[shankar.balan]

I wish to re- resurrect this ancient history thread. Specifically because of my present daily driver car.

I have driven lots of AT cars abroad but last Nov 2019 was the first time I have ever actually owned one - the second hand Mini Cooper S that I bought from my friendly neighbourhood Doctor. Am not counting the AT Glanza That I bought for my Folks in this.

Now, BMW (Arguably the Gods of motoring!) tells us that ATF is a lifetime fluid.

Sounds good. But doesn’t sound quite right.

Because;

In the world of Manual Transmission, one is advised to change one’s Gearbox oil once every now and then.

In the Gypsy it is supposed to be changed once every 10K kms or similar. (Attached is the gearbox oil grade and change recommendation from Maruti)
In the Manual Gearbox Yeti, I changed it as per the time interval, once every 4 years.

So why should it be any different in AT vehicles? I mean ANY oil/ fluid, is likely to undergo loss in viscosity and/ or degeneration with advancing age!

Now my Mini Cooper is 8 years old this August.

It has hardly hit 38000kms.

BMW defines “Life” as 4 years OR 60,000 miles - which is approx 100,000 kms.

I watch a lot of car stuff on YouTube - especially Scotty Kilmer the Mechanic on cars and I tend to believe what he says.

I also do significant research on things I dont know about, such as ATF Fluid and frequency of change and what other things need to be changed along with it and so on.

This is what I have found. And this is why I am going to get this job done quite quickly. Irrespective.

I have ordered all the parts and am assembling them so that I can go at one shot to the Garage and fix this.

So here goes and I do hope the readers here, will find it useful.

I am attaching The following;
1. a simple And superbly clear and logical ATF Change Write up specific to the Mini Cooper S 2012 R56 model which uses the AISIN sourced AT Gearbox.
2.A link to Scotty Kilmer’s YouTube Story about ATF -

https://youtu.be/RuNNqh8-jkw

3. A link to Mini Mania (which is a website In the US from where I buy parts now and then) - https://www.minimania.com/
4. A few Pictures of The actual “Child Parts” which are needed For ATF change on the Mini Cooper S 2012 R56 model.
5. The correct ATF Fluid for the Mini Cooper S 2012 R56Model. (JWS 3309)

These child parts, like drain plugs, filters, drain plugs seals and all, our dear BMW INDIA does not sell or will not even procure for you even if you pay them.

Indeed however illogical it may sound, Navnit Motors BMW Bangalore said they have NOT received such requests as I made.

Apparently people wanting to change their ATF is not a common thing!

And they said they ve changed ATF only a few times and then also in the case of some 12-14 year old cars!

And then, they’ve only changed the ATF Fluid and NOT the other things like the Filter and the gaskets and all.

Their SOP just says (apparently) in the event of an issue ju t swap the transmission for a new one!

This really sounds totally weird and illogical to me!

I do hope this whole little note helps others on the Forum and elsewhere.

And I am happy to share the pictures and videos of the ATF Change when I get it done.

[vigsom]

^^ Spot on.

CVT fluid needs to be replaced much more frequently than transmission fluid in torque converter ATs.

1. Honda recommends a CVT fluid change every 40k kms



2. As per your post, the Baleno CVT needs it every 60k kms

In contrast, Toyota 4 speed ATs do not require transmission fluid change for life under normal driving conditions.

This applies to the old Corolla, the 2008-11 Altis, the Fortuner AT. Not sure about the 2016 and later Crystas and Fortuners though











Suzuki recommends transmission fluid change on their 4-speed torque converter ATs only every 11 years / 1,65,000kms.

Could someone add the maintenance schedule of the newer Toyotas here please?

[vigsom]

^^ I had a look at the Owner's Manual of an Innova Crysta.

The above maintenance schedule for automatic transmission fluid applies to the Crysta too; which means automatic transmission fluid replacement every 80k kms under severe driving conditions, else no replacement required for life.

What is the recommended change interval for fluid in the super CVT in the later Altis?

[landcruiser123]

This "lifetime" transmission fluid is a load of hot air. All transmissions wear out - with the appropriate fluid changes, they can last a long time.

