[arjun18]

It might not have struck those lazy mechanics that it might be a fork centralization issue or a coupling rubbing against it. Tell them your theory and see if it lights a bulb on them. I know the production line head of Tata motors pune (visiting faculty in my college :P), pm me your contacts if you want me to pass on the issue to him. I'm sure he'll be able to pull some strings.

[sanyal779]

Good day Sirs,

I would like to share a related experience. We have a 2006 Ford Fiesta Diesel which we bought 2nd Hand in 2009 with 25K on the odometer. So far she has done upto about 51K with us, The problem with its gear is that, with the vehicle in motion one can not downshift from 2nd to 1st gear,no matter what. I have learned to live with it somehow and need to tell every new driver. All the garrages including the Ford workshop discourages me telling that it is a small issue and not worth spending 15/20 thousand to open and inspect. Sometimes though this becomes a little annoying at the crowded Kolkata roads as the vehicle stops at very slow speeds or I need to keep the revs a little higher. I wonder what might cause this in an otherwise good car.

Best regards
S.Sanyal

[amit_purohit20]

I have a VISTA TDI March 2009 model. It has only covered 18k kms and till now had been niggle free except some irritating vibration from the Gear lever and random clashing while engaging 1st gear. I had shown to TATA ASS and they told me I am engaging 1st gear in higher speed and not disengaging the clutch fully. As the problem was not severe I also believed them and just as the extended warranty got over gearbox problems have resurfaced.
1st gear was getting harder day by day to engage and its engaging speeds started coming down from 15kmph (initially) to 10kmph and now its down to 0.5 kmph or just before standstill.

Only 1st gear has a problem, rest other gears shift smoothly without any issue whatsover. 1st gear also engages without any problem if the vehicle is at standstill but not at any other speed. Don't you think 1st gear not engaging except standstill can be a problem while driving in ghats? Do you recommend me to go for a gearbox overhaul or not for this issue? How much would it cost?

I fully doubt the 1st-2nd gear double-cone synchro and the synchro centralization is to blame. If I am lucky it can be just a problem with the Shifter cables but then the shifting has more to do with vehicle speed and only one gear.

Anyone of you have faced this problem. Your inputs please.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by amit_purohit20

I fully doubt the 1st-2nd gear double-cone synchro and the synchro centralization is to blame. If I am lucky it can be just a problem with the Shifter cables but then the shifting has more to do with vehicle speed and only one gear.

Anyone of you have faced this problem. Your inputs please.

Why do you doubt it's the synchronizer? Everything points to it being at fault here.
You're out of warranty, yeah? Get it fixed outside of Tata then.

[amit_purohit20]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Why do you doubt it's the synchronizer? Everything points to it being at fault here.
You're out of warranty, yeah? Get it fixed outside of Tata then.

I had taken the car last week to Srinivasa Auto, Hadapsar authorized TATA ASS. The garage owner recognized me and offered to do a test drive. He tried to engage the first gear and it was hard but he said its ok.
We took the car on a Hill where it could be driven only on 1st gear and we did shifting from 2nd to 1st and again 2nd and I was able to re create the synchro clashing noise.
The mechanic put his hand behind the left front wheel of the car and adjusted the clutch pedal free play.

Effect: Clashing has stopped, 1st gear can be shifted even at 30 kmph although it takes its own time to synchronize.

Fault: Excessive clutch pedal free play. But this setting came from company! and I am sure this excessive clutch pedal free play has already taken its toll on the synchronizer to some extent. As of now the 1st gear has no problem and also 2nd gear has become smooth.

Due to the excessive clutch pedal free play the clutch was not disengaging properly causing the synchronizer rings to clash and not shift while in motion.

I was charged zero rupees for setting the clutch pedal free play and was saved off a costly Gearbox Overhaul affair.

Well just for records, it costs 5k to replace a single double cone synchronizer in TATA ASS. Also from the old Indica spare parts list available on team-bhp, I could make out that the double cone synchro should cost somehwere about 2-3k INR. The excel is an old one and it shows the cost of "Assembly double cone synchro" as 1600 Rs.

[sdp1975]

Gearshift is hard with engine turned on, but smooth if the engine is turned off - the car being stationary in both cases. This should rule out any problems with the gear cables. There's also a screeching noise engaging reverse.

Where could the problem be ? The car is a Punto MJD( hydraulic clutch ) with 79K on the odo. There's no slippage. I've showed it at FASS and a FNG - they tell me that a clutch change is needed, but I'm not sure if they're correct.

[blackstallion76]

Great to see others also faced the hard gear shift issue.
Mine is Punto 1.3 MJD done 51000kms with stock clutch.
Lately, I am facing below issues
1) Clutch fully depressed, 1st gear slots but with minor hinderance
2) Other gears slots perfectly fine with clutch fully depressed
3) Clutch is smooth/spongy type. No hard at all
4) No issues of reverse gear/no clutch slipping
5) Out of 1 week drive (250kms) i faced 3 instances of grinding noise in 3rd and reverse gear

I checked with FASS and independent mechanics. They sprayed some lubricant in engine bay.
I am not facing hard difficulty, but kind of sensitive of hard gears. Its like 10-15% occurrence during my daily drive.

