CNG in automatic transmission

Tarun · 18th May 2011, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit1234singla

I am not able to see the reason how CNG conversion would differ between a manual and auto. Technically there should not be any difference since between manual vs auto, engine air/ fuel intake, brakes etc are same, no? Manual vs auto difference comes into picture when the power needs to be transferred from crankshaft to wheels but then at that point onwards, petrol vs cng should not matter. Will like to hear more from fellow members.

Tarun - I suggest you also take another opinion from specialized CNG fitters. I think they would do a much better job than HASS due to their specialization on this. Heck, HASS's are sometimes not able to fix issues with normal petrols so I would definitely go to a reputed, reliable CNG kit specialist. Anyways, warranty (if any left) will be void with CNG, so no point spending time with HASS.

I also have similar view, but the recommendations are more for sequential without any reasoning for AT. Deep Hyundai Wazirpur workshop is quite popular for CNG fitment and opinions. Spoke to ECOGAS and they are also fine with non-sequential kits and gave lots of examples.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashthedivx

It will definately work flawlessly, but it would be recommended with sequential kit only. As non-sequential kits would not be able to cope up with car's power and AT transmission.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Hi,
Engine power/ torque affected adversely. So shift points might need changing, esp for light loads.

Care to explain....?

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnjojo08

Sequential kit has seperate ECU.. That will take care of everything.. I am using STAG 200 kit in my ford ikon 1.6 which is running absolutly trouble free for last 7 months. Done around 10k with this kit. Check out the following link for more information ..
AC Spó

How did you source the kit? From the site no distributor network in India, and spoke to couple of dealers, none has a clue to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maglev

I have seen an SX4 (Auto) at Apra Motors MASS, with CNG retrofitted from an independent installer, The owner was happy but he was using the more expensive Best Prins kit. Which come with its on ECU.
BEST PRINS EcoTech (P) Ltd.

The phones are not working, no dealership mentioned in the forum.
Puts a questionmark on reliability and creates hesitancy on further approach.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vigsom

I have seen at least 5ATs(OHC,Corollas and an Accord) on simple closed loop CNG kits.

The only brake interlock that I see in an auto(which is not there in a manual) is that the brake needs to be pressed before you can shift from P to any other position ; and this interlock has nothing to do with the fuel used.

What this action negates?

sgiitk · 18th May 2011, 16:40

My own view will be that CNG + AT make a good pair, except for the power loss in the first place. I may add I had a chap who bought my Zen (non-FI) AT and then converted it to CNG and by all accounts is quite happy with it.

amit1234singla · 18th May 2011, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

I also have similar view, but the recommendations are more for sequential without any reasoning for AT.

That's because probably the sequential CNG kits are in general better that than non-sequential one's. But, I don't see a reason why it would be any different between AT or a manual car.

johnjojo08 · 18th May 2011, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

How did you source the kit? From the site no distributor network in India, and spoke to couple of dealers, none has a clue to it.

Here in Cochin(Kerala) it is avilable with one dealer. You can check out other sequential kits like BRC that is coming as OEM kit for Lancer cedia and Spark LPG. I have found this link while googling out..

http://www.batramotor.com/contact_us_3.html

Check with them which kit they are using.

Sutripta · 18th May 2011, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

Care to explain....?

A lot of factors go into determining the shift points in an auto. One of the most important is the torque characteristic of the engine. That is going to change with CNG.

Regards
Sutripta

maglev · 18th May 2011, 23:59

A friend of mine was planning to get his Civic retrofitted with CNG, I guided him to the same installer who had CNG'ed my Ritz a year or so ago. So when I called Sunil, I spoke to him about the A/T + CNG combination as well.
As per him most A/T cars have RTO approved kits and are fully legal as well as compatible.

@ Tarun: since you stay in New Delhi why dont you give this guy a call.

Details of the installer:

Mr. Sunil Dutt, Owner,
Tara Dutt Automobiles
301/5, Sukhdev Market, Opposite Defence Colony,
Kotla Mubarakpur, New Delhi, Delhi 110003, India.

+911124619814‎
+911124634392
+919891311148

The details of the CNG installation in my Ritz are here:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...onversion.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutripta

A lot of factors go into determining the shift points in an auto. One of the most important is the torque characteristic of the engine. That is going to change with CNG.

Regards
Sutripta

I've understood what you meant by torque characteristics, in layman terms this could be defined as dealing with a different part of the rev band to extract the most amount of usable power when compared to petrol.

sgiitk · 19th May 2011, 10:09

I have a feeling that 95% of the CNG cars are used almost totally in town, so power is not an issue.

swapnil.rahate · 4th June 2011, 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by maglev

A friend of mine was planning to get his Civic retrofitted with CNG, I guided him to the same installer who had CNG'ed my Ritz a year or so ago. So when I called Sunil, I spoke to him about the A/T + CNG combination as well.
As per him most A/T cars have RTO approved kits and are fully legal as well as compatible.

