[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Sidjohri

Thanks Jeroen for highlighting various possibilities. I will ask them for concrete evidence indicating the need to get the head overhauled. They did mention about plugging the vehicle to their on-board diagnostics before arriving at the 'head overhaul' conclusion. Is there any way I can ask them for the data / analysis?



I will nevertheless insist that being a priority customer (as per MASS maybe since they have already extracted a handful from me over the years from servicing other Maruti cars in the family) they can take my case seriously and take one step at a time to rule out other minor / not so major issues. Cooling pump, as per them, is running fine with no leakage detected.

There isnt a specific code to indicate the cilinder head needs overhauling. But it would be good to check what codes come up. It might be the never rectified the original problem.

Yes, white smoke coming out of the exhaust can indicate water in the exhaust gasses, hence a cracked head. But you should also notice cooling liquid disappearing from the reservoir. Have a look with the engine running, do you see any bubles? Is there any muck/dirt floating on top?

Jeroen

[cryshnon]

Here is what is happening with me. This started during peak summer when the temperature in Delhi was touching 47 degree Celsius. During bumper to bumper traffic, the engine overheats and kept losing power. I had to shut off the AC and then the temperature used to start coming down. The car is a Zen Estilo black with no tinted glasses anywhere and therefore it is a solar cooking stove in direct sunlight. I took it to a reliable FNG and the guy diagnosed issues with the clutch and pressure plates because (his logic was understandable) the car had a tendency to overheat in lower gears and its biting point was becoming weaker. The parts were changed and the radiator flushed.

But no, the problem though considerably reduced, was still there in extremely high temperature. If I keep the ac on full blast at a traffic signal and leave the engine revving all the while, it begins to overheat as I begin to move forward at lower gears. I found some drops of engine oil spilt at the place where the vehicle was parked. Also, the car had developed a tendency to lose power after being driven for 10 kms. The dipstick showed higher than required levels of engine oil. I then used the syringe and ryle's tube method suggested by BHPians on a different thread.

Today the temperature was again quite high and I faced the problem once again. AC on full blast. Kept idling at a traffic light for a minute and then when I began moving forward, the car began overheating. I had to switch the ac off and then the temperature began coming down.

As far as the basic troubleshooting mentioned here, they are all fine. Thermal sensor is fine. Coolant levels are ok. Coolant reservoir cap doesn't pop out. Fan runs. Is it just that the vehicle is not powerful enough to be able to cool itself when most of the engine power is getting used in air-conditioning the solar cooker?

This issue though more prominent when on CNG though I have noticed it is also there while on petrol. I am yet to see if the issue still persists after I removed a considerable amount of engine oil.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by cryshnon

As far as the basic troubleshooting mentioned here, they are all fine. Thermal sensor is fine. Coolant levels are ok. Coolant reservoir cap doesn't pop out. Fan runs.

Hopefully there is no air lock in cooling system?!

Is the coolant : water ratio maintained correctly? Excess of any will create a hassle so please check.

Originally Posted by cryshnon

I am yet to see if the issue still persists after I removed a considerable amount of engine oil.

What is this? Didn't understand.

Can you please explain this point?

[CrackedHead]

Originally Posted by cryshnon

I took it to a reliable FNG and the guy diagnosed issues with the clutch and pressure plates because (his logic was understandable) the car had a tendency to overheat in lower gears and its biting point was becoming weaker. The parts were changed and the radiator flushed.

I have troubleshooted some weird overheating issues but this sounds like a scam to me. There is no way a failing clutch would cause overheating with a healthy cooling system. You need to troubleshoot this step by step.

1) Is there a loss of coolant ?
2) Does the fan switch on correctly ?
3) Is the fan running at the correct speed (if there it is a two speed fan)
4) Is there any evidence of a head gasket leak - this can cause overheating by causing coolant pipes to rupture and leak out

Would recommend that you take the car to a competent MASS.

[cryshnon]

Originally Posted by CrackedHead

I have troubleshooted some weird overheating issues but this sounds like a scam to me. There is no way a failing clutch would cause overheating with a healthy cooling system. You need to troubleshoot this step by step.

1) Is there a loss of coolant ?
2) Does the fan switch on correctly ?
3) Is the fan running at the correct speed (if there it is a two speed fan)
4) Is there any evidence of a head gasket leak - this can cause overheating by causing coolant pipes to rupture and leak out

Would recommend that you take the car to a competent MASS.