[blackstallion76]

Friends, Any inputs would be helpful please.

Originally Posted by blackstallion76

Great to see others also faced the hard gear shift issue.
Mine is Punto 1.3 MJD done 51000kms with stock clutch.
Lately, I am facing below issues
1) Clutch fully depressed, 1st gear slots but with minor hinderance
2) Other gears slots perfectly fine with clutch fully depressed
3) Clutch is smooth/spongy type. No hard at all
4) No issues of reverse gear/no clutch slipping
5) Out of 1 week drive (250kms) i faced 3 instances of grinding noise in 3rd and reverse gear

I checked with FASS and independent mechanics. They sprayed some lubricant in engine bay.
I am not facing hard difficulty, but kind of sensitive of hard gears. Its like 10-15% occurrence during my daily drive.

[handsome_guy17]

Before I must scrap my cherished Duster (2016 model RXZ 110), it’d be appropriate to share a horrible technical problem my car has developed of late, prompting me to take this painful decision. After running from all pillars to posts and finding that the top-rated mechanics of the town including the showroom guys, run out of ideas, I am posting my harrowing tale.
I bought this car in 2016 and it has since done 92,000 kms without any known issues, except regular services and minor repairs. In November 2020, I did a long trip to Hyderabad and felt that clutch had become very hard. It was also shuddering when engaged in the first gear. Besides, slow acceleration and low mileage were pointing to the aging clutch. So, after coming back home, I got it checked. My mistake, if at all it was one, was I didn’t go to Renault showroom but chose instead my go-to mechanic who suggested that clutch system had worn out and needed replacement. Going by his word, I replaced the following clutch components:
1. Clutch plates and pressure plates @ Rs. 14000
2. Release bearing @ Rs. 5000
After three days, the car came home. Everything looked fine and the clutch pedal was much smoother than before. Happy that issue was resolved, I got back to driving it again. Two days later, I felt the clutch had become too soft and its free play was substantially more than what my stock clutch had. Soon, I experienced hard gear shifting. The vehicle refused to shift into first and reverse. I ran to my mechanic and he explained the problem could be due to hydraulics and recommended replacing the slave cylinder. That done, I drove for a day without any issues but the very next day, the same issue surfaced. The clutch had become spongy and shifting gears was a sweating exercise.
By now I had lost faith in my mechanic’s ability to figure out the problem. I then approached the Renault showroom and got the car inspected by their experts. The first thing they told me was the mechanic who had changed the clutch system had messed up with it. They opened the gearbox and found that the release bearing I had replaced was junk as it wasn’t an original part recommended by the company. That meant spending Rs. 5000 more on what I had already spent two days back. Hitting the dead end, I had but to accept whatever they suggested. The job was done and vehicle returned.
Much to my misfortune, the problem resurfaced. However, this time around since I had warranty on the parts that shielded me against paying again for the same job, I went back to the showroom and showed them the issue. Their reinspection revealed that the slave cylinder that my mechanic had earlier changed was also not original part, therefore, need to be scrapped. It meant Rs. 4000 more for a part I had just changed. I agreed on an assurance that it would resolve my issue once and for all. Having now got a brand-new cylinder from the showroom, I went on a trip to Pune. The clutch, however, remained soft and spongy and my gut feeling said the problem wasn’t gone. My worst fears came true when I got stuck in stop-and-go traffic in Pune even as the car would not shift into first gear. The car thereafter turned into a virtual gym with every gear calling for a weight-lifting effort. If I reached home safely on that trip, it was the Almighty who carried me. Next day, I went straight to the showroom, and lo and behold, the guys there tell me that the clutch plates and pressure plates I had changed outside were not okay and the problem was caused due to their malfunctioning. That implied paying Rs. 15000 more.
I had run out patience as well as money. I couldn’t use the car in that condition and not getting it fixed meant scrapping it. So, I went ahead and replaced the clutch plates and pressure plates. By now, the entire clutch assembly had been changed twice. Assuming I had incurred so much loss already, it would not matter if I put in Rs. 3000 more to change the hydraulic pipe that connects the release bearing to slave cylinder in case that was the culprit.
Having been through all that last night, I came home relieved only to be disappointed next morning. Starting for the office, try as hard as I might, I could not shift the car in reverse gear while attempting to move out of my parking space. As I got down with a helpless feeling, I thought time had come to say goodbye to her. Tears welled up in my eyes. I did not want to lose my reliable companion who always accompanied me through thick and thin loyally as ever. I recalled those happier times on highways when I would push her to 150 km/hr., she would respond with such enthusiastic revs. But – and there is always that but – all relationships must come to an end. My only regret is, it is happening too early with my lovely buddy.

