[drdeepudev]

Same issue here:
Make: Fiat Linea emotion pk diesel, year 2009
First timing chain replacement: At around 55,000 km approx from concorde motors, cochin as part of campaign free of cost.

Second at 75000km service paying 8000rs from Hyson fiat cochin.

After that, the engine is consuming oil like anything.

Had a talk with Hyson fiat and got the reply that ill have to replace Half the engine block and will have to shell out to the tune of 1,30,000 rs. I think money has no value these days. Requested for assistance or cost sharing and I was offered 20% discount on engine components. Literally I'm depressed. Im considering myself as a guinea pig of fiat India.
Just like Justin said, there is no drop in pick up or fuel economy.

[rajeev k]

Then this could be applicable to the engines sourced directly form Fiat India by Maruti too.

[justin.das]

Originally Posted by humyum

Hey, very sorry to hear about your car justin.

I have a few questions.

1) How was your daily running and at what intervals/kilometers was the oil changed ?

2) Have you asked Fiat to sort the engine trouble out for goodwill warranty too as your car has already faced a lot of problems earlier ?

Answers

1) Daily Running is very less as my office is near by .Monthly around 600-700 kilometers
2) Yes contacted fiat through the dealer and they rejected the claim as the vehicle is too old .

[a4anurag]

Are we seeing something similar in the below thread too?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...is-engine.html

Looks to be an issue with the VGT DDiS/MJD engine (90PS) avatar.

What I feel is the two threads need to be merged so that the information is at one place in a thread rather than replies getting mixed in these two threads.

What say?

[drdeepudev]

But ertiga's trouble has not been much discussed there. If there are troubles in sx4s and ertigas, then yes, there is some problem with fiat engines. Why only 90 hp develops this problem.
Got a reply from fiat service that my complaint has been forwarded to hyson fiat. I had clearly mentioned that hyson fiat could not find any problem with engine and I had paid around 600rs and One whole day at hyson fiat cochin. I don't how these customer care executives handle the matter.
Hyson fiat, when I mentioned about this issue, initially without even seeing the car was adamant in replacing half engine block. If they were so sure about this issue, I suspect a foul play which even fiat India knows about.

After diagnosis they had mentioned in that paper that there is no leaks, no compression loss in any of the cylinders and have to disassemble the engine. Im taking that report with a pinch of salt.

Not sure about the way forward.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by drdeepudev

Same issue here:
Make: Fiat Linea emotion pk diesel, year 2009
First timing chain replacement: At around 55,000 km approx from concorde motors, cochin as part of campaign free of cost.

Second at 75000km service paying 8000rs from Hyson fiat cochin.

After that, the engine is consuming oil like anything.

Had a talk with Hyson fiat and got the reply that ill have to replace Half the engine block and will have to shell out to the tune of 1,30,000 rs. I think money has no value these days. Requested for assistance or cost sharing and I was offered 20% discount on engine components. Literally I'm depressed. Im considering myself as a guinea pig of fiat India.
Just like Justin said, there is no drop in pick up or fuel economy.

In Liquid terms, how much is the consumption ? Like how many kilometers = how much oil is getting consumed ?

Have you checked for white smoke coming out from the exhaust ?

How about the pickup and mileage ? Is the Turbo kick normal ?

[drdeepudev]

Originally Posted by humyum

In Liquid terms, how much is the consumption ? Like how many kilometers = how much oil is getting consumed ?

Have you checked for white smoke coming out from the exhaust ?

How about the pickup and mileage ? Is the Turbo kick normal ?

Now the car is around 86700km. I replaced the oil at 85000. Now almost 3 lts of 5w40 synthetic oil got over ( approximately as checked through dipstick). I have spare oil which i use for topping it up.

Pick up and mileage is not compromised. Long runs is giving a mileage / average of around 18km/l in mixed conditions. Yes, I can feel the turbo kicking in. Hyson could not find a problem with the turbo.

Regarding smoke, there is no white smoke. Smoke is blackish. Hyson people were convincing me to believe that there is a bluish tinge in that grey smoke, which this mortal with/ without glasses could not make out. They suggest this is due to the burning of engine oil.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by drdeepudev

Now the car is around 86700km. I replaced the oil at 85000. Now almost 3 lts of 5w40 synthetic oil got over ( approximately as checked through dipstick). I have spare oil which i use for topping it up.

Pick up and mileage is not compromised. Long runs is giving a mileage / average of around 18km/l in mixed conditions. Yes, I can feel the turbo kicking in. Hyson could not find a problem with the turbo.

Regarding smoke, there is no white smoke. Smoke is blackish. Hyson people were convincing me to believe that there is a bluish tinge in that grey smoke, which this mortal with/ without glasses could not make out. They suggest this is due to the burning of engine oil.