@ Tarun: since you stay in New Delhi why dont you give this guy a call.

Details of the installer:

Mr. Sunil Dutt, Owner,
Tara Dutt Automobiles
301/5, Sukhdev Market, Opposite Defence Colony,
Kotla Mubarakpur, New Delhi, Delhi 110003, India.

+911124619814‎
+911124634392
+919891311148

The details of the CNG installation in my Ritz are here:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...onversion.html

I've understood what you meant by torque characteristics, in layman terms this could be defined as dealing with a different part of the rev band to extract the most amount of usable power when compared to petrol.

Did you friend convert his car to CNG?

maglev · 11th June 2011, 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by swapnil.rahate

Did you friend convert his car to CNG?

Nope, not as of yet. He's still not decided whether to sell the civic or get it CNG'd.

ahmed26 · 16th June 2011, 01:02

Is this available?
Do the maruti service centers provide installation of the CNG kit that is found in the CNG version of SX4?
Also, is this available for SX4 AT?

Mr.Boss · 16th June 2011, 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahmed26

Is this available?
Do the maruti service centers provide installation of the CNG kit that is found in the CNG version of SX4?
Also, is this available for SX4 AT?

AFAIK MASS do not do this. They can support a CNG variant in terms of spares & service, but could not retro-fit a new kit on a non-CNG variant as this involves RTO formalities.

No idea on CNG in a AT since I haven't driven a CNG vehicle yet, but LPG in AT is really pathetic. I have driven a Santro AT with LPG, I would say that was the worst driving experience I ever had.

rudder · 16th June 2011, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahmed26

Is this available?
Do the maruti service centers provide installation of the CNG kit that is found in the CNG version of SX4?
Also, is this available for SX4 AT?

I don't think so. I was in the same dilemma last year and visited Pasco in Gurgaon. I wanted a CNG kit on my 2007 SX4 Zxi. The CNG Sx4 had been launched by then. Pasco people refused and said they can't install a CNG kit.

tanwaramit · 17th July 2011, 10:03

I was in discussions to purchase an OHC, 2002 model, AT with 90k on the odo. This was with CNG installed.

Couldn't get to test drive the car, however, the owner didn't had any problems with CNG, so I guess CNG should work fine with AT cars.

Also, I am looking for AT vehicle and if petrol then will need CNG else will go for Diesel.

Will post my updates.

vigsom · 17th July 2011, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudder

I wanted a CNG kit on my 2007 SX4 Zxi. The CNG Sx4 had been launched by then. Pasco people refused and said they can't install a CNG kit.

You're right ; with the launch of Maruti CNG models, Maruti dealers don't do retro-fitment of CNG kits ; at least here.

You can get the job done at a good independent garage,though.

HIGHNOON · 24th July 2011, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashthedivx

It will definately work flawlessly, but it would be recommended with sequential kit only. As non-sequential kits would not be able to cope up with car's power and AT transmission.

Could you please elaborate ? ( the highlighted ? )
As far as i know non sequential kits if tuned properly work very well on a MPI car. The sequential works better for sure but does it mean a non SI could have trouble on AT cng ?
Working efficiently on the gaseous fuel with pure performance reduced as compared to petrol could be acceptable to some than putting more and more money to have better performance on a leaner fuel and complicated maintenance later on, when your primary goal ( while putting cng ) is to save fuel money.
But if it doesnt work at all on AT , then its another matter.
I mean would the torque fall dangerously low on AT ?

18th May 2011, 16:40	#17
sgiitk BANNED Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,969 Thanked: 4,788 Times	Re: CNG in automatic transmission My own view will be that CNG + AT make a good pair, except for the power loss in the first place. I may add I had a chap who bought my Zen (non-FI) AT and then converted it to CNG and by all accounts is quite happy with it.
	(1) Thanks

19th May 2011, 10:09	#22
sgiitk BANNED Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,969 Thanked: 4,788 Times	Re: CNG in automatic transmission I have a feeling that 95% of the CNG cars are used almost totally in town, so power is not an issue.
	() Thanks

16th June 2011, 01:02	#25
ahmed26 BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Calicut Posts: 99 Thanked: 39 Times	CNG kit for SX4 Automatic from dealers? Is this available? Do the maruti service centers provide installation of the CNG kit that is found in the CNG version of SX4? Also, is this available for SX4 AT?
	() Thanks

17th July 2011, 10:03	#28
tanwaramit Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Dilwalon ki Dilli Posts: 1,930 Thanked: 497 Times	Re: CNG in automatic transmission I was in discussions to purchase an OHC, 2002 model, AT with 90k on the odo. This was with CNG installed. Couldn't get to test drive the car, however, the owner didn't had any problems with CNG, so I guess CNG should work fine with AT cars. Also, I am looking for AT vehicle and if petrol then will need CNG else will go for Diesel. Will post my updates.
	() Thanks