Baleno power difference

bruce · 27th April 2006, 10:46

Hi Friends,

I need a technical input regarding Baleno's power difference.

I heard the EURO-III version is 91bhp@6000 RPM , but the earlier version like the 2003 one is 94 bhp.
Is this true?
If it is what are reasons for reducing the power of the car, by EURO norms?

TIA

Regards,

cooldude1988765 · 27th April 2006, 10:52

Yes it is true and it is because of the euro3 emission norms.

bruce · 27th April 2006, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooldude1988765

Yes it is true and it is because of the euro3 emission norms.

IS there a technical reason why the drop in BHP is?

Technocrat · 27th April 2006, 11:43

All the Euro -3 cars from MUL have 32 bit ECU while the E2 ones had 16 bit ECU. So this could be the reason, although it makes me wonder that why would an ECU upgrade decrease power, may be some other changes.

Also Euro 3 are not just emission norms itsa complet norm for vehicles whihc include emission levels as well.
For example of inclusion of headlamp leveling device in all E3 cars. Also in E2 the inclusion of separate high mount stop lamp are as per the norms guidelines.

directinjection · 27th April 2006, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technocrat

All the Euro -3 cars from MUL have 32 bit ECU while the E2 ones had 16 bit ECU. So this could be the reason, although it makes me wonder that why would an ECU upgrade decrease power, may be some other changes.

Also Euro 3 are not just emission norms itsa complet norm for vehicles whihc include emission levels as well.
For example of inclusion of headlamp leveling device in all E3 cars. Also in E2 the inclusion of separate high mount stop lamp are as per the norms guidelines.

Euro 3 are indeed emissions norms and nothing more. Their Indian version, (based on Indian driving cycle) is known as Bharat Stage III. Euro-III was introduced in Europe in 2000. (Euro-II in 1996 and Euro-I in 1992). India went Bharat-III (only in NCR and select cities) from 1 April 2005. Europe went Euro-IV from 1st January, 2005.

Norms like headlamp levelling device and centre stop lamp at the rear have nothing to do with emission norms. They are laid down in the rules framed under the Motor Vehicles Act. These rules keep changing from time to time. Many more changes are in the offing.

SUV · 27th April 2006, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by directinjection

Norms like headlamp levelling device and centre stop lamp at the rear have nothing to do with emission norms. They are laid down in the rules framed under the Motor Vehicles Act. These rules keep changing from time to time. Many more changes are in the offing.

Er ... I thought all the above combined with Emission Norms are "Bharat Stage III" .....

venkatrx · 27th April 2006, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce

Hi Friends,

I need a technical input regarding Baleno's power difference.

I heard the EURO-III version is 91bhp@6000 RPM , but the earlier version like the 2003 one is 94 bhp.
Is this true?
If it is what are reasons for reducing the power of the car, by EURO norms?

TIA

Regards,

Maruti salesman told that 94 bhp is @ 6000 rpm and 91 bhp is @ 5500 rpm...so nothing has changed itseems.

www.marutibaleno.com mentions 91 bhp @ 5500 rpm

[so i am not sure where you got "91bhp@6000 RPM" from?]

just have a look at this page, at the top para he talks about 94 and then in the spec he talks about 91 [observe the rpm at which the power is measured]
http://www.iloveindia.com/cars/marut...ti-baleno.html

mclaren1885 · 27th April 2006, 16:23

It is indeed true that the BHP figures of the Euro-III baleno have dropped down to 91 ps from 94 ps .. However the peak power is now produced at 500 rpms lesser at 5500 .. Same is the case with the torque as well i guess .. Peak torque is developed at 500 rpms lesser ..

However against the company claims of 91ps , the E-III balenos feel more like they are putting out nothing more than 80 horses at the wheel .. V1p3r's and monish's baleno the two E-II that i have driven move way faster .. And im sure just 3 bhp drop in power cant make that much of a difference ..

E-III cars have much better ECU's .. Its difficult to fool around with them .. We tried removing the revv limiter on a E-III ECU and the revv limiter started kicking in at 20 , 40 , 60 km/hr

... However given the right set of tools these E-III ECU's have a lot of potential ..

