Does more heavy mean more safe??

DCEite · 4th May 2006, 20:24

Let us settle this issue once and for all. Got the inspiration of this thread from here.. and from many more topics where the issue of safety is being discussed.

nitrous · 4th May 2006, 20:36

Generally,yes.

But,not necessarily.

Light-weight carbon fibre stuff can be pretty strong!

revharder · 4th May 2006, 20:51

safety doesn't comes from weight! until and unless your Maruti800 is as robust as a RoadRoller!

safety comes from various technicalities and complex things.
crumple zones are one such thing, besides that airbags and ABS etc comes into play for safety.

heavier vehicles have a tendency to go out of control when that is the foremost need!

F1 cars are not heavy at all and still they are pretty much safer than our normal cars. the crumple zone in its nose takes all the beating but saves the driver.

recently i saw an accident in which NHC had crashed into the rear wheels of a TATA407 while both were crossing a red light in night perpendicular to each other.
NHC hit 407's rear wheels so hard that they got separated from the chasis and whole truck skidded on the road and made big marks on road and landed onto the divider in the middle of the road. whereas the lighter, infact much lighter, NHC was on the road itself, in very same position of the crash and its whole bonnet crumpled inside and take whole beating, but saved the passengers. also its windscreen was intact!

so imho, heavy is not safe anymore. that was only in historic times when no one knew about such complex safety gadegets and norms.

DRC · 4th May 2006, 21:08

No way, More woeght means more Moment of inertia, means more energy while in motion. In an event of collision, or panic breaking, so much energy needs to be absorbed.

But looking at the otherway, safety add-ons and the more robust cabins need more metal and other materials, which make them heavy. and you need a bigger engine to take that wieght, ang bigger engine is heavier.. so goes on...

toy car · 4th May 2006, 21:19

i totally aggree with nitrous...!!! wall said mann.....!!

Mpower · 4th May 2006, 21:20

Yes, provided the mass has been utilised to build a stronger structure.

DCEite · 4th May 2006, 22:56

hmmm.. people voting for maybe also

RX135 · 5th May 2006, 00:40

Not always necessary, but if both cars are engineered similarly, then more metal should definitely add to the safety.

major · 5th May 2006, 00:57

Does more heavy, mean more safe?

Ans : Every thing that shines is not gold.

Cheers .... Major

ivor · 5th May 2006, 01:23

I agree with Revharder.

Rather than assume a vehicle is safe because of its kerb weight, buyers should look for independent and respected ratings (like EuroNCAP) to figure out how safe their car is.

But since EuroNCAP gives points for safety equipment like side and head airbags that are standard equipment on even hatches in Europe, but which are missing even in some high-end cars in India, there is a desperate need for a reputed Indian agency to award ratings for cars sold in India, based on tests.

Till then, a lot of folks will be fooled by the heavier=safer equation.

DaPilot · 5th May 2006, 02:02

I voted yes! assuming we are talking about cars outer body strenght and material used to build

It's simple drop a hammer or dead weight from a certain height on a fiber body and drop the same weight on a steel/metal body - result will speak for itself

Strong body = better impact resistance = more safe

On the other hand if the car has same outer body material and a heavier engine then i think the weight will have -ve impact... ie less safe

basilmabraham · 5th May 2006, 07:44

Not necessarily. It all comes down to the fact that how well the car is designed and the kind of material used. Consider the race cars (WRC) they try to keep it light, but i guess they are the safest cards around. The driver just walks out of accidents that could have been total wipe out in ordinary heavier cars.

karthik247 · 5th May 2006, 08:04

Completely agree with Nitrous..Carbon fibre stuff is amazing, much lighter and stonger than other materials used.

Its like' More expensive means more safe'

deepug · 5th May 2006, 09:17

According to me the safety also depends on how the safety features of the car is used.
Some case in points. The Ford Ikon crash reported in the forum only thing that saved the
front passengers were the seat belts. So even without having air bags , ABS and the works,
the basic safety feature like seat belts helped --
yeah exceptions are always there
Old crash of Princess Diana -- in one of the safest cars in the world, with ABS,
7 /8 AirBags all aroud -- didnt survive because
they didnt use the seatbelts -- the driver survived -- seat belts again.
So it's not whether the car is heavy or light, it is upto the drivers and passengers to define their safety.

goldie_malhotra · 5th May 2006, 09:57

heavy is safe is like saying quantity is all that matters, and quality plays no role ...

a heavy vehicle might provide you with more stability on road, or might protect you from minor dents or scratches, but of what use is that weight if it hinders you from making a last-minute ditch to prevent an oncoming accident ? - or if that heavy body transmits all the impact to the passengers inside and itself remains stable, while passengers are shaken up badly.

heavy is safe is a myth which should be done away with, and people should use other means like crash-ratings to judge the safety of a car.

