Mercedes E class woes

Akki_5 · 23rd October 2011, 14:46

Background:
Car: E280 CDI (W211) Elegance - Feb 2007 model.
Mileage: approx. 34000 kms

This car is amazing to drive but has had it's own share of problems, some have been potentially fatal. Currently, as i type, the car has been with AutoHangar Mumbai since about 10 days gathering dust. When i was driving back from Andheri about two weeks ago, there was some vibration and friction sound (only when i brake) from the rear left tire. Thinking it could be something with brakes, i pulled to the side and tried to toggle thru the warning display to check if anything related to brakes had been thrown up. Nothing. Nothing at all.

I drove back home slowly, hoping it was nothing major. Called AH and they sent the 24 hour guy to check it. He said that the brake pads had worn out and eaten into the disc brakes (!). I tried to reason that the car has only run 34000 kms and there is no brake warning also. He said, what he said was correct and he didn't know anything apart from that. Well, after substantial reasoning, he told me that brake pad warning is only for one tire (!!) I mean WOW! that is so thoughtful!

So, i asked them to pick the car and take it to the workshop. They didn't have a flatbed free for a week. I wait for a week, put the car on the flatbed (yes, i paid 3 grands for that!) and eventually it's taken to the workshop. The same story comes back. I tell them that brake pads cannot wear out on a car run only 34000 kms! Service advisor said that it depends on driving style. So i politely remind him that i also drive a Skoda Laura (36000 kms), Skoda Octavia (1,40,000 kms!), Cruze, Innova, and blah blah.. and none of these or other cars in the past have brakes worn out so early. And yes, since i am the only one driving most of these, the driving style subjected to the cars is kind of same throughout the range.

Current Status: I tried contacting Daimler India for assistance but as WASN'T expected, they don't reply! Yes, they don't reply. Phones go unanswered and emails don't come back.

I have clearly told AH that i have absolutely NO problems in paying the 35 odd thousand they want for repairs but i just need to be convinced that this car isn't a lemon. A quick flashback:

1) this car has had a differential failure (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ferential.html).
Damage: covered by AH under goodwill as differentials don't fail on cars at 20000 kms and my car was just out-of warranty then.

2) ESP sensor failure
Damage: paid over a lakh rupees to cover 50% ESP sensor repairs and got new shoes for about 56000 rupees
Again, the ESP went bad for a car done less than 30000 kms, no proper reason given, something like: The ESP sensor is bad, we suggest you replace it, ok?
I clearly suspected the ESP problem to have arised when they fixed the differential, they claimed otherwise.

3) the car pulls to the left abnormally - complained several times, claimed to be fixed several times, yet the problem is there

4) boot doesn't lift automatically, fixed, and recurred again

5) The brake failure

Now, i use this car mostly on highways and like once a week or so. Sometimes i do dangerous speeds on expressway and any of these problems could be potentially fatal at such speeds.

All i asked AH was to get the car inspected by Mercedes technical guys who should convince me that the car won't give me more of such fatal problems. They need to convince me that when i drive on highways, i shouldn't feel threatened. I should feel safe in a car Mercedes claims to be amongst their Safest Cars. They couldn't do that, nobody from Daimler has time for this. My car is parked at AH for almost two weeks when i have continuously needed that car at home.

I don't mind putting in lakhs of rupees in this car's maintenance, only if Mercedes tells me: Yes, the E class is a ridiculously high maintenance car which has problems that no other car will have, at a particular odometer reading.

ajmat · 23rd October 2011, 16:08

Akki, an automatic car is haevy on brake pads as relatively less engine braking is used. 34000 is reasonable to replace break pads. Am surprised through no warning came up!

V-16 · 23rd October 2011, 18:00

I agree with Ajmat. One can expect a brake pad change at 34000kms or even in the range of 25k. I replaced my civic pads at 30000k. The warning light should have come up and whats this only for one tyre crap? Just write to all the auto mag editors, they will help you out. Basically i have seen that authorized service centers know jack **** about the cars they are supposed to be knowing inside out. Call it high turnover rate of labour or whatever, seldom one will get a person who knows his cars clearly. And never expect a repair job from them. They only look to replace because thats where the bucks are. Also, always ask for your old part back.

