Brake calliper problem! Was this the solution?

Rehaan · 17th April 2007, 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaustubh_vaze

Problem 1: ..... I took it to the mechanic who said that the front brake pads have worn off. (2004 model, 35K Kms). That came as a surprise.

Problem 2: .....Then on a gradual slope, the car rolled a bit and stopped automatically as if the brakes were applied. .... The feeling was like the brake is being applied gently.

Hi Kaustubh_vaze,

Do you see a relation between the two stories you have told ? I think i do.

I cant guess at what the cause of your problem is at the moment, but it seems like there might be undue braking pressure being applied at your front calipers.
Its also possible that its on all four wheels, but the effects were more noticable on the front.

Get your entire braking system checked out properly after explaining the problem to a mechanic who knows what he's doing.

cya
R

Zappo · 17th April 2007, 08:21

I think I should have updated this thread long back. But it is never late. My car's problem got sorted out long back. Although the mechs at A.S.S. tried every trick in the book (and assured me that they licked the problem) it kept coming back. Till one day finally my brakes threw up the ghost.

The car simply froze on the road on my way to the office. It simply refused to budge. The brakes were refusing to let go! I called their mobile service. They said they will send in a towing vehicle. In the meantime the brakes cooled down a bit and the car just about started moving. So I slowly drove it to office (another 2kms).

The mechs came. They tried everything and finally threw up their hands and said it will have to go back to the service station. The car had its entire master cylinder, brake booster assembly etc changed, under warranty.

Since then the problem never recurred.

Coming back to Kaustubh's problem, I do not think that all of a sudden these could have happened to your car (mine happened over a period of 6 months, slowly). However I suspect that while working with your braking system they may have inadvertently introduced air bubbles in the system. Bleeding the fluid once and then refilling it may just solve the problem for you.

kaustubh_vaze · 18th April 2007, 17:34

An update on this -
I just heard back from the mechanic, he says the brake pistons had rusted completely and had to be changed. This could be attributed to the incident which I had around 2 years back. In Pune, we had incessant rains and I accidentally drove into a submerged road behind a military truck. I had the water almost to the height of the front grill.
So that could be the reason why the pistons had rusted.
@Rehaan - I see the relation between the 2 scenarios now. The rear liners were also changed today. So this has been happening for some days and now it got noticed.

Thanks guys,
Kaustubh

Rehaan · 18th April 2007, 21:54

Excellent.... good to see the solutions to both the problems being posted one after the other!

Its best not to take any chances when there are braking issuees, as a small thing may end up becoming the worst of problems at the most inconvenient time.

cya
R

Lukeskywalker · 19th April 2007, 17:32

Quote:

The mechs came. They tried everything and finally threw up their hands and said it will have to go back to the service station. The car had its entire master cylinder, brake booster assembly etc changed, under warranty.

Since then the problem never recurred.

Just saw this thread. I had this problem with my Cielo.It turned out to be that I had driven downhill and used the brakes excessively thus heating up the pistons and so they expanded, jamming the callipers. Brakes would work only when cooled. The discs had heated up so much that they melted the hub caps.
Even i tried everything from greasing, changing front brake pads, sandpapering etc, but semblance was achieved only after the entire servo system was changed.
Moral of the story:
Don't try to be an F1 driver while coming down hills.

Zappo · 29th February 2008, 01:31

Ok. I think its time I made another update on this thread. Every Indica seems to have one 'achilles heels' or the other. Mine I guess is the braking system.

For those who did not read from the begining here it is in a nutshell. My car when was comparatively new used to find it difficult to move in traffic after being driven in stop-go kind of traffic for 15-20 mins. They tried a lot of tricks but the problem refused to go away. The brake callipers will refuse to release once the brakes were applied. Ultimately one day the brakes completely froze the vehicle on the road.

Service folks decided that the brake booster assembly has gone kaput and will have to be changed. It was done under warranty. However since then the brakes were never the same again. I always used to complain in every service that the brakes fail to inspire confidence. I needed to pump the brakes at times when I needed to decelerate quickly from a high speed. They mostly used to say everything is fine or else will do some temporary tikrambaaji. But the problem never permanently went away.

After all the 4 free services were over and the car went for its 1st paid service I just would not have it any other way. The head of the services (kind of supervisor) decided to drive the car himself. He took it on the highway. Tried braking at high speed several times and then agreed that there is indeed some problem.

