short breaks(usually)]

3. Of these roads, 70-80% are well laid tarmac [toll roads] and rest can be anything from average [bumpy] to utter crap [BIG pot holes].

4. I would want to maintain an average speed to 40-60 kmph [or best possible speeds] even over the worst patches making up for a decent average running time [I would not want to drive over the potholes in 1st & 2nd gears crawling thru them, craters should be an exception]

5. Most of the time, the car will have only two occupants and the middle row occupied at times [once in 2 months or so].

6. Even after driving thru the bad patches in decent speed, the ride should be comfortable for all.

7. The car should be able to handle even the roads in Leh-Ladakh as well without any fuss, guess this is where the 4x4 / AWD will ever be used if at all have to. I love to drive and want to take the car all over India by any kind of roads.

8. I would not want to use the car in a pampering way [like hatchbacks / sedans] but should be more of a rough usage on the roads [but still be safe & respecting other vehicles and not bullying around] and jumping over 1 or 2 un-expected speed breakers / pot holes on new / un-familiar routes.

9. The car should not have rattles even after this kind of rough usage on the roads [good built] in the long run [I will keep it for years / lacs of kms].


Which of the 3 cars above listed will fit my bill?
=======================================

If you are ready to let go of a few of your requirements, then IMO, the car best suited for you can be the Captiva.

Plus, there's a new look - new engine Captiva around the corner.

The reasons this will fit your bill, is that the Captiva being a soft roader, and you would be doing most of your driving on Highways.
You don't need a tru-blue SUV (like the T-Fort).
The only thing it wont be able to do is the Leh-Ladakh drive and hard core off road.

Of course, if budget is not the criteria for you, then the X Trail would be the best bet of the lot.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by Monaro CV8

If you are ready to let go of a few of your requirements, then IMO, the car best suited for you can be the Captiva.

So what are those requirements that need to be overlooked for Captiva? Also does the Captiva have a better comfort front & middle row than a Fortuner?

Originally Posted by Monaro CV8

The only thing it wont be able to do is the Leh-Ladakh drive and hard core off road.

Does Leh-Ladakh trip need a proper SUV? As I mentioned in my post, hard-core offroading is not at all a criterion for me.

Originally Posted by Monaro CV8

Of course, if budget is not the criteria for you, then the X Trail would be the best bet of the lot.

Can the X-trail do the Leh-Ladakh kind of roads without much trouble? I know the road mannerisms are really good.

Out of the cars mentioned, which can handle a lot of abuse? I am worried about this part more and would not want my car to start rattling after some rough usage.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Out of the cars mentioned, which can handle a lot of abuse? I am worried about this part more and would not want my car to start rattling after some rough usage.

On this part, I guess the Fortuner is the best fit. Or maybe the Ford Endeavour is another option.

[mdsaab]

abuse wise it will be quite a stiff competition between the T-Fort and the Endy.
The difference lies in the ride quality. The T-Fort is ahead in this department.
The Endy really is a bumpy ride, and the seating at the rear is not as comfortable either.
If you plan to stick to good roads most of the time, then the Captiva is a great choice.

[Monaro CV8]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

So what are those requirements that need to be overlooked for Captiva? Also does the Captiva have a better comfort front & middle row than a Fortuner?

Well, for starters you wont get an AWD in a captiva (except the "extreme" model).
And the solid built of a Fortuner.
But as you said your journeys mostly shall be on the highways, then better off with a soft roader than a Hard Core SUV.
For e.g. the T-Fort's ride may not be very smooth (owing to the suspension setup being a tad hard). I for one claim so, coz I own one

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Does Leh-Ladakh trip need a proper SUV? As I mentioned in my post, hard-core offroading is not at all a criterion for me.

I dont think the Captiva 2WD will let you do that.
But yes the 4WD Auto Captiva will certainly can be a option.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Can the X-trail do the Leh-Ladakh kind of roads without much trouble? I know the road mannerisms are really good.

Yes Sir! It certainly can. I have test driven this car on a dirt track (1/2 feet of slush & mud) and it just sailed through. The gear box is very well tuned with the powerful engine.
But IMO, this car is way too overpriced in India (being a CBU).

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Out of the cars mentioned, which can handle a lot of abuse? I am worried about this part more and would not want my car to start rattling after some rough usage.

The easiest question of them all.
The answer is the Toyota Fortuner! And to support my advocacy I may quote a few threads on this forum that are very well maintained by our fellow Team BHP T-Fort owners like Nilanjan Ray & Manuuj.

Happy SUV Hunting!

[mdsaab]

Let me add another thread to the list.
Guderian's fabulous thread on the Admiral.
A very detailed as well as fun read on owning and experiencing the T-Fort firsthand.

[avneeshj]

Hi guys,

My family and I are looking to buy a new SUV to add to our existing cars. This SUV would be used majority of the times on the highway. The reason for a SUV over sedan is the added utility that a SUV brings and that sometimes we do have to go to places with terrible roads.

I have mentioned the 3 options that I have narrowed down in the title thread and here my views on them.