Also something that we found out was the E-III's have a EGR valve which is absent on the E-II's .. Also , the cat con has been moved closer to the manifold and thus acts as a major restriction to the flow of exhaust gases .. These are the resons for the power drop in the Euro-III balenos .. Also there are two more mufflers to muffle the sound by a long margin ..

To overcome this , pyscho has disconnected the EGR valve and also removed the cat con and installed a free flow on my baleno .. The end muffler growls like crazy at anything over 1600 rpms , thus my shifts have now got down to 1500 rpms and with all the engine mods im still getting a mileage of around 15

... This along with a brilliant headwork has just transformed my car into the next level of performance nirvana ..

shuvc · 27th April 2006, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

However against the company claims of 91ps , the E-III balenos feel more like they are putting out nothing more than 80 horses at the wheel .. V1p3r's and monish's baleno the two E-II that i have driven move way faster .. And im sure just 3 bhp drop in power cant make that much of a difference ..

Wonder why popular feedback is that it is still feels quicker than the current crop of 100bhp cars .. are the other manufacturers overquoting their numbers ?

mclaren1885 · 27th April 2006, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuvc

Wonder why popular feedback is that it is still feels quicker than the current crop of 100bhp cars .. are the other manufacturers overquoting their numbers ?

Could very well be true .. However , in the baleno E-III's its just that its been detuned to make it more FE .. The original bhp figures of 94 bhp can be easily achived by cracking the two problems mentioned in my previous post ..

frankmehta · 27th April 2006, 17:50

i wonder what a difference 3 bhp would make in the real world...
anyways a drop like that could easily be covered up by a k and n or a free flow...

RX135 · 27th April 2006, 17:53

McLaren,

it is not 91 PS but 91 BHP (slightly more powerful). If the torque is produced at lower RPM, it should in fact perform better and not as 80hp car.

Are you saying that, due to E-III norms, the car is no more as powerful as it used to be? Samurai has E-III car, so he can comment as well.

Performance has been the USP of Baleno (along with brand name) and if Maruti strips it off, it will hamper sales. I would hate if this is true.

balenopower · 27th April 2006, 17:53

AAAH...feels good i have 2000--2001 model...

meerkat · 27th April 2006, 18:04

When Bharat III Baleno was introduced, Maruti FAQ had this very enlightening
information (in fact it is still there in the Maruti Baleno site):

" Q: Will compliance to Bharat Stage III have any effect on the performance or
maintenance cost of the car ?

A: No "

In light of what we know now, does it not amount to spreading misinformation on
Maruti's part to sell cars ?

mclaren1885 · 27th April 2006, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX135

McLaren, it is not 91 PS but 91 BHP (slightly more powerful). If the torque is produced at lower RPM, it should in fact perform better and not as 80hp car.Are you saying that, due to E-III norms, the car is no more as powerful as it used to be? Samurai has E-III car, so he can comment as well..Performance has been the USP of Baleno (along with brand name) and if Maruti strips it off, it will hamper sales. I would hate if this is true.

Thanks for correcting me RX , it is indeed bhp and not PS (too much confu with each manufacturer using a different term) .. Yes , the torque is produced at a lower rpm which certainly translates to better city driving but the car because of the restriction due to the cat con being moved closer doesnt revv quick enough .. That is the reason why it feels slow , specially once u drive a BS-II ..

Yes , i meant the BS -III cars arent as powerful as the BS- II's .. Performance has been the USP of the baleno , even the BS-III version is still capable of taking on the best in the segment in terms of performance and still keep ahead .. This drop in power is what psycho , monish and me noticed off lately and got down to eliminate this on my car .. Thought of reporting it here as well .. However the power might actually not be exactly down to 80 bhp like i quoted but certainly feels like .. But the car is certainly a tad slower than the BS-II's ..

Quote:

does it not amount to spreading misinformation on
Maruti's part to sell cars ?