Turbanator · 23rd October 2011, 18:21

Quote:

i use this car mostly on highways and like once a week or so. Sometimes i do dangerous speeds on expressway

akki , 34K is quite good for rear brake pads - in mine 5series I had to change at around 16K .

But you should have got some warning as these cars are supposed to have condition based servicing - do ask them to check the sensor as well .

bejoy · 23rd October 2011, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akki_5

3) the car pulls to the left abnormally - complained several times, claimed to be fixed several times, yet the problem is there

Did the brake pads from both the rear wheels wear out evenly? If it is only the left one, then the above problem was an indication.

Surprised that the regular service did not prompt for brake pad change!

Neil.Bhujbal · 23rd October 2011, 20:42

True, E280's are the most pending kept at dealerships. I have seen problems cropping up with EGR, brake pad wear warning which keeps on comming,etc etc.But few of them had history such has flood & some haven't.

Did the service guy check brake pads of all wheels ? The brake pad sensors come only on front right & rear right wheel.

Turbanator · 24th October 2011, 09:56

Quote:

the car pulls to the left abnormally - complained several times

Quote:

Did the brake pads from both the rear wheels wear out evenly?If it is only the left one, then the above problem was an indication

Sorry - but can you explain more on this , how can excessive wear on Left Rear Brake pad result in car pulling left .

Quote:

Did the service guy check brake pads of all wheels ? The brake pad sensors come only on front right & rear right wheel.

Whats the source of this information ? seems to be illogical , why will they not put sensors in all wheels ?

Y@SH · 24th October 2011, 14:40

Thats sad! Hope Daimler gets the issue sorted out. I have a 2005 E class. E270 CDI to be precise. Till date just spent 1500 on changing the broken turbo pipe nothing else. Car has done 40,000Kms till date. Recently, I have found that the car is vibrating a lot in when idle and the vibration is less when a light foot is on the pedal. When driving the car above 30km/h the vibrations vanish. Dont know why this happens, any reasons?

Neil.Bhujbal · 24th October 2011, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Sorry - but can you explain more on this , how can excessive wear on Left Rear Brake pad result in car pulling left .

Whats the source of this information ? seems to be illogical , why will they not put sensors in all wheels ?

Source is me. I work as a technician in Mercedes dealership.
The older cars had only one sensor i.e front right & the new ones have two sensors front right & rear right.

Reason for not putting sensors in all wheels - cost cutting & generally the brake pad wear is same on left - right side of FRONT & left-right side of REAR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y@SH

Thats sad! Hope Daimler gets the issue sorted out. I have a 2005 E class. E270 CDI to be precise. Till date just spent 1500 on changing the broken turbo pipe nothing else. Car has done 40,000Kms till date. Recently, I have found that the car is vibrating a lot in when idle and the vibration is less when a light foot is on the pedal. When driving the car above 30km/h the vibrations vanish. Dont know why this happens, any reasons?

Its got to be the engine & transmission mount. Cracks are visible by the time car runs 50K kms.
Tell them about the vibration when giving your car for servicing next time.

manvirr · 25th October 2011, 18:53

Yash, does the car jerk when you put it into drive? I had a similar problem with my Accourd V6. It turned out that engine mounts were broken.

Manvir

Y@SH · 25th October 2011, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil.Bhujbal

Its got to be the engine & transmission mount. Cracks are visible by the time car runs 50K kms.
Tell them about the vibration when giving your car for servicing next time.

Oh! Is it a major issue? I would never again give my car to Autohanger. Reason: Unnecessary adding $$ to the bill.

I will be giving it to de kaar nexus in mahalaxmi for servicing and to sort out this matter. Hope they find the problem.

Thanks for the help

Quote:

Originally Posted by manvirr

Yash, does the car jerk when you put it into drive? I had a similar problem with my Accourd V6. It turned out that engine mounts were broken.

Manvir

Nope no jerks. Just the car vibrates a lot when the car is in D at a traffic light, if some amount of pressure is applied to the pedal then it settles down

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Catalyst_delhi · 25th October 2011, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y@SH

Nope no jerks. Just the car vibrates a lot when the car is in D at a traffic light, if some amount of pressure is applied to the pedal then it settles down

Just to point out , for automatics the tranny should never be in D in idle or traffic lights , The torque converter and the ATF fluid burns up due to fluid friction and extreme pressure and high temperature.