After keeping the car for a day with them they agreed that the booster assembly has a problem and will need change. I claimed it under extended warranty and it got passed. It took them 7 days to deliver the car back.

Surprisingly I found after a couple of hours of driving that nothing has changed! Whatever they did was fast disappearing and the old problem is coming back. I needed to pump again to make the car stop quickly from a high speed.

Now I again called up the service guys, zharoed them left right and center... even called up tata. The nice folks that they are they again wanted me to get the car back to the service station. But now I have lost the inclination to take it back to those same guys all over again and keep the car with them again for an extended period and undergo all the hardships without the car. This when I am dead sure nothing will come out of it.

Now my question is, what could be the problem folks? Any ideas? Braking system is an extremely simple contraption and the only thing of some technical meaning is the booster assembly. They have changed it twice. I do not think that it is the sole problem. And yet what else is there in the braking mechanism that is making this such a chipkoo issue that refuses to go away?

EDIT: By the way, since the second change of the brake booster assembly and my reporting of the no-change issue to tata and the service guys a good 3 months or more has elapsed. I just never took it back. I am not even sure I am even going to do something about it immediately. I have kind of got a hang of it and manage to stop the car pretty well (though it surprises the hell out of any person non-initiated to my car) just by light pumping. I hardly have the time to take it again to a service station. But thought I will post it here nonetheless and pick everyone's brains to see if there could be a new angle to this whole thing that we are all missing out on.

rider60 · 29th February 2008, 03:53

zappo if you want precise analysis of the persisting problem i suggest you take it to new-mars garage, they are very good. they will tell you the problem right away and will also have a good diagnosis done. take suren's reference who is getting his fiat restored and pay a quick visit, should give you the analysis and you should be able to get the things changed under the warranty too.
i will pm you the number of the garage owner.

im_srini · 29th February 2008, 11:28

Hi Zappo, just my $0.02... I'm no specialist, but if I'm not mistaken, most small cars available here have single-piston floating disk brakes. The pads ARE supposed to be in slight contact with the disk. If the pads in the caliper aren't in contact, it could take several pumps of the pedal to get the pads to make contact since the caliper piston is much larger than the one in the master cylinder. Just theorizing here, but could your rotors be warped and hence keep pushing the pistons back into the caliper ? I also, remember reading in an old manual (don't remember the car) that after bleeding the brakes, they have to be pressurized by "pumping" the pedal.

I'm assuming that your service guys would've eliminated trivial causes by bleeding the brakes & checking the vacuum line from manifold to the booster for leaks.

17th April 2007, 08:21	#17
Zappo Team-BHP Support Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 5,919 Thanked: 2,652 Times	I think I should have updated this thread long back. But it is never late. My car's problem got sorted out long back. Although the mechs at A.S.S. tried every trick in the book (and assured me that they licked the problem) it kept coming back. Till one day finally my brakes threw up the ghost. The car simply froze on the road on my way to the office. It simply refused to budge. The brakes were refusing to let go! I called their mobile service. They said they will send in a towing vehicle. In the meantime the brakes cooled down a bit and the car just about started moving. So I slowly drove it to office (another 2kms). The mechs came. They tried everything and finally threw up their hands and said it will have to go back to the service station. The car had its entire master cylinder, brake booster assembly etc changed, under warranty. Since then the problem never recurred. Coming back to Kaustubh's problem, I do not think that all of a sudden these could have happened to your car (mine happened over a period of 6 months, slowly). However I suspect that while working with your braking system they may have inadvertently introduced air bubbles in the system. Bleeding the fluid once and then refilling it may just solve the problem for you.
	() Thanks

18th April 2007, 17:34	#18
kaustubh_vaze BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 224 Thanked: 53 Times View My Garage	Problem discovered An update on this - I just heard back from the mechanic, he says the brake pistons had rusted completely and had to be changed. This could be attributed to the incident which I had around 2 years back. In Pune, we had incessant rains and I accidentally drove into a submerged road behind a military truck. I had the water almost to the height of the front grill. So that could be the reason why the pistons had rusted. @Rehaan - I see the relation between the 2 scenarios now. The rear liners were also changed today. So this has been happening for some days and now it got noticed. Thanks guys, Kaustubh
	() Thanks