So in around 1700 kilometers your car has consumed 3 liters of Engine oil If engine oil was indeed entering the combustion chamber and the rate at which oil has been consumed, you would rich white smoke coming out which you say is not coming out, so your problem lies elsewhere.

Just so I am clear, you are checking the engine oil with the car on a flat ground after the car has been not been run for a few hours, is that correct ?

Have you checked the coolant ? Do you see traces of engine oil in it and vice versa in the engine oil do you see any traces of coolant ( look for a white and black mixture)

Do you see any oil seepage on the outside of the timing chain cover ?

Has the service station done a compression test on the Cylinders ?

If the compression test comes out fine, I would put my doubts on the turbo. Open the intercooler and check if its filled with oil or not.

[akshay4587]

Originally Posted by drdeepudev

Same issue here:
Make: Fiat Linea emotion pk diesel, year 2009
First timing chain replacement: At around 55,000 km approx from concorde motors, cochin as part of campaign free of cost.

Second at 75000km service paying 8000rs from Hyson fiat cochin.

After that, the engine is consuming oil like anything.

Had a talk with Hyson fiat and got the reply that ill have to replace Half the engine block and will have to shell out to the tune of 1,30,000 rs. I think money has no value these days. Requested for assistance or cost sharing and I was offered 20% discount on engine components. Literally I'm depressed. Im considering myself as a guinea pig of fiat India.
Just like Justin said, there is no drop in pick up or fuel economy.

If you had replaced at 55K why did you again replace at 75K?
I had timing chain replaced in my Linea at 62K, and now the car has done about 132K, Fiat mechanics themselves asked me not to replace the chain for next 10-20K kms if the car is running fine without any abnormal chain noise.

[drdeepudev]

Originally Posted by humyum

So in around 1700 kilometers your car has consumed 3 liters of Engine oil If engine oil was indeed entering the combustion chamber and the rate at which oil has been consumed, you would rich white smoke coming out which you say is not coming out, so your problem lies elsewhere.

Just so I am clear, you are checking the engine oil with the car on a flat ground after the car has been not been run for a few hours, is that correct ?

Have you checked the coolant ? Do you see traces of engine oil in it and vice versa in the engine oil do you see any traces of coolant ( look for a white and black mixture)

Do you see any oil seepage on the outside of the timing chain cover ?

Has the service station done a compression test on the Cylinders ?

If the compression test comes out fine, I would put my doubts on the turbo. Open the intercooler and check if its filled with oil or not.

No oil seepage visible. No white smoke visible. Compression test came out negative. No loss there. Turbo as per hyson fiat no issues on that part also. I can upload the result of the test. They have not told about the intercooler or they did not mention that as a faulty point. What should I expect in case of oil in intercooler?

Originally Posted by akshay4587

If you had replaced at 55K why did you again replace at 75K?
I had timing chain replaced in my Linea at 62K, and now the car has done about 132K, Fiat mechanics themselves asked me not to replace the chain for next 10-20K kms if the car is running fine without any abnormal chain noise.

At 75000km when taken for service, the service advisor was telling about timing chain sound and attributed that to shoddy repair work at Tata motors. He also warned me about possible engine seIzure. As the car is dear to my heart and him being a mechanical engineer I agreed for the change and paid for that from my pocket.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by justin.das

Fiat being an engine manufacturer and MJD the national engine of India, how can be an engine this much unreliable .Is it a manufacturer issue or a dealer issue?

I don't know too much about engines. I am sure the dealer has already checked this. I hope the engine is not losing oil by means of a leak somewhere, around the turbo housing, etc.

The engine is not unreliable. This clearly seems a car from the batch that came with a fault of the timing chain. This defect has taken place at a manufacturing or part supplier level. Fiat is to blame. It is rare to come across complex problems with the 1.3 Multijet.

I don't believe the engine is dead or has failed to the extent that you need a half engine. If economy is good and acceleration is strong, there is little to worry on the engine's internals. It could be something else. Do you have a lot of black smoke coming out of the tail pipe? This will be one place to start and ascertain the problem.

What about another change for the timing belt? The problem seems to have started only after the change and not before.

[lurker]

after some research online, I came to the conclusion that when a smaller engine has to lug more weight or has to produce more power with a relatively smaller turbo the timing chain sprockets are built more sharper to support increased power requirements. This results in more wear and tear of timing chain especially at the slightest indication of engine oil viscosity getting reduced with age. This in all probability is what is ailing the 90ps versions of the multijet.

It is clearly a manufacturing defect and nothing related to usage patterns. The risk can be reduced to certain levels by being paranoid about engine oil changes and maybe not allowing the oil to get all black and gunky. This engine requires a bit of babying.

[drdeepudev]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

I don't know too much about engines. I am sure the dealer has already checked this. I hope the engine is not losing oil by means of a leak somewhere, around the turbo housing, etc.