Fortuner:
+Toyota reliability. Our Camry has served us well for 2 lac + kms.
+ Cheap to own and maintain
-Toyota brand
-Safety features
-Too common
-Interiors

Santa Fe:
+Looks nice
+Seems to be cheap and reliable from what I have read so far.
+Safety kit better than Fortuner
-Hyundai brand

Freelander 2:
+ Brand and exclusivity
+ Looks
-Might be too expensive to run and maintain
-Don't know how reliable it is


I am in a fix regarding these 3 cars and would appreciate some advice as to which would be the best choice amongst the 3.

[Akshay1234]

The ride of the Fortuner is the most unsettled out of the lot while the Freelanders ride is the best.

All 3 are overpriced but I would say go for the Freelander only for the snob value since it does not justify the price otherwise.

Feature wise the Sante Fe and the Freelander have the Fortuner beat (inspite of the facelift adding a few features).

My choice would be the Sante Fe A/T. Its got an extremely power engine, a 6 speed autobox, 4 wheel drive, and many other features. Its reliability would not be questioned and its ride is reasonably good.

The only area where the Fortuner wins is road presence.

[Aroy]

The Freelander is neither here nor there, especially at that price. The current Land Rover engines do not have a very good reputation. They are neither as trouble free as the Japanese nor as high tech as the Germans. So I would give it a miss.

Some how the Hyundai brand SUV have not clicked in India, so it is an iffy purchase. You never know when they discontinue it due to low offtake. It is a CBU after all.

On the other hand though the Fortuner ride is a bit harsh, it is an extremely rugged machine and should give trouble free service for long. So I would pick the Fortuner any day.

If you do not want to belt down the highways and do not mind the dated looks, the Pajero has excellent ride and its off/bad road characteristics are the best in its class. It just glides over broken roads, where the Fortuner would give you a back ache.

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by avneeshj

Our Camry has served us well for 2 lac + kms.

You said it man. Santa Fe is overpriced with unproven reliability. Freelander has exclusivity and is very well built but highly overpriced at that. Ride of the Pajero is great in this shootout but it has an underpowered engine and is too 80ish in its looks. So the complete package comes ONLY with the Fortuner in your case, which has a perfect blend of power, reliability, resale, economy and now luxury.

Go for it with your eyes closed and enjoy another bout of trouble free ride like your Camry.

[avneeshj]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

The ride of the Fortuner is the most unsettled out of the lot while the Freelanders ride is the best.

All 3 are overpriced but I would say go for the Freelander only for the snob value since it does not justify the price otherwise.

Feature wise the Sante Fe and the Freelander have the Fortuner beat (inspite of the facelift adding a few features).

My choice would be the Sante Fe A/T. Its got an extremely power engine, a 6 speed autobox, 4 wheel drive, and many other features. Its reliability would not be questioned and its ride is reasonably good.

The only area where the Fortuner wins is road presence.

I felt the ride of the Fortuner wasn't that great when I spent a few days with one last year. Has anything changed in that regard in this new version?

Santa Fe TD is scheduled for today evening. Lets see how that turns out to be.

Originally Posted by Aroy

The Freelander is neither here nor there, especially at that price. The current Land Rover engines do not have a very good reputation. They are neither as trouble free as the Japanese nor as high tech as the Germans. So I would give it a miss.

Some how the Hyundai brand SUV have not clicked in India, so it is an iffy purchase. You never know when they discontinue it due to low offtake. It is a CBU after all.

On the other hand though the Fortuner ride is a bit harsh, it is an extremely rugged machine and should give trouble free service for long. So I would pick the Fortuner any day.

If you do not want to belt down the highways and do not mind the dated looks, the Pajero has excellent ride and its off/bad road characteristics are the best in its class. It just glides over broken roads, where the Fortuner would give you a back ache.

If the new Pajero was launched already it'd probably make a very strong case for itself but I just can't have the current Pajero the way it looks.

Originally Posted by dkaile

You said it man. Santa Fe is overpriced with unproven reliability. Freelander has exclusivity and is very well built but highly overpriced at that. Ride of the Pajero is great in this shootout but it has an underpowered engine and is too 80ish in its looks. So the complete package comes ONLY with the Fortuner in your case, which has a perfect blend of power, reliability, resale, economy and now luxury.

Go for it with your eyes closed and enjoy another bout of trouble free ride like your Camry.

The biggest factor making me lean the Toyota way is the reliability. My cars do a lot of kms and I have a feeling the Toyota will take it the best.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by avneeshj

If the new Pajero was launched already it'd probably make a very strong case for itself but I just can't have the current Pajero the way it looks.

The biggest factor making me lean the Toyota way is the reliability. My cars do a lot of kms and I have a feeling the Toyota will take it the best.

The new Pajero is the "Montero". It has great body, good engine but horrible price, as it is a CBU. Personally I prefer the looks and handling of the Pajero sold here to modern looking SUV. Modern diesels are great for high speed highway travel, but are not that great at low speed high torque situations.

All said and done, Toyota Fortuner is the best option for you, as you want it primarily for highway and not off roads.