[r@CYR@y]

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

I would say that all of the factors mentioned play a role in the handling of a car. The two most important being rigidity of the chassis (this is the simple one) and Suspension geometry.

Cheers,

Hi ravveendrra,

The most important factor that influences the handling of the car is "THE DRIVER", A good driver can make any car sing to his tunes whatever the handling setup is (when compared to a novice)..

Lets see an example
Suppose Mr.X (Amateur) is driving a Ferrari Enzo and THE RED BARON is driving a stock Accord, who do you think will clock the fastest time around a lap (One attempt only)..

After the driver's skill, every thing will affect the handling of a car.

[Ravveendrra]

Originally Posted by Guna

I have read many people mentioning about 'rigid chasis'. Aren't all car chassis rigid and not flexible?

Every chassis flexes a little. They are made of metal and metal bends a little due to inherent 'elasticity'. Observe an empty truck ripping along an uneven surface and see how the chassis and body twist and turn (of course the flex is magnified due to the size of the truck but this also gives us an opportunity to observe the phenomenon). Some chassis are more rigid than others and flex less.

Originally Posted by r@CYR@y

Hi ravveendrra,

The most important factor that influences the handling of the car is "THE DRIVER", A good driver can make any car sing to his tunes whatever the handling setup is (when compared to a novice)..

Lets see an example
Suppose Mr.X (Amateur) is driving a Ferrari Enzo and THE RED BARON is driving a stock Accord, who do you think will clock the fastest time around a lap (One attempt only)..

After the driver's skill, every thing will affect the handling of a car.

I thought we were discussing the inherent qualities of the car and its chassis and not the skill of the driver. Of course what you say is true, but the discussion here is about why different cars handle differently with the same driver behind the wheel, what are the factors that affect handling and the reason for the difference in handling between different suspension set-ups (always presuming that it is the same driver driving).

Cheers,

[r@CYR@y]

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

I thought we were discussing the inherent qualities of the car and its chassis and not the skill of the driver.
Cheers,

But the title of this topic reads :

Handling - Factors that influence it!

There is no mention about car or driver specific factors, There are many factors apart from the driver and car's abilities that affect the handling, so why not discuss everything here?

Originally Posted by Guna

I have read many people mentioning about 'rigid chasis'. Aren't all car chassis rigid and not flexible?

Fully Rigid Chasis are not preferable in car because of the safety of its users, A good chasis is the one which absorbs some of the impact forces arising due to the laws of physics and nature, and in case of any crash the chasis should collapse to reduce the effect of collision to some extent, If it is stiff then It may bounce back as soon as it hits something then the inertia forces will destroy the car everybody inside the car..

[Ravveendrra]

Originally Posted by r@CYR@y

But the title of this topic reads :

Handling - Factors that influence it!

There is no mention about car or driver specific factors, There are many factors apart from the driver and car's abilities that affect the handling, so why not discuss everything here?


..

The first post set the tone and indicated the direction for the discussion by mentioning some of the factors. Of course we could discuss related issues here as long as they are not seriously OT.

TBHP is a forum for driving enthusiasts who are very often looking for ways to get the most out of their cars. A discussion on how to choose a car or components that will improve handling will benefit members greatly. If we learn a little about the suspensions in the cars and the different aspects of it, we can set-up or tune the suspensions on our cars better.

There are seperate threads here on driving techniques and skills all of which aim to improve the manner in which the driver handles the car.

Cheers,

[Guna]

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

Every chassis flexes a little. They are made of metal and metal bends a little due to inherent 'elasticity'. Observe an empty truck ripping along an uneven surface and see how the chassis and body twist and turn (of course the flex is magnified due to the size of the truck but this also gives us an opportunity to observe the phenomenon). Some chassis are more rigid than others and flex less.

Yes, in case of some trucks, the twisting along the body is vissible. But the car, the chasis is a shell (monocoque) and should prevent the 'twisting' to a great extent. Also, some of the other members that are fixed on to the chasis are rigid, like the seat frames, various mountings etc and any slight twist in the shell should result in some Squeak (kar kar sound). May be the amount of twisting is minimal and almost unnoticable.

Originally Posted by r@CYR@y

Fully Rigid Chasis are not preferable in car because of the safety of its users, A good chasis is the one which absorbs some of the impact forces arising due to the laws of physics and nature, and in case of any crash the chasis should collapse to reduce the effect of collision to some extent, If it is stiff then It may bounce back as soon as it hits something then the inertia forces will destroy the car everybody inside the car..

I think the impact absorption in case of a collisoin comes with the 'crumbling' of the chasis and for this it doesn't have to be flexible. It is an irreversible deformation.

