[basky]

Originally Posted by ThinkBig

I don't know whether you are aware, but majority of car dealerships use the 3M system on the PDI and also detailing needs of the customers. I am not too happy with the kind of service they churn out. What is the difference in this centre, i.e. besides the looks. The product range is same. No new technology.

Let me ask other bhpians, how happy are they with the lasting property (besides the cosmetic shine) of the 3M finish.

Detailing is just that - paying lots and lots of attention to detail. What happens at 99% of places is a quick 30 min rub down with a polish and a quick coat of wax. They do not have the training, time for detailing or the motivation to do a good job. Customers too look for a quicky - which is what decides the level of attention to detail.

Let me assure you that a good detail wash which takes about 8 man hours will give a surface so bright and clean in appearance that you will mistake it for a finished job. A complete detailing job will take 2 days including time taken for applied coatings to air dry before wiping off.

Surprised? Yes you can opt for the 3 hour 'polishing' job but don't call it detailing. You will find that products used are less important than the attention to detail given. A good product range give you more leeway to choose the best option for the situation

[ThinkBig]

Originally Posted by basky

Detailing is just that - paying lots and lots of attention to detail. What happens at 99% of places is a quick 30 min rub down with a polish and a quick coat of wax. They do not have the training, time for detailing or the motivation to do a good job. Customers too look for a quicky - which is what decides the level of attention to detail.

Basky, you are completely right. A quicky or a long session does make a difference. A dedicated shop would make a difference rather than an all-in-one. But the point I was making is at the end of the day, whether you pay Rs.3,500 or much more you want your monies worth. If its just shine, you can achieve it at much lower cost. If you want quality, products and chemistry play a very important part. In Singapore a dedicated detailing centre does fantastic work. I saw it personally, but when I asked the owner of the centre how often did his customers come. He said EVERY WEEK. In Bangkok, they sell boutique waxes, which are around $200+ and the customers come every month for a wash and wax. They even keep the waxes which they buy, labelled and stored at the centre. Their results cannot be debated. Exceptional. The only debate is the affordability of the process, i.e. time and money.

As regards to the passion, I think anyone getting into a business has to have passion. That will drive the business forward. My only contention is 3M is a company selling the same range of products to the detailing centre or the dealerships. The applicators are only different. One is in production and the other is more dedicated to detail. If the tools, products are same, how will the longevity vary?

Lastly, real professionals use a 6 step (polishing) process for detailing with 4 different tools. 3M or many others just use max 2 polishing machines and finish the process in 3 max 4 steps. It is not just about using a compound to remove scratches, a polishing compound and finally a glaze. It is to obtain a much higher level of finish and then sealing the work done (which hrs/days have been spent) with a more resilient product which can counter the day to day environmental elements as well as retain the sheen for a much longer period of time. Just for your information there are finishes sealed and glossy which are being retained for years (3-5 and more). With no special after care, besides washing and shampooing occasionally.

[basky]

Originally Posted by ThinkBig

As regards to the passion, I think anyone getting into a business has to have passion.

How true.

Originally Posted by ThinkBig

If the tools, products are same, how will the longevity vary?

Surface preparation is the key. Even the best products dont work well if the basic surface preparation is shoddy.

Originally Posted by ThinkBig

real professionals use a 6 step (polishing) process for detailing with 4 different tools. 3M or many others just use max 2 polishing machines and finish the process in 3 max 4 steps.

The number of stages of paint correction depends on the condition of the painted surface. The product options at each step too can be intimidating. Ultimately, it the experience, comfort level with the products and cost which makes a difference in the final choice.

Originally Posted by ThinkBig

Just for your information there are finishes sealed and glossy which are being retained for years (3-5 and more). With no special after care, besides washing and shampooing occasionally.

Our cars have a tough struggle with daytime temperature being high, diesel particulate, tar splatter, a wide variety of bird droppings (bombs actually) and terrible wash standards. It is a wonder that any paint remains at all with this daily assault. With exception of the high mid & premium cars, the original paintwork is of just barely sufficient thickness and durability.
Even with the best products, it will be a tall order for any finish to survive all this with daily use.

Originally Posted by ThinkBig

In Bangkok, they sell boutique waxes, which are around $200+ and the customers come every month for a wash and wax.

If interested in boutique waxes, they have a range at Pete's - used but mostly admired in the glass display stand.
Cant say about Bangkok but Singapore has a very low dust quotient. Also, their cars dont have to share space with everything from pedestrians on Brownian motion (school physics: random movement of particles),cycles on a tangent, bullock carts and cows on the loose!

@ThinkBig - That was a very good post. My comments were just my thoughts as I read it.

[ThinkBig]

Originally Posted by basky

How true.


Surface preparation is the key. Even the best products dont work well if the basic surface preparation is shoddy.


The number of stages of paint correction depends on the condition of the painted surface. The product options at each step too can be intimidating. Ultimately, it the experience, comfort level with the products and cost which makes a difference in the final choice.