Well , im not quite sure if maruti knows about this themselves .. We were testing a few cars for the drags redlining in each gear .. Thats when we figured out this difference .. Im sure with the change MUL would have expected a slight decrease but not to this extent , but i guess it wouldnt be easy for a common man to figure out unless one is into pure drag racing ..

27th April 2006, 10:46	#1
bruce BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 140 Thanked: 5 Times View My Garage	Baleno power difference Hi Friends, I need a technical input regarding Baleno's power difference. I heard the EURO-III version is 91bhp@6000 RPM , but the earlier version like the 2003 one is 94 bhp. Is this true? If it is what are reasons for reducing the power of the car, by EURO norms? TIA Regards,
	() Thanks

27th April 2006, 10:52	#2
cooldude1988765 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,042 Thanked: 194 Times	Yes it is true and it is because of the euro3 emission norms.
	() Thanks

27th April 2006, 11:43	#4
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	All the Euro -3 cars from MUL have 32 bit ECU while the E2 ones had 16 bit ECU. So this could be the reason, although it makes me wonder that why would an ECU upgrade decrease power, may be some other changes. Also Euro 3 are not just emission norms itsa complet norm for vehicles whihc include emission levels as well. For example of inclusion of headlamp leveling device in all E3 cars. Also in E2 the inclusion of separate high mount stop lamp are as per the norms guidelines.
	() Thanks

27th April 2006, 16:23	#8
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	It is indeed true that the BHP figures of the Euro-III baleno have dropped down to 91 ps from 94 ps .. However the peak power is now produced at 500 rpms lesser at 5500 .. Same is the case with the torque as well i guess .. Peak torque is developed at 500 rpms lesser .. However against the company claims of 91ps , the E-III balenos feel more like they are putting out nothing more than 80 horses at the wheel .. V1p3r's and monish's baleno the two E-II that i have driven move way faster .. And im sure just 3 bhp drop in power cant make that much of a difference .. E-III cars have much better ECU's .. Its difficult to fool around with them .. We tried removing the revv limiter on a E-III ECU and the revv limiter started kicking in at 20 , 40 , 60 km/hr ... However given the right set of tools these E-III ECU's have a lot of potential .. Also something that we found out was the E-III's have a EGR valve which is absent on the E-II's .. Also , the cat con has been moved closer to the manifold and thus acts as a major restriction to the flow of exhaust gases .. These are the resons for the power drop in the Euro-III balenos .. Also there are two more mufflers to muffle the sound by a long margin .. To overcome this , pyscho has disconnected the EGR valve and also removed the cat con and installed a free flow on my baleno .. The end muffler growls like crazy at anything over 1600 rpms , thus my shifts have now got down to 1500 rpms and with all the engine mods im still getting a mileage of around 15 ... This along with a brilliant headwork has just transformed my car into the next level of performance nirvana ..
	() Thanks

27th April 2006, 17:50	#11
frankmehta Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,000 Thanked: 3,577 Times View My Garage	i wonder what a difference 3 bhp would make in the real world... anyways a drop like that could easily be covered up by a k and n or a free flow...
	() Thanks

27th April 2006, 17:53	#12
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 75 Times	McLaren, it is not 91 PS but 91 BHP (slightly more powerful). If the torque is produced at lower RPM, it should in fact perform better and not as 80hp car. Are you saying that, due to E-III norms, the car is no more as powerful as it used to be? Samurai has E-III car, so he can comment as well. Performance has been the USP of Baleno (along with brand name) and if Maruti strips it off, it will hamper sales. I would hate if this is true.
	() Thanks

27th April 2006, 17:53	#13
balenopower BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 957 Thanked: 465 Times View My Garage	AAAH...feels good i have 2000--2001 model...
	() Thanks

27th April 2006, 18:04	#14
meerkat BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: World Posts: 123 Thanked: 182 Times	Have you noticed this from Maruti .... ? When Bharat III Baleno was introduced, Maruti FAQ had this very enlightening information (in fact it is still there in the Maruti Baleno site): " Q: Will compliance to Bharat Stage III have any effect on the performance or maintenance cost of the car ? A: No " In light of what we know now, does it not amount to spreading misinformation on Maruti's part to sell cars ?
	() Thanks