The engine is not unreliable. This clearly seems a car from the batch that came with a fault of the timing chain. This defect has taken place at a manufacturing or part supplier level. Fiat is to blame. It is rare to come across complex problems with the 1.3 Multijet.

I don't believe the engine is dead or has failed to the extent that you need a half engine. If economy is good and acceleration is strong, there is little to worry on the engine's internals. It could be something else. Do you have a lot of black smoke coming out of the tail pipe? This will be one place to start and ascertain the problem.

What about another change for the timing belt? The problem seems to have started only after the change and not before.

The FASS have checked all those. I have their report stating there is no leaks, no compression loss etc. Even justin who started this thread have changed the timing belt at the same FASS Hyson cochin. Even I suspect a defect from their part. Regarding black smoke, it comes only when revved hard. Otherwise on starting there is no smoke. Since the engine is on this condition I rarely revv it hard. Since being in the medical profession, I love to diagnose the conditions. But in this case a diagnosis rarely happen. All they say is replace the engine block, replace the engine block, replace the engine block. Im extremely unhappy with this attitude.

Originally Posted by lurker

after some research online, I came to the conclusion that when a smaller engine has to lug more weight or has to produce more power with a relatively smaller turbo the timing chain sprockets are built more sharper to support increased power requirements. This results in more wear and tear of timing chain especially at the slightest indication of engine oil viscosity getting reduced with age. This in all probability is what is ailing the 90ps versions of the multijet.

It is clearly a manufacturing defect and nothing related to usage patterns. The risk can be reduced to certain levels by being paranoid about engine oil changes and maybe not allowing the oil to get all black and gunky. This engine requires a bit of babying.

The point you stated may be right. We were sticking religiously to the 15000 km service schedule. There lies our foolishness. I also believed in superior oil quality of selenia ( as claimed). But now, fiats gets an oil change interval of 10000km. But that circular came after us, the old guinea pigs started developing problems. Who has to be blamed? If it is a problem with fiat engine, is it rational to charge us an amount equal to 1,30,000 approx to get it repaired?

[justin.das]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

I don't know too much about engines. I am sure the dealer has already checked this. I hope the engine is not losing oil by means of a leak somewhere, around the turbo housing, etc.
I don't believe the engine is dead or has failed to the extent that you need a half engine. If economy is good and acceleration is strong, there is little to worry on the engine's internals. It could be something else. Do you have a lot of black smoke coming out of the tail pipe? This will be one place to start and ascertain the problem.

As per the dealer there is no leaks from the engine .Turbo and related components are fine .Compression is fine .No error codes from the ECU.No change in power delivery or mileage .Yes black smoke is there .No Oil stain in coolant or vice versa .

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

What about another change for the timing belt? The problem seems to have started only after the change and not before.

Yes the problem started after the timing chain replacement and this scenario is same for all those who are facing the oil consumption issue .Changing the timing chain again wont solve the issue as the engine is now consuming oil

Originally Posted by lurker

after some research online, I came to the conclusion that when a smaller engine has to lug more weight or has to produce more power with a relatively smaller turbo the timing chain sprockets are built more sharper to support increased power requirements. This results in more wear and tear of timing chain especially at the slightest indication of engine oil viscosity getting reduced with age. This in all probability is what is ailing the 90ps versions of the multijet.

It is clearly a manufacturing defect and nothing related to usage patterns. The risk can be reduced to certain levels by being paranoid about engine oil changes and maybe not allowing the oil to get all black and gunky.

Yes the displacement vs weight factor is being told by some experts and as per them, it's not wise to repair these engines as the issue will re-occur .I am changing my car's engine oil each 10,000 kilometers from right after the fiat circular. That all what i can do as i was unaware of this 15000kms oil viscosity issue.When this circular was released i enquired the reason behind the change in service interval and the replay was that the dust in road conditions is causing the oil to loose its viscosity in higher rate than they expected and this is applicable to those who are using the car mainly in city . Fiat upgraded the airfilter box also as part of this circular.

Originally Posted by lurker

This engine requires a bit of babying

Yes i was literally babying the car for past 6 years.The usual highway speed for my car was 80-100 km/hr and very rarely the rpm goes over 3000 . All services and repair were done at proper time , still am facing this issue .

[lurker]

>> I am changing my car's engine oil each 10,000 kilometers from right after the fiat circular.

Maybe you have to replace as per usage and not by mileage. The other brand that is facing this timing chain problem is certain varients of BMW e90, it is significant because the brand is known to juice out even the last drop of performance from the engine. Euro manufacturers are reknowned for using smaller engines and getting bigger performance.

American car manufacturers like GM, Ford are not facing this issue because their engines are also bigger all 3.5-4 Ltr +.