The best is to leave in N or P when idling , the jerks could be the bad ATF fluid or heated ATF fluid as well or the torque converter packing up.

Also check the IACV if clogged. thanks

Y@SH · 26th October 2011, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catalyst_delhi

Just to point out , for automatics the tranny should never be in D in idle or traffic lights , The torque converter and the ATF fluid burns up due to fluid friction and extreme pressure and high temperature.

The best is to leave in N or P when idling , the jerks could be the bad ATF fluid or heated ATF fluid as well or the torque converter packing up.

Also check the IACV if clogged. thanks

Thanks for the info. Btw its only me who doesnt bother to put it into N. My driver who drives the car 80% puts it into P or N everytime.

Neil.Bhujbal · 26th October 2011, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y@SH

Oh! Is it a major issue? I would never again give my car to Autohanger. Reason: Unnecessary adding $$ to the bill.

I will be giving it to de kaar nexus in mahalaxmi for servicing and to sort out this matter. Hope they find the problem.

Thanks for the help

If the mounts are the actual reason than its not a major issue,not for now at least. Do let us know when u get it sorted & the reason if its anything different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catalyst_delhi

Just to point out , for automatics the tranny should never be in D in idle or traffic lights , The torque converter and the ATF fluid burns up due to fluid friction and extreme pressure and high temperature.

The best is to leave in N or P when idling , the jerks could be the bad ATF fluid or heated ATF fluid as well or the torque converter packing up.

Also check the IACV if clogged. thanks

I dont think keeping the car idling in D is that much of a problem.

1)Yes the ATF might heat up a little but then you have a oil cooler & nothing can happen to the torque converter.
2)The oil pressure in the automatic gearbox is dependent on the engine speed so be the car in P, N or idling in D the oil pressure remains same.

In mercedes the jerk you get when putting the vehicle in D,R can be reduced buy reducing some pneumatic pressure off the system.

By the way whats IACV ?

Catalyst_delhi · 26th October 2011, 12:59

When the auto box is in D , the idle torque is not going to the wheels in terms of motion. When this happens there is extreme pressure and heat generated at the torque converter.

IACV - idle air control valve can get plugged.

Also check the O2 sensors and spark plugs while you are at it.

pulling the codes is the best way to get forward in any case.

23rd October 2011, 14:46	#1
Akki_5 Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 311 Thanked: 67 Times	Mercedes E class woes Background: Car: E280 CDI (W211) Elegance - Feb 2007 model. Mileage: approx. 34000 kms This car is amazing to drive but has had it's own share of problems, some have been potentially fatal. Currently, as i type, the car has been with AutoHangar Mumbai since about 10 days gathering dust. When i was driving back from Andheri about two weeks ago, there was some vibration and friction sound (only when i brake) from the rear left tire. Thinking it could be something with brakes, i pulled to the side and tried to toggle thru the warning display to check if anything related to brakes had been thrown up. Nothing. Nothing at all. I drove back home slowly, hoping it was nothing major. Called AH and they sent the 24 hour guy to check it. He said that the brake pads had worn out and eaten into the disc brakes (!). I tried to reason that the car has only run 34000 kms and there is no brake warning also. He said, what he said was correct and he didn't know anything apart from that. Well, after substantial reasoning, he told me that brake pad warning is only for one tire (!!) I mean WOW! that is so thoughtful! So, i asked them to pick the car and take it to the workshop. They didn't have a flatbed free for a week. I wait for a week, put the car on the flatbed (yes, i paid 3 grands for that!) and eventually it's taken to the workshop. The same story comes back. I tell them that brake pads cannot wear out on a car run only 34000 kms! Service advisor said that it depends on driving style. So i politely remind him that i also drive a Skoda Laura (36000 kms), Skoda Octavia (1,40,000 kms!), Cruze, Innova, and blah blah.. and none of these or other cars in the past have brakes worn out so early. And yes, since i am the only one driving most of these, the driving style subjected to the cars is kind of same throughout the range. Current Status: I tried contacting Daimler India for assistance but as WASN'T expected, they don't reply! Yes, they don't reply. Phones go unanswered and emails don't come back. I have clearly told AH that i have absolutely NO problems in paying the 35 odd thousand they want for repairs but i just need to be convinced that this car isn't a lemon. A quick flashback: 1) this car has had a differential failure (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ferential.html). Damage: covered by AH under goodwill as differentials don't fail on cars at 20000 kms and my car was just out-of warranty then. 2) ESP sensor failure Damage: paid over a lakh rupees to cover 50% ESP sensor repairs and got new shoes for about 56000 rupees Again, the ESP went bad for a car done less than 30000 kms, no proper reason given, something like: The ESP sensor is bad, we suggest you replace it, ok? I clearly suspected the ESP problem to have arised when they fixed the differential, they claimed otherwise. 3) the car pulls to the left abnormally - complained several times, claimed to be fixed several times, yet the problem is there 4) boot doesn't lift automatically, fixed, and recurred again 5) The brake failure Now, i use this car mostly on highways and like once a week or so. Sometimes i do dangerous speeds on expressway and any of these problems could be potentially fatal at such speeds. All i asked AH was to get the car inspected by Mercedes technical guys who should convince me that the car won't give me more of such fatal problems. They need to convince me that when i drive on highways, i shouldn't feel threatened. I should feel safe in a car Mercedes claims to be amongst their Safest Cars. They couldn't do that, nobody from Daimler has time for this. My car is parked at AH for almost two weeks when i have continuously needed that car at home. I don't mind putting in lakhs of rupees in this car's maintenance, only if Mercedes tells me: Yes, the E class is a ridiculously high maintenance car which has problems that no other car will have, at a particular odometer reading.
	(2) Thanks