It isn't a scam. I can say that for certain. It could be a misdiagnosis. The way this vehicle is designed, the radiator fan starts running when the AC is on.
The old clutch plate and pressure plate was shown to me (the guy detached it in front of me after making me wait even though I wanted to simply go home). The flywheel had freeplay and the pressure plate which is supposed to be like a dome, was almost flat. So the clutch engagement effectively was happening only when it is near fully released. Due to this, I was having to accelerate more than normal in traffic. That was leading to overheating in the transmission as well as causing overload on the engine. Now the engine doesn't actually heat up all the way to the red mark but it almost goes close to it and I end up turning off the AC.
There is no coolant leak. The levels are fine. When I look inside the radiator cap, there is flow of coolant. Radiator flush has been performed. The exhaust fumes are colourless.
After getting the tasks done by this FNG, I found the vehicle to be much better in terms of transmission engagement and air conditioning. But my cause of concern is with the way it heats during extremely hot weather in heavy traffic. And this in particular happens ONLY if I keep the fan speed at 2 or higher and after driving over 15 kms AND when I end up at a jam packed area.
As for MASS in Ghaziabad. I am sure members residing here can back me when I say EVERY single authorised service centre here is just a scamming institution, be it Hyundai, Honda or Maruti. You tell them a minor problem, and they fleece you off at least 10k.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Hopefully there is no air lock in cooling system?!

Is the coolant : water ratio maintained correctly? Excess of any will create an hassle so please check.

What is this? Didn't understand.

Can you please explain this point?

Oh! I just noticed that I didn't elaborate on that point. So the thing is I got them to change engine oil (Mobil 1 Synthetic 5w30). But without actually waiting for a few minutes to ensure the oil completely drained out, the assistant quickly put the bolt back and refilled more then 3.5 litres of oil in the engine. I researched everywhere and found that excess engine oil can lead to frothing and poor heat dissipation. Additionally I could notice that a few drops of engine oil kept falling on the floor where the vehicle is parked. So I extracted about 400 ml of engine oil and then drove to work on a day when the temperature shot up well over 40 degrees. While on CNG, the old issue came back. I had to stall at a traffic signal (after having driven over 15 kms) for 2 minutes when I set the AC on full blast and as I started to inch ahead when the light turned green, the temperature needle began to move upwards. I am yet to see if this issue exists if I continue driving on petrol.
This issue was way more prominently present before radiator was flushed and the clutch plate was replaced. It used to happen even during evenings. But as of now, the problem only occurs far less frequently and only if I am constantly driving at AC kept at lowest temperature and with fan at high speeds at times such as 2 or 3 pm when the atmospheric temperature is the highest.
The only thing I am unhappy with how he handled the problem was when he said that there is NO NEED of changing low pressure filters of CNG and instead I should get an advancer attached to enable better pickup on CNG.

[Aroy]

Many overheating in stop-and-go traffic can be traced to a clogged radiator. Ether the tubes are blocked due to sludge or the fins are blocked by leaves and mud.

If your car is CNG then the problem is that CNG engines tend to produce less torque and have a tendency to overheat, you must have read about new DTC buses catching fire in this heat.

[vinit.merchant]

I once had a similar issue long back with the Santro.
It was later diagnosed that the fan isn't working at speeds it is supposed to. Got the motor and fan replaced, and all was well. But during that time, I had also noticed water/coolant level reducing frequently, which is not the same in your case.

But it is worth a look whether fan is operating at optimum speed.

[Ry_der]

Hi all!!
Please share your view on the following issue.

Some months back I have got my Accent serviced by a local(Read Prefered) mechanic of my area. As the car was low on coolant I asked him to top up it with the standard 'Green' coolant. Car is running absolutely fine till now but the colour of coolant is turned brown. What can be the problem? is it normal? My car is a factory fitted CNG one, if that explains anything.


P.S. The car never overheats, even in Ahmedabad B2B traffic.
Thanks

[hangover]

Originally Posted by Ry_der

Car is running absolutely fine till now but the colour of coolant is turned brown. What can be the problem? is it normal? My car is a factory fitted CNG one, if that explains anything.

Many reasons:

1. Rust within radiator box
2. Broken hose pipes or broken brazing in pipe joins
3. Wrong mix of coolant and distilled water
4. Non working water pump

In a hot area (say, Delhi) the suggestion is to use pure coolant without diluting it at all.

Cool areas like Bangalore can handle a 50:50 coolant and distilled water mix.

Distilled water means battery water. One must not (in fact, never ever) use tap water (or worse, bore-well water) to dilute the coolant.