View Poll Results: Does more heavy, mean more safe?
Yes	25	22.12%
No	59	52.21%
Maybe	29	25.66%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

4th May 2006, 20:24	#1
DCEite Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: NCR Posts: 3,417 Thanked: 2,559 Times	Does more heavy mean more safe?? Let us settle this issue once and for all. Got the inspiration of this thread from here.. and from many more topics where the issue of safety is being discussed.
	() Thanks

4th May 2006, 20:36	#2
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	Generally,yes. But,not necessarily. Light-weight carbon fibre stuff can be pretty strong!
	() Thanks

4th May 2006, 20:51	#3
revharder BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 460 Thanked: 56 Times	safety doesn't comes from weight! until and unless your Maruti800 is as robust as a RoadRoller! safety comes from various technicalities and complex things. crumple zones are one such thing, besides that airbags and ABS etc comes into play for safety. heavier vehicles have a tendency to go out of control when that is the foremost need! F1 cars are not heavy at all and still they are pretty much safer than our normal cars. the crumple zone in its nose takes all the beating but saves the driver. recently i saw an accident in which NHC had crashed into the rear wheels of a TATA407 while both were crossing a red light in night perpendicular to each other. NHC hit 407's rear wheels so hard that they got separated from the chasis and whole truck skidded on the road and made big marks on road and landed onto the divider in the middle of the road. whereas the lighter, infact much lighter, NHC was on the road itself, in very same position of the crash and its whole bonnet crumpled inside and take whole beating, but saved the passengers. also its windscreen was intact! so imho, heavy is not safe anymore. that was only in historic times when no one knew about such complex safety gadegets and norms.
	() Thanks

4th May 2006, 21:08	#4
DRC BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cockpit Posts: 911 Thanked: 64 Times View My Garage	No way, More woeght means more Moment of inertia, means more energy while in motion. In an event of collision, or panic breaking, so much energy needs to be absorbed. But looking at the otherway, safety add-ons and the more robust cabins need more metal and other materials, which make them heavy. and you need a bigger engine to take that wieght, ang bigger engine is heavier.. so goes on...
	() Thanks

4th May 2006, 21:19	#5
toy car BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: delhi Posts: 40 Thanked: 0 Times	i totally aggree with nitrous...!!! wall said mann.....!!
	() Thanks

4th May 2006, 21:20	#6
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,730 Times View My Garage	Yes, provided the mass has been utilised to build a stronger structure.
	() Thanks

4th May 2006, 22:56	#7
DCEite Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: NCR Posts: 3,417 Thanked: 2,559 Times	hmmm.. people voting for maybe also
	() Thanks

5th May 2006, 00:40	#8
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 75 Times	Not always necessary, but if both cars are engineered similarly, then more metal should definitely add to the safety.
	() Thanks

5th May 2006, 00:57	#9
major BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 53 Thanked: 0 Times	Does more heavy, mean more safe? Ans : Every thing that shines is not gold. Cheers .... Major
	() Thanks

5th May 2006, 01:23	#10
ivor BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 85 Thanked: 3 Times	I agree with Revharder. Rather than assume a vehicle is safe because of its kerb weight, buyers should look for independent and respected ratings (like EuroNCAP) to figure out how safe their car is. But since EuroNCAP gives points for safety equipment like side and head airbags that are standard equipment on even hatches in Europe, but which are missing even in some high-end cars in India, there is a desperate need for a reputed Indian agency to award ratings for cars sold in India, based on tests. Till then, a lot of folks will be fooled by the heavier=safer equation.
	() Thanks

5th May 2006, 02:02	#11
DaPilot BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Newport (JC), NJ - USA Posts: 187 Thanked: Once View My Garage	I voted yes! assuming we are talking about cars outer body strenght and material used to build It's simple drop a hammer or dead weight from a certain height on a fiber body and drop the same weight on a steel/metal body - result will speak for itself Strong body = better impact resistance = more safe On the other hand if the car has same outer body material and a heavier engine then i think the weight will have -ve impact... ie less safe
	() Thanks

5th May 2006, 07:44	#12
basilmabraham BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sydney/Cochin Posts: 772 Thanked: 76 Times View My Garage	Not necessarily. It all comes down to the fact that how well the car is designed and the kind of material used. Consider the race cars (WRC) they try to keep it light, but i guess they are the safest cards around. The driver just walks out of accidents that could have been total wipe out in ordinary heavier cars.
	() Thanks

5th May 2006, 08:04	#13
karthik247 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR, HYD Posts: 2,710 Thanked: 30 Times	Completely agree with Nitrous..Carbon fibre stuff is amazing, much lighter and stonger than other materials used. Its like' More expensive means more safe'
	() Thanks

5th May 2006, 09:17	#14
deepug BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 92 Thanked: 26 Times	According to me the safety also depends on how the safety features of the car is used. Some case in points. The Ford Ikon crash reported in the forum only thing that saved the front passengers were the seat belts. So even without having air bags , ABS and the works, the basic safety feature like seat belts helped -- yeah exceptions are always there Old crash of Princess Diana -- in one of the safest cars in the world, with ABS, 7 /8 AirBags all aroud -- didnt survive because they didnt use the seatbelts -- the driver survived -- seat belts again. So it's not whether the car is heavy or light, it is upto the drivers and passengers to define their safety.
	() Thanks

5th May 2006, 09:57	#15
goldie_malhotra BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 757 Thanked: 12 Times	heavy is safe is like saying quantity is all that matters, and quality plays no role ... a heavy vehicle might provide you with more stability on road, or might protect you from minor dents or scratches, but of what use is that weight if it hinders you from making a last-minute ditch to prevent an oncoming accident ? - or if that heavy body transmits all the impact to the passengers inside and itself remains stable, while passengers are shaken up badly. heavy is safe is a myth which should be done away with, and people should use other means like crash-ratings to judge the safety of a car.
	() Thanks