Our cars have a tough struggle with daytime temperature being high, diesel particulate, tar splatter, a wide variety of bird droppings (bombs actually) and terrible wash standards. It is a wonder that any paint remains at all with this daily assault. With exception of the high mid & premium cars, the original paintwork is of just barely sufficient thickness and durability.
Even with the best products, it will be a tall order for any finish to survive all this with daily use.


If interested in boutique waxes, they have a range at Pete's - used but mostly admired in the glass display stand.
Cant say about Bangkok but Singapore has a very low dust quotient. Also, their cars dont have to share space with everything from pedestrians on Brownian motion (school physics: random movement of particles),cycles on a tangent, bullock carts and cows on the loose!

@ThinkBig - That was a very good post. My comments were just my thoughts as I read it.

Basky,
Thank you but it is a very interesting discussion.

I agree with you, depending on the condition of the car the processes are determined. When I mentioned 6 stages of cut and buff with equipment and products that is the maximum a car could go through. Usually the science behind the cutting is going from 5-8 micron cut to about 1 micron cut for a mirror finish. The products and pads determine this. Likewise to resist environmental elements (like in India), the coating thickness, with its resistive properties to these elements. These vary between .1 micron to about .5 microns. Newer technologies are available with thicker coatings, but not practical as they are sprayed on in paint booths. The common knowledge is inorganic products are most resistive. Even acids do not etch into them. SiO2 is basically glass. Have you ever even found a bird dropping leave a mark on your windshield? The answer is NO. There are other elements where products like Ceramic, Titanium etc are now being applied by various different methods. Sol-gel process is the most popular.

In short, once the finish is protected, it is of prime importance to seal the surface to give the maximum protection. This science is too advanced for it to be a mass applied process.

Personally, and this is truly my opinion, 3M is too big a company to totally dedicate this as a specialized service. Their products are mass produced. For which they need customers coming more often for their needs rather than long term solutions.

Hope you understand my school of thought.

[basky]

Originally Posted by ThinkBig

When I mentioned 6 stages of cut and buff with equipment and products that is the maximum a car could go through. Usually the science behind the cutting is going from 5-8 micron cut to about 1 micron cut for a mirror finish.

Ideally yes. Bringing the ridges to the level of the troughs of the orange peel will determine the actual amount to be removed to get mirror sheen. The problem is that because of cost consciousness, the original application of paint is also suspect in India for the medium to lower level cars. As a friend, a US trained detailer jokingly said that using a paint thickness gauge in India would be an invitation for a heart attack.

Originally Posted by ThinkBig

Likewise to resist environmental elements (like in India), the coating thickness, with its resistive properties to these elements. These vary between .1 micron to about .5 microns. Newer technologies are available with thicker coatings, but not practical as they are sprayed on in paint booths. The common knowledge is inorganic products are most resistive. Even acids do not etch into them. SiO2 is basically glass. Have you ever even found a bird dropping leave a mark on your windshield? The answer is NO. There are other elements where products like Ceramic, Titanium etc are now being applied by various different methods. Sol-gel process is the most popular. In short, once the finish is protected, it is of prime importance to seal the surface to give the maximum protection. This science is too advanced for it to be a mass applied process.

Technically very correct. When you detail cars, you will, on close examination, see many micro and macro stone chip damage on the paint and windshield. Glass will not hold up to flying missiles of stone aggregate. This is true even for the premium cars – they tend to go faster and get hit at a higher velocity too. Essentially this is a problem of our roads built with weak bitumen.

Ceramic & Titanium are currently too expensive for general use. Sol-gel process is very promising but will take time to be in widespread use. Additional cost being the main factor.

You should see the type of goo-muck birds are capable of generating. Some of them are strong multi-coloured resins which require very drastic action to get rid of.

Originally Posted by ThinkBig

Personally, and this is truly my opinion, 3M is too big a company to totally dedicate this as a specialized service. Their products are mass produced. For which they need customers coming more often for their needs rather than long term solutions.

3M is into many niche markets because they encourage creativity within their organisation. They have thousands of innovative niche products and not all are seen in India. Products are very good but Third party applicators spoil the show.

Originally Posted by ThinkBig

Hope you understand my school of thought.

In perfect tune, Buddy.

[fine69]

I recently got Mother's Glass Cleaner and used it but not sure if it did the job. The sole reason for getting a glass cleaner was to get rid of the rainbow-colored water surface that would form over the front windshield once I would wipe it with car shampoo. It looked like multi-colored diesel that one sees once its mixed in water.

So I used it but the multi-colored water surface would still form. So I wanted to check if at all anybody's used Mothers Glass Cleaner and was satisfied with it. I mean the glass cleaner didn't do much, the result was same as it was after using the car shampoo.

Originally Posted by maverhick

I bought a couple of products from auto-mall thru ebay and had a terrible experience dealing with them.