I guess you could open the bottom drain plug, flush it out with a pressure gun with tap water (this one occasion only!) and see if THAT still rusts.

If the rust disappears, then you may drain out the whole thing and re-fill with 100% undiluted coolant and run the car for a few days.

Then take it from there.

[Ry_der]

Originally Posted by hangover

Many reasons:

1. Rust within radiator box
2. Broken hose pipes or broken brazing in pipe joins
3. Wrong mix of coolant and distilled water
4. Non working water pump

Thanks a lot for your well narrated reply.
Its just on time as I am planning to visit H.A.S.S. tommorrow for some minor checkups.


I remember my mechanic adding tap water while topping up coolant.

On waterpump point, won't the car overheat if the waterpump is not working? And also the coolent level in box also fluctuates. Are there still chances of waterpump gone kaput?

[cryshnon]

Note from Support: Post edited for readability.

Originally Posted by Ry_der

Car is running absolutely fine till now but the colour of coolant is turned brown.
Thanks

We depend upon unprofessional repair personnel for all the tasks and hence don't bother to check if they use distilled or tap water for flushing radiators. As a result, the radiator cap springs and the radiator pipes end up rusting due to tap water.
You can remove the radiator cap and press the rubber stoppers down to see if the spring mechanism is good. If it is so, then use an old toothbrush and scrub it will to remove all the rust that is stuck on it.

After that, drain the coolant completely by opening the knob below the front bumper. Fill it with tap water and run the vehicle for a few minutes. Drain again. Do this two to three times. Then fill it with distilled water only and some radiator flush fluid.

You can then drive down to a place where you intend to buy some coolant. Come back, flush out the water again. Do another round of filling tap water, running the engine for a few minutes and drain it out again. Opening the drain plug doesn't completely remove all the existing fluid. Hence you will have to flush it once with distilled water again to make the contaminated water as dilute as possible. Run the heater as well to ensure that the flushing fluid also cleans up the heating pipes. Finally fill it with coolant with the ideal mix.

Now the actual 'coolant' in the radiator is water. The colourful liquid additive is nothing but an alcoholic substance that helps prevent rusting and increasing boiling point of water to prevent vapourising. But given that the heat capacity of water is much higher, water is the actual coolant in a radiator. 50:50 is the ideal ratio that is recommended.

To check if the water pump is running, open the radiator cap and run the engine and see if the liquid appears to move. It won't flow like a river but may appear to shake a bit and overflow.

[Ravi Parwan]

I would like to add my own story of overheating experience here. It is quite different from the usual stories I have read on the forum and I want to provide the full context so it is gonna be a long story.

I own a 7 year old 2010 Beat LT petrol. The car has been run for the last 7 years by my dad strictly as a local run around (trips of 5-10 km total).We also own a swift dzire diesel and that is the car he loves to drive, as do I!!) So the beat had done less than 30K km in the last 7 odd years.

Recently I shifted jobs and need to daily drive to Noida from Faridabad (around 32 km one-way). I thought that since Chevrolet has shut shop, I would not get any decent valuation for the car so it is better I use it to get some value out of it. I thought to use it as my daily drive for a few days and if the fuel costs become exorbitant I would convert the car to CNG. I wanted to see what problems the car would throw up in prolonged usage after being used only for local trips of 5-10 km for the last 7 years. The car has been niggle free from the start except for the poor FE ( 10-12 kmpl against company claim of 17 kmpl when we bought her new). We have had her serviced once a year at the authorized service centre in Faridabad, Regent Motor, regardless of the mileage. There have been no major component changes on the car during the last 7 years, including the tyres, which I plan to change soon.

I expected the car to throw tantrums on being put into harsher use than she was used to. But surprisingly the car has held up well in the last 2 months of commuting from Faridabad to Noida. Those in Delhi- NCR will relate to the nightmare that is Kalindi Kunj. My car has been passing through that mess twice daily without complaints.

However, the inevitable happened and the AC gave up the ghost last month. I had gotten it topped up a couple of months ago as it had lost around 40% of gas (as per the FNG AC technician). Now the AC was giving the same symptoms of low cooling.

To forestall any major repairs heading my way, I got the evaporator changed with a new unit and the entire system given a once over by a very renowned AC mechanic in Faridabad. The 6K I spent were well worth it as for the first time, the AC in the beat was ‘Beat’ing the dzire!

But now is when the drama started to unfold. I have a OBD reader (ELM327) which I use on my long drives with the torque app on my phone. I usually track the FE and temperatures for the dzire. Since I was using the beat on a daily basis, I thought to bring over the reader and check the beat’s figures.

