[Aroy]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

Hi Sran,

Thanks for the explanation. However, as far as I can tell, the battery is holding charge and I am able to crank the engine at least 5 to 6 times but the car refuses to start. If the battery was not holding the charge then surely I would not be able to crank the car?

In fact, after leaving it overnight on the roadside, it started at the first touch the next morning. Not the sign of a car battery that is not charging properly surely?

What do you think?

Regards,
SS

If the starter can crank, battery is not the issue. I suspect "vapour lock" as the car misbehaves only after being driven for some distance.

Vapour lock happens when the vent on the fuel lid is clogged, hence seals the fuel tank and creates a vacuum that prevents the fuel flow from the tank to the engine. There is a simple test - when the car refuses to start, open the fuel filler lid and take the cap off. If the engine starts it is clogged fuel cap. If not there is some issue with the fuel pump or the fuel line or dirt in the fuel delivery line. That will require a thorough check.

[suzuki san]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

I think it is the starter motor.

Get a servicing done to it. Anyways no harm in doing it as the ODO is 105K kms, whether that is the culprit or not.

Hi Balenoed,

Thanks for the suggestion.

Full service of 100K Kms was carried out 4 months ago when odo reading was 103,000. Spark plugs were changed, Injectors and throttle body cleaned. Fuel filter changed. All shock absorbers were changed and a lot of other stuff was done. All engine mounts changed. All wheel bearings and hubs changed. The bill was 70K total!! Now the Odo reading is just over 105,000 Kms.
The car did Bombay to Poona to Panchgani, back to Poona and then Poona to Goa without any problem. This issue has started in Goa in the last 2 weeks.


Regards,
SS

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

..This issue has started in Goa in the last 2 weeks.

Adulterated fuel at some point is a suspect. When was the last time the fuel tank was cleaned? The pump has a gauze filter that may be partially blocked. Check the fuel lines too.

[balenoed_]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

I think it is the starter motor.

Get a servicing done to it.

Originally Posted by suzuki san

Hi Balenoed,

Thanks for the suggestion.

Full service of 100K Kms was carried out 4 months ago

By servicing, I meant starter motor servicing.

[suzuki san]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Adulterated fuel at some point is a suspect. When was the last time the fuel tank was cleaned? The pump has a gauze filter that may be partially blocked. Check the fuel lines too.

Thanks Aroy & R2D2.

If the fuel was adulterated, then the car should not start at all na? In the morning it starts immediately. It's only after running for 5 to 10 kms and then lying for an hour or two that it does not start.

I think Aroy might have a valid point. I remember reading about this opening of the fuel filler cap. Didn't try it yet. The car is now at a MASS so I will pass on both your suggestions to them. Car has been there 24 hours and nothing has been found yet.

Regards,
SS

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

If the fuel was adulterated, then the car should not start at all na? In the morning it starts immediately. It's only after running for 5 to 10 kms and then lying for an hour or two that it does not start..

Adulterated fuel does not necessarily mean the car will not start. Depending on the level of adulteration it can run but not optimally. Cars not starting, sudden engine cut offs can be caused by ignition issues as well. Other than the plugs that were replaced I assume they have checked the HT coils or igniters and the timing system as the case may be. I would also suggest taking a look at the fuel pump. Not a complicated check it is accessible in most cars by removing the back seat and also checking fuel delivery output rates, fuel pressure. All this information is available to the ASC via workshop manuals. This is an old car and problem is intermittent so you need to check via a process of elimination.

I think Aroy might have a valid point. I remember reading about this opening of the fuel filler cap.

Indeed he has a point. Vapour lock though rare can occur. It's a simple test as he has outlined in his post.

[Sran]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

The car is now at a MASS so I will pass on both your suggestions to them. Car has been there 24 hours and nothing has been found yet.

Regards,
SS

Any update regarding the problem.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

Hi Sran,

Thanks for the explanation. However, as far as I can tell, the battery is holding charge and I am able to crank the engine at least 5 to 6 times but the car refuses to start. If the battery was not holding the charge then surely I would not be able to crank the car?

I

Is it cranking fast enough? Starter motors can suffer from heat soak. They draw much more current when they are warm, I.e. after the car has driven. When they draw a higher current, that puts a higher load on the battery and the voltage drops. When the voltage at the ECU drops below about 11V the car will not start. Wait when everything cools down and everything is fine.