[scorpian]

Have you tried bleeding the clutch system? If not I would do this and do it really really well.
Also have you checked the shifter cables? Atleast in my case if they turn even a little at the pivot point I can't shift certain gears in my sx4 ddis.

[handsome_guy17]

Originally Posted by scorpian

Have you tried bleeding the clutch system? If not I would do this and do it really really well.
Also have you checked the shifter cables? Atleast in my case if they turn even a little at the pivot point I can't shift certain gears in my sx4 ddis.

Yes, the mechanics said they did it, although I am not sure how exactly they went about it. Duster comes with a self-adjusting hydraulic clutch that precludes any adjustments. I am still dead sure that the problem lies with hydraulic system in the clutch that mechanics are unable to identify.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by scorpian

Have you tried bleeding the clutch system? If not I would do this and do it really really well.

Originally Posted by handsome_guy17

Yes, the mechanics said they did it, although I am not sure how exactly they went about it. Duster comes with a self-adjusting hydraulic clutch that precludes any adjustments. I am still dead sure that the problem lies with hydraulic system in the clutch that mechanics are unable to identify.

I agree with scorpian, bleed the clutch system really well. Find a reputed mechanic in your area who has good reviews from the people you trust.

Have you checked the master cylinder? Are there any leaks around your master cylinder or any rust? What’s your fluid level?

Have a read through these as it will help you better understand the workings of the clutch -

https://cartreatments.com/manual-tra...hard-to-shift/

https://forums.beyond.ca/archive/ind.../t-293221.html

Calm down, there’s no need to junk an otherwise perfectly running vehicle just because of a bad diagnosis/shoddy repair.

If you have the patience & skill, go back to your original mechanic & work with him until you pinpoint the problem.

Replacing parts without a thorough diagnosis first, is a good way to throw away your money, which is what the ASC is doing to you (with the added fear mongering of non genuine parts).

I hope when you first replaced the clutch, the mechanic used a complete clutch replacement kit, which comes with all the various parts which need to be replaced. Replacing only a few parts of the clutch is also a good way to suffer your problems. That’s why it’s called a clutch overhaul, because the kit comes with a lot of new parts.

Read the above links, re do the diagnosis, and then get back here if your problem is still unresolved.

Good luck & don’t throw out the baby with the bath water!

[handsome_guy17]

Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze

I agree with scorpian, bleed the clutch system really well. Find a reputed mechanic in your area who has good reviews from the people you trust.

Have you checked the master cylinder? Are there any leaks around your master cylinder or any rust? What’s your fluid level?

Have a read through these as it will help you better understand the workings of the clutch -

https://cartreatments.com/manual-tra...hard-to-shift/

https://forums.beyond.ca/archive/ind.../t-293221.html

Calm down, there’s no need to junk an otherwise perfectly running vehicle just because of a bad diagnosis/shoddy repair.

If you have the patience & skill, go back to your original mechanic & work with him until you pinpoint the problem.

Replacing parts without a thorough diagnosis first, is a good way to throw away your money, which is what the ASC is doing to you (with the added fear mongering of non genuine parts).

I hope when you first replaced the clutch, the mechanic used a complete clutch replacement kit, which comes with all the various parts which need to be replaced. Replacing only a few parts of the clutch is also a good way to suffer your problems. That’s why it’s called a clutch overhaul, because the kit comes with a lot of new parts.

Read the above links, re do the diagnosis, and then get back here if your problem is still unresolved.

Good luck & don’t throw out the baby with the bath water!

Thanks bro for your encouraging words. I have sent the car back to the showroom with a warning that I won't take its delivery until they have fully repaired it. Will bring your suggestions to their notice today and will also make it clear I am not going to pay them

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by handsome_guy17

Thanks bro for your encouraging words. I have sent the car back to the showroom with a warning that I won't take its delivery until they have fully repaired it. Will bring your suggestions to their notice today and will also make it clear I am not going to pay them

Since the clutch plates have been changed and the slave cylinder too but then the pedal still feels spongy, there could be two issues I feel:

1. Air in the clutch lines - Needs to be bled thoroughly;
   
   
2. Master cylinder seals damaged - Needs replacement as a whole

Get the clutch lines bled first and if that doesn't help, get the master cylinder changed. That should solve the pedal feel.

[handsome_guy17]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Since the clutch plates have been changed and the slave cylinder too but then the pedal still feels spongy, there could be two issues I feel:

1. Air in the clutch lines - Needs to be bled thoroughly;
   
   
2. Master cylinder seals damaged - Needs replacement as a whole

Get the clutch lines bled first and if that doesn't help, get the master cylinder changed. That should solve the pedal feel.

Even I was thinking along the same lines but the mechanics at showroom had different ideas - to go on changing the parts