Does more heavy mean more safe??

drifter · 6th May 2006, 13:37

Exactly like i said the wagon r, santro arent exactly unsafe...im just saying that they would offer lesser degree of protection than an indica, palio etc.
I never said the tall boy design is unsafe...but it has its limitations thats all.

With the amount of indicabs being driven rashly, its no wonder that more indicas are seen in accidents.

But since we dont have crash test data available, till then we can just speculate.

Drifter

arif_t01 · 6th May 2006, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5u3zEr0

Yes and no. There are so many other factors which make a car safe. But if we take two cars with same safety features, the heavier of the two will be safer.

I vote "Maybe".

Amen......couldn't have put it more directly

sendu79 · 6th May 2006, 14:15

I agree just more mass is no gaurantee for a safer vehicle. Metal with the amount of other safety features in it plus where the metal has been used in the vehicle makes up the ultimate safety.

autozealot · 6th May 2006, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by drifter

Exactly like i said the wagon r, santro arent exactly unsafe...im just saying that they would offer lesser degree of protection than an indica, palio etc.
I never said the tall boy design is unsafe...but it has its limitations thats all.

With the amount of indicabs being driven rashly, its no wonder that more indicas are seen in accidents.

But since we dont have crash test data available, till then we can just speculate.

Drifter

very true

Autozealot

tsk1979 · 9th May 2006, 00:55

1.I was driving the indica when it hit a santro at 20kmph from the side. The santro landed on its roof and soon petrol was leaking. Luckily no fires or serious injuries to the occupant due to seat belt and short height(her head was inches away from the roof)
2. Our older indica hit a big stone at 80kmph, lost controled, crashed into the guardrail, spun around and was hit by a huge military truck on the rear. Minor injuries to rear passengers due to being bounced around(no seat belts). Driver excaped without a scratch.

So I guess indica is a pretty safe car. And as for toppling, you can topple a ferrari too, but a tall car will be more susceptible, plain physics here, no rocket science, thats why even a Mercedes SuV will topple more easily than the cars.

nitrous · 9th May 2006, 01:25

Quote:

So I guess indica is a pretty safe car. And as for toppling, you can topple a ferrari too, but a tall car will be more susceptible, plain physics here, no rocket science, thats why even a Mercedes SuV will topple more easily than the cars.

Toppling? I know of formula cars toppling in chennai!

2fast4u · 9th May 2006, 13:52

to speak in real on road terms
seen heavier cars built a decade back much stronger in accident impact front / rear and the rear occupants safe with / without seat belts.

The present generation cars are built with more crumple zones, more lighter, and in the end the compromise is made on the "gauge" of metal used.

the bonnets, door panels of the new cars have metal which can deformed with punch. how can u call these cars safe???
Cars like Caprice, Dodge, or our desi Amby/ contessa are heavy metal.

Boom Shiva · 9th May 2006, 14:27

I agree with the guys who said design is the deciding factor. In the end, it all comes down to how intelligently the car has been put together.

apachelongbow · 12th May 2006, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dceite

Lets make the question a little bit more specific. Alto v/s Indica.
Now Alto is no tall boy, so i dont think i am committing a sin comparing these two.
I personally think Alto is light years ahead of Indica in terms of safety. Whatsay?!

Makes no sense actually. Agreed an Alto's body has more crumple zones to protect the passenger cell in case of a shunt, but it is certianly not 'light years' ahead of say an Indica. Alto's have this problem when a frontal impact takes place, the bonnet crumples into an upward V, this blocking the driver's view. Now how safe is that?

Ravi

bhogalrajnish · 13th July 2006, 02:52

Why the hell in the world you want to look ahead after a frontal inmact .
I dont think there is much you can do in a front impact than jamming on the breaks and for shore the breaks on the ALTO are much better than the Indica.

Quote:

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

Makes no sense actually. Agreed an Alto's body has more crumple zones to protect the passenger cell in case of a shunt, but it is certianly not 'light years' ahead of say an Indica. Alto's have this problem when a frontal impact takes place, the bonnet crumples into an upward V, this blocking the driver's view. Now how safe is that?

Ravi

heelntoe · 13th July 2006, 10:26

i think cars need to have some weight i am not saying they have to be heavy but they should not be ultra light because in the real world there are much huger heavier vehicles that will be carying more momentum than a lighter car at similar speeds hence even if the small car has airbags and all it will still be tossed around causing injuries to the ouccupants even though they might survive. i think there were some images posted here about an accident between a beemer 7 series and an m800. i guess that even if they were wearing the seatbelts they would have hurt badly with airbags it might have been different but the 800 still gets thrown around. again that also depends on the structure and the build of the car. for example, a smart for two is probably smaller than the 800 yet still it manages the save the occupants in the case of an accident due to its crumple zones, airbags and other safety features.
video of smart Vs. s-class
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/06/...wo-crash-test/

1100D · 13th July 2006, 11:03

Safety has nothing to do with Weight. But When you build-in Safety features in a modern car you are bound to push up the weight. The difference in Design thinking in Modern cars as against older ones is to protect the occupant rather than protect the car itself. Many a times a soft hood is a requirement for padestrian safety.

However speaking of Indica, Tata has the only in-house crash testing facility in india and since Tata wants to gain entry into Europe it has safety firmly in its sights for al its automobiles intended to be marketed there. This safety is not only addition of features like airbags or telescopic steering but the Body structure itself.