Originally Posted by vigsom

which means automatic transmission fluid replacement every 80k kms under severe driving conditions, else no replacement required for life.

What is the recommended change interval for fluid in the super CVT in the later Altis?

Even if you drive very conservatively, I'd suggest changing the fluid on an Innova Crysta at 8 years or 80k km whichever comes earlier. Transmission fluid is cheap, any potential repairs can be super expensive.

For the Altis CVT, refer your owners manual. Or the rule of thumb will be every 50k kms.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by vigsom

What is the recommended change interval for fluid in the super CVT in the later Altis?

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

This "lifetime" transmission fluid is a load of hot air. All transmissions wear out - with the appropriate fluid changes, they can last a long time.

Transmission fluid is cheap, any potential repairs can be super expensive.

Or the rule of thumb will be every 50k kms.

+1

There is no such thing as a ‘lifetime’ fluid, if you plan to keep your vehicle for a long time.

Even Nissan recommends changing the automatic transmission fluid every 40,000kms which I religiously follow at my FNG. Together with changing engine oil & filter every 5,000kms, the car has been extremely reliable even at 168,000kms.

Don’t fall for the ‘lifetime fluid’ gimmick, if you value peace of mind after the warranty expires. Change it (never flush) every 40-50,000kms using ONLY the OE transmission fluid recommended by the manufacturer. Never use the wrong/random fluid or it can ruin the transmission. Oil is cheap, engines/transmissions are costly!

[rayjaycleoful]

Does anyone know about 1st Gen Creta torque converter?
I think the manual says sealed for life but that definitely can't be applicable to Indian scenarios.

[Researcher]

Originally Posted by vigsom

As per your post, the Baleno CVT needs it every 60k kms---Suzuki recommends transmission fluid change on their 4-speed torque converter ATs only every 11 years / 1,65,000kms.

Maruti recommends to inspect at every 30k/3 year interval and there is no such communication for replacement of fluid. When I asked about the replacement of CVT fluid during the 20k/2 year service of our 9.2k run Baleno CVT last month, no one at the service centre had any idea about it and were insisting on changing in the 20k/2 year interval, but their lack of knowledge made me think to wait a year. I doubt they will be able to repair anything in case of an issue with the automatic transmission.

What I found from various other sources that, in case of CVTs, one must measure the quantity of the fluid that was drained and must fill the exact quantity of fresh fluid back (not the entire recommended quantity of 5.7 litres for Baleno) before checking the level as CVTs are very sensitive to both quantity and quality of fluids. Below are the pics of the maintenance schedule and fluid quantities of the Baleno.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

This "lifetime" transmission fluid is a load of hot air.

Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze

Don’t fall for the ‘lifetime fluid’ gimmick, if you value peace of mind after the warranty expires---Oil is cheap, engines/transmissions are costly!

Both of your statements echo the words of the gentleman in landcruiser123's profile picture, which I completely agree with. Additionally I may add one more line inspired from him, "For a manufacturer, the words 'lifetime of a vehicle' means 'till the end of the warranty period' after which they will charge quite a lot to get the transmission repaired or replaced." Wish I find someone as experienced and knowledgeable as him anywhere near me. A YouTube legend.

Originally Posted by rayjaycleoful

Does anyone know about 1st Gen Creta torque converter?
I think the manual says sealed for life but that definitely can't be applicable to Indian scenarios.

Sorry could not find for old Creta, but just found the below for latest Creta, so you may use as a reference for the torque converter as I am assuming that to be same for all generations of Creta/Seltos and probably the current Verna too (not the Tucson though as I believe it has a higher torque rating).

[anandavinash]

I'm looking at buying an Audi A3 35TDI that is 3.5 years from date of manufacture and has 16,000km on the Odo so far. The car is in pristine condition. ASS told me that the gearbox oil needs to be replaced either at 60K km or 4 years whichever is earlier. Since the car has run only 16K km, they recommend not changing it right now even though the 4 year interval is coming up soon. I would prefer to take the car with the oil replaced but the Service Manager says it is not recommended.