23rd October 2011, 16:08	#2
ajmat Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 14,861 Thanked: 27,962 Times View My Garage	Re: Mercedes E class woes Akki, an automatic car is haevy on brake pads as relatively less engine braking is used. 34000 is reasonable to replace break pads. Am surprised through no warning came up!
	() Thanks

23rd October 2011, 18:00	#3
V-16 Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: mumbai Posts: 4,594 Thanked: 950 Times View My Garage	Re: Mercedes E class woes I agree with Ajmat. One can expect a brake pad change at 34000kms or even in the range of 25k. I replaced my civic pads at 30000k. The warning light should have come up and whats this only for one tyre crap? Just write to all the auto mag editors, they will help you out. Basically i have seen that authorized service centers know jack **** about the cars they are supposed to be knowing inside out. Call it high turnover rate of labour or whatever, seldom one will get a person who knows his cars clearly. And never expect a repair job from them. They only look to replace because thats where the bucks are. Also, always ask for your old part back.
	() Thanks

23rd October 2011, 20:42	#6
Neil.Bhujbal BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 192 Thanked: 90 Times	Re: Mercedes E class woes True, E280's are the most pending kept at dealerships. I have seen problems cropping up with EGR, brake pad wear warning which keeps on comming,etc etc.But few of them had history such has flood & some haven't. Did the service guy check brake pads of all wheels ? The brake pad sensors come only on front right & rear right wheel.
	() Thanks

24th October 2011, 14:40	#8
Y@SH BHPian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Mumbai Posts: 454 Thanked: 909 Times	Re: Mercedes E class woes Thats sad! Hope Daimler gets the issue sorted out. I have a 2005 E class. E270 CDI to be precise. Till date just spent 1500 on changing the broken turbo pipe nothing else. Car has done 40,000Kms till date. Recently, I have found that the car is vibrating a lot in when idle and the vibration is less when a light foot is on the pedal. When driving the car above 30km/h the vibrations vanish. Dont know why this happens, any reasons?
	() Thanks

25th October 2011, 18:53	#10
manvirr BHPian Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Chandigarh Posts: 33 Thanked: 24 Times	Re: Mercedes E class woes Yash, does the car jerk when you put it into drive? I had a similar problem with my Accourd V6. It turned out that engine mounts were broken. Manvir
	() Thanks

26th October 2011, 12:59	#15
Catalyst_delhi BHPian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Noida/Coimbator Posts: 351 Thanked: 169 Times	Re: Mercedes E class woes When the auto box is in D , the idle torque is not going to the wheels in terms of motion. When this happens there is extreme pressure and heat generated at the torque converter. IACV - idle air control valve can get plugged. Also check the O2 sensors and spark plugs while you are at it. pulling the codes is the best way to get forward in any case.
	() Thanks