If the above is not the case, I would also consider checking the coil and the crankshaft position sensor. Sort of similar behaviour when they get old they might start playing up when warm.

Good luck
Jeroen

[suzuki san]

Originally Posted by Sran

Any update regarding the problem.

Hi Sran,

The car was at MASS for 5 days. During this time they started and stopped it numerous times. It never faltered even once. They took it out for short drives, they took it out for a long drive. No starting problem at all. They kept the car in the sun and in the shade. No starting problems. They tried early morning and late evening. No problems. They did a scan. Nothing found. They cleaned all spark plugs, checked fuel filter, checked fuel pump gauze filter, checked all relays. Everything was O.K. Finally they brought the car back and so far it has been O.K.

I really don't know what the issue was and neither do MASS.

Let's hope it does not happen again.

Cheers,
SS

P.S. Jeroen, Thanks for your inputs. That point about the starter motor has been noted in case this issue crops up again.

[suzuki san]

Hi Guys,

As expected, the starting problem has appeared again on my SX4.
The car has not been used for the last 4 to 5 days and today refused to start.
Engine is cranking but car nt starting. One thing I checked was the fuel filler cap. Opened it and then closed again. No luck. I checked all the relays in the fuse box and pushed them in tight but still no luck. I did however notice that the Yellow CEL did not come on when the key was in "Acc" position but engine not yet turned. I was told by one of the several mechanics / electricians I have dealt with over the past few weeks that the CEL MUST be ON prior to starting else the car will not start. All other dashboard tell tale lights were on as normal - the Red ones and the Yellow ones.

I am going to call Maruti first thing in the morning and hope they can resolve this issue.

Meanwhile, if anyone can come up with any suggestions as to why the CEL is not indicating or any other ideas as to why the car is not starting, I would be much obliged.

Regards,
SS

[manavdotcom]

My 11 y/o SX4 has exact same problem, however the Immobilizer light blinks once the ignition is switched on.Initially they changed the relays , then immobillizer antenna showed defective in scan. But problem resurfaced after few days. Then they suspected key.I told them,, keep the car with you and monitor. Finally they are saying motherboard is bad.I had a new battery, starter motor failed and replaced in last one month.And you can't imagine where all I got stranded due to this starting problem in last 2 weeks ! I have spoken to MASS people in last one month so much which i never spoke in last 10 years also.

Fingers crossed..Motherboard has to be arranged from Gurgaon and I hope that finally solves the problem. At least 4 places MASS people have attended the problem and I wrote multiple mails to Maruti . At least they respond immediately.

[balenoed_]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

By servicing, I meant starter motor servicing.

Originally Posted by suzuki san

As expected, the starting problem has appeared again on my SX4.

Did you get the starter motor serviced?

[suzuki san]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

Did you get the starter motor serviced?

Hi Balenoed,

MASS say they checked the starter motor when it was with them for 4 days and they say it is in perfect condition.

Right now, the MASS break down team have just left.
They have not been able to start the car and have given up after 1 hour.
They say the Suzuki OBD scanner is also not getting a signal now so they can't detect the problem.
They checked all the relays in the bonnet.
Tried jumpstarting with another battery. Nothing....Car is cranking fine but refusing to start.
They have told me to tow the car to their garage which I am trying to arrange now.

At least this happened in front of them and they have now finally acknowledged that there is a problem with the car.

The "Check Engine Light" or "Malfunction Indicator" Light is still not coming on prior to starting.

I have called another local electrician to have a look at the car before towing it to MASS.

Regards,
SS

[manavdotcom]

SS- I would suggest, make a video of the dashboard depicting starting problem. In my case, car did start after overnight parking when I called Maruti service.Next time when it refused to start, I made a video and sent to all concerned and with that they could identify the issue with immobilizer.

Just before you tow, try starting with spare key also.

[suzuki san]

Hi Manavdotcom,

I actually did make a video and sent it to the MASS SA. However, it did not help. The MASS break down team could not identify the fault.

Once they left, I called in an independent electrician. After trying everything possible for more than an hour, he finally gave up but said that the ECM was faulty. He is 90% sure it is an ECM problem.

The MASS guys had also mentioned this but at the same time said an ECM failure was highly unlikely.

So, I got the car towed to the nearest MASS and we will see what happens in the morning.

By the way the CEL is not coming on at all which leads them to believe it is an ECM issue. Cost of a new ECM is 10K.

Regards,
SS