18th April 2007, 21:54	#19
Rehaan Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 24,039 Thanked: 34,069 Times	Excellent.... good to see the solutions to both the problems being posted one after the other! Its best not to take any chances when there are braking issuees, as a small thing may end up becoming the worst of problems at the most inconvenient time. cya R
	() Thanks

29th February 2008, 01:31	#21
Zappo Team-BHP Support Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 5,919 Thanked: 2,652 Times	Ok. I think its time I made another update on this thread. Every Indica seems to have one 'achilles heels' or the other. Mine I guess is the braking system. For those who did not read from the begining here it is in a nutshell. My car when was comparatively new used to find it difficult to move in traffic after being driven in stop-go kind of traffic for 15-20 mins. They tried a lot of tricks but the problem refused to go away. The brake callipers will refuse to release once the brakes were applied. Ultimately one day the brakes completely froze the vehicle on the road. Service folks decided that the brake booster assembly has gone kaput and will have to be changed. It was done under warranty. However since then the brakes were never the same again. I always used to complain in every service that the brakes fail to inspire confidence. I needed to pump the brakes at times when I needed to decelerate quickly from a high speed. They mostly used to say everything is fine or else will do some temporary tikrambaaji. But the problem never permanently went away. After all the 4 free services were over and the car went for its 1st paid service I just would not have it any other way. The head of the services (kind of supervisor) decided to drive the car himself. He took it on the highway. Tried braking at high speed several times and then agreed that there is indeed some problem. After keeping the car for a day with them they agreed that the booster assembly has a problem and will need change. I claimed it under extended warranty and it got passed. It took them 7 days to deliver the car back. Surprisingly I found after a couple of hours of driving that nothing has changed! Whatever they did was fast disappearing and the old problem is coming back. I needed to pump again to make the car stop quickly from a high speed. Now I again called up the service guys, zharoed them left right and center... even called up tata. The nice folks that they are they again wanted me to get the car back to the service station. But now I have lost the inclination to take it back to those same guys all over again and keep the car with them again for an extended period and undergo all the hardships without the car. This when I am dead sure nothing will come out of it. Now my question is, what could be the problem folks? Any ideas? Braking system is an extremely simple contraption and the only thing of some technical meaning is the booster assembly. They have changed it twice. I do not think that it is the sole problem. And yet what else is there in the braking mechanism that is making this such a chipkoo issue that refuses to go away? EDIT: By the way, since the second change of the brake booster assembly and my reporting of the no-change issue to tata and the service guys a good 3 months or more has elapsed. I just never took it back. I am not even sure I am even going to do something about it immediately. I have kind of got a hang of it and manage to stop the car pretty well (though it surprises the hell out of any person non-initiated to my car) just by light pumping. I hardly have the time to take it again to a service station. But thought I will post it here nonetheless and pick everyone's brains to see if there could be a new angle to this whole thing that we are all missing out on. Last edited by Zappo : 29th February 2008 at 01:37.
	() Thanks

29th February 2008, 03:53	#22
rider60 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bhagyanagaram. (A.K.A. Hyderabad) Posts: 1,620 Thanked: 56 Times View My Garage	zappo if you want precise analysis of the persisting problem i suggest you take it to new-mars garage, they are very good. they will tell you the problem right away and will also have a good diagnosis done. take suren's reference who is getting his fiat restored and pay a quick visit, should give you the analysis and you should be able to get the things changed under the warranty too. i will pm you the number of the garage owner.
	() Thanks

29th February 2008, 11:28	#23
im_srini BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portland Posts: 1,010 Thanked: 489 Times View My Garage	Hi Zappo, just my $0.02... I'm no specialist, but if I'm not mistaken, most small cars available here have single-piston floating disk brakes. The pads ARE supposed to be in slight contact with the disk. If the pads in the caliper aren't in contact, it could take several pumps of the pedal to get the pads to make contact since the caliper piston is much larger than the one in the master cylinder. Just theorizing here, but could your rotors be warped and hence keep pushing the pistons back into the caliper ? I also, remember reading in an old manual (don't remember the car) that after bleeding the brakes, they have to be pressurized by "pumping" the pedal. I'm assuming that your service guys would've eliminated trivial causes by bleeding the brakes & checking the vacuum line from manifold to the booster for leaks.
	() Thanks