Most modern cars are built to deform to so that the energy of impact is absorbed. The main theory is if you deform the car , the insurance guys will take care of either repairing it or replacing it, but if something happens to the passengers it would live with them , no matter how well it has been treated and how well they have recovered.

shbhrao · 13th July 2006, 11:11

Hi just going through your discussions, thought this report may be informative. A study done by hte Lawrence National Lab. Berkley :Here's the link [FONT=Times New Roman]Download a PDF file of the complete copy of the report, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=#0033ff]"An Analysis of Traffic Deaths by Vehicle Type and Model"[/COLOR][/FONT]

diabloo · 3rd July 2008, 14:46

After watching the video, I wonder if the the thickness of the sheet has any other purpose, other than making the car heavy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by liberal

Eye opener :- See this Volvo big car crash with new generation Renault compact car. YouTube - Fifth Gear - Renault Modus Vs Volvo 940 - crashtest - 9.27min

bblost · 3rd July 2008, 15:00

I have voted NO.
If weight was the only criteria then I would be very safe.

(but from whom?)

View Poll Results: Does more heavy, mean more safe?
Yes	25	22.12%
No	59	52.21%
Maybe	29	25.66%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

6th May 2006, 13:37	#61
drifter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,488 Thanked: 75 Times View My Garage	Exactly like i said the wagon r, santro arent exactly unsafe...im just saying that they would offer lesser degree of protection than an indica, palio etc. I never said the tall boy design is unsafe...but it has its limitations thats all. With the amount of indicabs being driven rashly, its no wonder that more indicas are seen in accidents. But since we dont have crash test data available, till then we can just speculate. Drifter
	() Thanks

6th May 2006, 14:15	#63
sendu79 Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: hyderbad Posts: 21 Thanked: 0 Times	I agree just more mass is no gaurantee for a safer vehicle. Metal with the amount of other safety features in it plus where the metal has been used in the vehicle makes up the ultimate safety. Last edited by sendu79 : 6th May 2006 at 14:17.
	() Thanks

9th May 2006, 00:55	#65
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	1.I was driving the indica when it hit a santro at 20kmph from the side. The santro landed on its roof and soon petrol was leaking. Luckily no fires or serious injuries to the occupant due to seat belt and short height(her head was inches away from the roof) 2. Our older indica hit a big stone at 80kmph, lost controled, crashed into the guardrail, spun around and was hit by a huge military truck on the rear. Minor injuries to rear passengers due to being bounced around(no seat belts). Driver excaped without a scratch. So I guess indica is a pretty safe car. And as for toppling, you can topple a ferrari too, but a tall car will be more susceptible, plain physics here, no rocket science, thats why even a Mercedes SuV will topple more easily than the cars.
	() Thanks

9th May 2006, 13:52	#67
2fast4u BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: pune / Bahrain Posts: 488 Thanked: 7 Times View My Garage	to speak in real on road terms seen heavier cars built a decade back much stronger in accident impact front / rear and the rear occupants safe with / without seat belts. The present generation cars are built with more crumple zones, more lighter, and in the end the compromise is made on the "gauge" of metal used. the bonnets, door panels of the new cars have metal which can deformed with punch. how can u call these cars safe??? Cars like Caprice, Dodge, or our desi Amby/ contessa are heavy metal.
	() Thanks

9th May 2006, 14:27	#68
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,055 Thanked: 18 Times	I agree with the guys who said design is the deciding factor. In the end, it all comes down to how intelligently the car has been put together.
	() Thanks

13th July 2006, 10:26	#71
heelntoe BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: navi mumbai Posts: 240 Thanked: Once	i think cars need to have some weight i am not saying they have to be heavy but they should not be ultra light because in the real world there are much huger heavier vehicles that will be carying more momentum than a lighter car at similar speeds hence even if the small car has airbags and all it will still be tossed around causing injuries to the ouccupants even though they might survive. i think there were some images posted here about an accident between a beemer 7 series and an m800. i guess that even if they were wearing the seatbelts they would have hurt badly with airbags it might have been different but the 800 still gets thrown around. again that also depends on the structure and the build of the car. for example, a smart for two is probably smaller than the 800 yet still it manages the save the occupants in the case of an accident due to its crumple zones, airbags and other safety features. video of smart Vs. s-class http://paultan.org/archives/2006/06/...wo-crash-test/ Last edited by heelntoe : 13th July 2006 at 10:28.
	() Thanks

13th July 2006, 11:03	#72
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,390 Thanked: 4,096 Times View My Garage	Safety has nothing to do with Weight. But When you build-in Safety features in a modern car you are bound to push up the weight. The difference in Design thinking in Modern cars as against older ones is to protect the occupant rather than protect the car itself. Many a times a soft hood is a requirement for padestrian safety. However speaking of Indica, Tata has the only in-house crash testing facility in india and since Tata wants to gain entry into Europe it has safety firmly in its sights for al its automobiles intended to be marketed there. This safety is not only addition of features like airbags or telescopic steering but the Body structure itself. Most modern cars are built to deform to so that the energy of impact is absorbed. The main theory is if you deform the car , the insurance guys will take care of either repairing it or replacing it, but if something happens to the passengers it would live with them , no matter how well it has been treated and how well they have recovered.
	() Thanks

13th July 2006, 11:11	#73
shbhrao BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 60 Thanked: 0 Times	Hi just going through your discussions, thought this report may be informative. A study done by hte Lawrence National Lab. Berkley :Here's the link [FONT=Times New Roman]Download a PDF file of the complete copy of the report, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=#0033ff]"An Analysis of Traffic Deaths by Vehicle Type and Model"[/COLOR][/FONT]
	() Thanks

3rd July 2008, 15:00	#75
bblost Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 11,008 Thanked: 15,337 Times View My Garage	I have voted NO. If weight was the only criteria then I would be very safe. (but from whom?)
	() Thanks