Originally Posted by SAS

Surprising. I have had good experiences till now. Automall definitely is slow in shipping, but I doubt they would ship you used products. I purchased 3 things from them till now: 2 Mothers wash and wax shampoo and 1 wheel cleaner. Their shipping is slow but the products were new.

I bought the Mother's glass cleaner from auto-mall only (thru ebay) and the experience was horrible, least to say. I ordered the glass cleaner on 9 Sep'11 and got it on 26 Sep'11 and I wouldn't have got it at all (I believe) if it wasn't for the umpteen emails I sent them (to which there was absolutely no reply) and I had to then contact one of the guys there over phone (which I got from their website) and they finally promised to ship it.

However, not sure if Mother's glass cleaner is supposed to have a seal or not because mine didn't and because of the result I got I'm not sure if the product is at all genuine.

[GT500]

Originally Posted by fine69

I recently got Mother's Glass Cleaner and used it but not sure if it did the job. The sole reason for getting a glass cleaner was to get rid of the rainbow-colored water surface that would form over the front windshield once I would wipe it with car shampoo. It looked like multi-colored diesel that one sees once its mixed in water.

So I used it but the multi-colored water surface would still form. So I wanted to check if at all anybody's used Mothers Glass Cleaner and was satisfied with it. I mean the glass cleaner didn't do much, the result was same as it was after using the car shampoo.


However, not sure if Mother's glass cleaner is supposed to have a seal or not because mine didn't and because of the result I got I'm not sure if the product is at all genuine.

I dont know if this would be helpful in your case or not but I had some stuff(diesel particulate as per experts over here) on my windshield that would not go away even after applying shampoo,every brands' glass cleaner,vigourous cleaning in all forms(newspaper et all). It resulted in wiper clatter and it was pretty darn frustrating.



Solution:- claying.Try it! It does work,atleast in my case it did, I do have half a bar with me left .Surface feels super smooth after claying it.



And yeah, automall's shipping is pretty messed up, umpteen calls, countless mails and reminders ,that's my experience. No seal on my Mothers product too.

Cheers

GT

[Dr.Gagan]

I agree with GT500 , I did clay my windscreen today followed by use of glass cleaner and application of turtle clearvue rain repellant result windshield as good and clear as new. Clay is also useful for headlights also.

[maverhick]

Originally Posted by fine69

I bought the Mother's glass cleaner from auto-mall only (thru ebay) and the experience was horrible, least to say. I ordered the glass cleaner on 9 Sep'11 and got it on 26 Sep'11 and I wouldn't have got it at all (I believe) if it wasn't for the umpteen emails I sent them (to which there was absolutely no reply) and I had to then contact one of the guys there over phone (which I got from their website) and they finally promised to ship it.

After I opened an ebay resolution ticket against auto-mall, on ebay he mentioned he would refund me and also mentioned that the stuff gets dispatched from his godown so he has no control over it. Now, neither have I seen the refund happen, nor do I buy the godown story. Just adding it to the thread as a FYI

[fine69]

Are Eagle one products better when compared to Mother's, anyone's used them both?

I'm particularly interested in a tyre cleaning product that produces foams, cleans dirty tyres and leaves a nice black looking rubber afterwards. Don't want to spend separately on a tyre shiner so looking for something that does this dual kind of job.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by fine69

Are Eagle one products better when compared to Mother's, anyone's used them both?

I'm particularly interested in a tyre cleaning product that produces foams, cleans dirty tyres and leaves a nice black looking rubber afterwards. Don't want to spend separately on a tyre shiner so looking for something that does this dual kind of job.

I have been recommended the Eagle One A-Z Wheel and Tire cleaner by experts. I am still to use it but I will be placing the order soon. It is available online at Autofresh India's First and Largest online Car Care Product Store

[fine69]

Originally Posted by adimicra

I have been recommended the Eagle One A-Z Wheel and Tire cleaner by experts. I am still to use it but I will be placing the order soon. It is available online at Autofresh India's First and Largest online Car Care Product Store

Thanks, I'm a little skeptic about using my card on such websites though. Have bhpians here ordered through this website? Rates look ok to me, just hope the products are genuine too. Do they sell via ebay also?

[ankurvirmani19]

The rear seats of my car have got pepsi / oil stains. How can I get it cleaned as they are the original ones, did't get them covered?

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by fine69

Thanks, I'm a little skeptic about using my card on such websites though. Have bhpians here ordered through this website? Rates look ok to me, just hope the products are genuine too. Do they sell via ebay also?

I have received positive feedback from some BHPians about this site.
I am gonna order some stuff from them this week. If you wanna wait for some time, I can share my feedback about them.

From my experience, Sanjay from bringingbest.com is very good and auto-mall.com sucks big time.

[Mustang.101]

I recently came from a 6000 kms roadtrip and the paint of car has bug splatter stains on it. Its like a thin translucent coat of insect fluid. I must have killed a lot of bugs . How does one get rid of this dried bug splatter?