A couple of days ago, I was stuck in a jam on Mathura road around 9:30 PM. Ambient temperature was around 32-34 ⁰C and I was chilling in the AC. Out of boredom, I put up the Torque app and checked how the engine was doing. Normally I used to get a reading of between 90-95 ⁰C on the beat and around 82-85 ⁰C on the dzire.

I was shocked to see a temperature of 102⁰C for my car. I was surprised since this was quite high and the AC had not cut out at all. I switched off the AC and moved to the petrol pump just 200 m ahead. I stopped there, shut down the car (I hadn’t read the posts here, so ignorantly did that). Opened the hood and the fan had not started. Temperature reading was 108⁰C!

Surprisingly, the car was not displaying any signs of overheating, coolant was present in the right places in the right amounts, AC had not cut out and the car was behaving perfectly normal (Beat only has a temperature warning light and no dial). However, the fan was not operating and only came on with the AC.

Still as a precaution, I used tap water to splash the radiator and decided to move ahead to my home which was about 15 km away. I kept an eye on the torque app to monitor the temp. Due to the wait and splashing of water, the temperature had come down to 102⁰C. As I climbed the badarpur flyover, I was relieved to see the temperature falling down to around 97⁰C. The gods decided to help me and there was a brief shower, which cooled the car down to 93⁰C. I was able to cruise at 70-80 kmph all the way home with the temperature not going beyond 98⁰C, probably since I was cruising without any traffic on wet roads at night.

Now, the very next day, I sent my dad to the AC mechanic with the car, thinking he might have removed some sensor to make the AC performance better. I explained to him the entire situation above and he promised to check the system in the presence of my dad. After half an hour, I got a call from my dad saying that there was nothing wrong with the car and that the fan was coming on without the AC once the car reached optimal temp.

Today I brought the car which had been declared trouble free by the technician on my route. I kept an eye out on the temperature reading and stopping frequently to see if the fan had come on. The temperature continued to climb till 102⁰C at which point the fan kicked in without the AC. Once I confirmed that the fan was coming on, I continued my drive with the AC on. The temperature remained between 92-98⁰C.

Now my question is this. I am using the same setup for OBD in two cars, a diesel dzire and a petrol beat. I can understand a couple of degree difference between the two cars owing to different fuel and manufacturer’s calibration. But how to explain the beat working perfectly at 108⁰C in July’s humid weather while the dzire has never ever gone beyond 95⁰C even in the harshest of weathers.

[honeybee]

Sensor input could be wrong, manufacturer calibration could be different. If the car is normal, why fret over it?

[Aroy]

Engines are supposed to be more efficient at higher temperatures. That is why there is the coolant instead of water as in older days. The coolant boils at a much higher temperature. HEre is an extract from this articel
https://hellafunctional.com/?p=629

Most engines operate at around 90-105C (190-220F), which is very close to the boiling point of this water/coolant mix. Thankfully, there is something else that can be done besides varying the mix- increase the pressure. This is the important part, and the reason why cars aren’t constantly overheating and boiling over. Increasing pressure increases the boiling point of a liquid. For water, it works out to about 2.5 extra degrees F per psi. So if you have 10psi of extra pressure, water will boil at 237f instead of 212. Go up to 15psi, which is normal for a car, and straight water boils at around 121C (250F). This is above the normal operating temperature of most engines so there actually isn’t much reason to worry about the composition of our coolant in a pressurized system.

So 105 degrees should be fine as long as the collant does not boil.

[wishnipon]

Hi all,

The following happened to a friend who owns a Alto K10: My Alto K10 had a radiator damage after hitting a kid goat on the highway. I did not realize it then. 20-25 km after the impact, I noticed the engine overheating warning. Then I stopped and discovered radiator leakage. Green colored coolant that had leaked was visible on the road below the radiator. The engine was very hot. Although coolant in the white plastic tank was above the FULL mark, I topped it with distilled water, started car with AC turned off and drove at 40-50 kmph at 5th gear for another 20 km to reach a local mechanic - stopping twice for fifteen minutes to let the engine cool a bit on the way. He sealed it with m-seal and filled up the radiator with plain water (not coolant) and I drove another 80 km at 50-60 kmph to reach home. On the way back, there was no further warning, but when I returned home I found the engine very hot. Next morning, I deposited the car to MASS.

MASS has replaced front grille, radiator, condenser and changed AC gas but they have not inspected engine. I think I will flush the engine and change the engine oil. But what else can I do or ask MASS to do to check the engine health?