[ajslave]

in cars, most of the 'twisting' is transferred to the torsion beams, thus aiding handling by not flexing too much, and yet being safe enough by not transferring too much load through to the passenger cabin.

a seam welded chassis further aids rigidity, and i recently paid a hefty amount to get it done on my 911 GT3 RS. in NFS-shift

[narendra.vw]

For normal road car handling, I prefer heavier and rigid body, two door if available, low profile tyre, stabilizer rod (F&B).solid beam suspension at the back, short gear ratio, suspension like 1989 VW golf (front struts top is not bolted, it just sits in a solid cup). This helps in minimizing body roll. Tyres slightly negative cambered, body hugging seats, AWD will be good in rainy season, speed sensitive power steering.
Lastly, good brakes,, lights, wipers, ofcorse music(top gun).

[SirAlec]

Solid Beam suspension, that ate called leaf springs right,?
are you sure about this???

[SS-Traveller]

Here's a very interesting video from Fifth Gear, demonstrating the functioning of ABS, traction control and ESP/ESC/ASC.

YouTube - Fifth Gear ABS, TC, ESP Full version

And another couple of videos of how stability control works.

YouTube - BMW Dynamic Stability Control System

YouTube - Work of ESP

[GTO]

SS-Traveller, here's two on FWD vs RWD vs AWD

YouTube - Fwd vs Awd vs Rwd

YouTube - AWD vs RWD vs RWD

[vnabhi]

Great videos, @SS and GTO. The 5th gear one is the best.

BTW, the second one in GTO's post is in German.

[narendra.vw]

Handling of a car depends on what car is driven.
If he is driving a salon: handling is deferent. More easier due to low CG.
van : cutting angle changes since seating is almost above the F/wheel.
SUV: due to high centre of gravity handling in tight corners is a challenge. On plus side he can see longer distance can be prepared better for any obstacles.
In my opinion, driver can handle any car if he comes to know the dynamics of the car.
more body weight less CG better handling. body roll , gear ratio, .tyre grip, braking power of all four wheel, high rpm engine for better torque distribution between gear change, well balanced stabilizer rod for F/B suspension, importantly firm body grip on the driving seat, steering wheel position, gear shifter position.
A driver can mess up a well handling car if does not know dynamics of the car.

[narendra.vw]

Originally Posted by SirAlec

Solid Beam suspension, that ate called leaf springs right,?
are you sure about this???

Solid beam means rear wheels are connected to a beam it looks more like a swing arm of a two wheeler. Mind you, it is not a independent suspension. IT is not leaf spring, it has coil spring and shocks attched to the arm

[libranof1987]

I think, in an indirect yet significant way, the road surface could also play a role in the handling.

The surface of roads is hardly even remotely similar; so something like the mumbai-pune expressway would give you a considerable grip and control.. while a smooth buttery surface would require more skill..

From personal experience, I feel the slight localized erosion of tar on roads could play a huge role.. I remember, once riding on NH17, I was overtaking a car on my CBZ when the tyre got stuck on a eroded patch and the tyre went along the boundaries of the erosion.

[anupamjain2k]

Gurus,

The past week, was noticing tyre specifications for various cars and found a kind of intriguing pattern.

Take for instance, Baleno and NHC. Now between the two, I'd believe that Baleno is biased towards handling as opposed to ride comfort (read, as firmer chassis and suspension). The tyre sizes for the two however tell a different story. While Baleno came shod with 80 profile tyres, NHC had 65 profile tyres as standard. For the moment, ignoring the width and radius of tyres, the lower profile would mean a car being setup for sportier handling (?)

This set me thinking, and I cam up with a theory, which I wanted to bounce off here, and see if I my thinking is right or is there something that I am missing in this one.

Here goes my hypothesis. Viewed as a combination, chassis, suspension and tyres determine a car's overall behaviour (Handling or Ride Comfort - Am assuming that most of the times, these don't go hand in hand). So the behaviour of the vehicle can be changed by changing either of the above 3 components. Now, it stands to reason that chassis and suspension are more difficult to change, and hence give the car a basic ride/handling characteristic. Tyres are then chosen to enhance/counteract that behaviour.

To come back to the example I quoted in beginning, Baleno's setup for handling, and hence shod with 80 profile tyres, to achieve a decent ride quality, and also leaving the window open for enthusiast to change to a lower profile tyre, to enhance handling, and take advantage of the inherent setup. NHC on the other hand has been setup for ride quality, and to mask that behaviour, and give it acceptable handling qualities is shod with lower profile tyres.

What do you guys think?

Mods: Searched before opening a new thread, but didn't find a relevant thread pre-existing. Also, please move this to the right section, if not already there, and my apologies for the same.