Any views from distinguished BHPians on this?

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by anandavinash

I'm looking at buying an Audi A3 35TDI that is 3.5 years from date of manufacture and has 16,000km on the Odo so far. The car is in pristine condition. ASS told me that the gearbox oil needs to be replaced either at 60K km or 4 years whichever is earlier. Since the car has run only 16K km, they recommend not changing it right now even though the 4 year interval is coming up soon. I would prefer to take the car with the oil replaced but the Service Manager says it is not recommended.

Any views from distinguished BHPians on this?

Well, I am not a Distinguished BHPian but have a suggestion for you.

If the warranty of the car is valid beyond 4 years, then get the transmission fluid changed at the 4 years interval. Otherwise it could be a reason to deny a possible warranty claim on transmission in future.

Speaking technically, 16000 km won't degrade the oil. And the transmission being an enclosed box, the fluid won't catch any moisture too. So technically you can prolong the fluid change by another year or so (or till 60000 km, whichever is earlier).

[Shome]

My rapid is the 1.6 MPI automatic with the TC, the owners manual does not mention the need or interval to change the ATF fluid, is this something that I need to do? The service guys and my FNG have recommended not to change anything since everything seems to be working fine. My cars run over 1 lac without any change in ATF over the last 10 years, I have owner 5 of those.

[Indian2003]

Originally Posted by noopster

Do I proactively need to change ATF even if ASS is not recommending it? And what oil do I need to use for the 2011 Vento AT (petrol, 1.6 MFI mated to 6-speed torque convertor gearbox)?

Yes. It is the heat that kills the automatic gearbox. The fluid wears out and the heat will cause it to smell "burnt".
VW used the Mobil/Esso ATF for their automatic gearboxes packed in a OEM VW can.
Check the colour of the fluid. If red it is the Dexron 3. If yellow, it will be the Mobil Esso LT71141 ATF.

Both fluids will turn brown and black when overheated
83,000 km on the same fluid is way too long for a car running in the Indian heat.

[Elvis5.0]

Originally Posted by Indian2003

Yes. It is the heat that kills the automatic gearbox. The fluid wears out and the heat will cause it to smell "burnt".
VW used the Mobil/Esso ATF for their automatic gearboxes packed in a OEM VW can.
Check the colour of the fluid. If red it is the Dexron 3. If yellow, it will be the Mobil Esso LT71141 ATF.

Both fluids will turn brown and black when overheated
83,000 km on the same fluid is way too long for a car running in the Indian heat.

I have the same model vento 2012 tho, since I live abroad the car is 10 years old with 32k on the odo, and is only driven when I come for vacations to India , is it recommended to change the atf?

[Indian2003]

Originally Posted by Elvis5.0

I have the same model vento 2012 tho, since I live abroad the car is 10 years old with 32k on the odo, and is only driven when I come for vacations to India , is it recommended to change the atf?

I dont think so if your box works as normal. There are no fluid change intervals for the gearbox.
If you experience slipping you can replace the fluid.

[Sumer]

Dad's 35k run 2016 Innova Crysta 2.8 AT has gone for service and when I asked the SA about the TC fluid change, his reply was as expected ie it is for life. Since my car hasn't ran much, I'll skip it atleast this time, after going through this and other online discussions. The sad part is that lay folk fall for this trap.

[Sumedik]

Originally Posted by vigsom

Suzuki recommends transmission fluid change on their 4-speed torque converter ATs only every 11 years / 1,65,000kms.

My Maruti Suzuki 4-speed AT is about to complete 12 years. It is mostly used for short drives within the city (read drives in stop and go traffic) and thus has clocked less than 20Kms. The ATF looks bright red and I have not noticed any unusual transmission behavior.

Should I go ahead and do a drain and fill of ATF? Does ATF disintegrate purely based on the time factor though the car is used less?

I know I can go ahead and do the drain and fill for peace of mind. However, I am skeptical since the procedure is expensive (1 liter of ATF cost 1300Rs !) and somewhere deep inside I do not want to fiddle with something that is not broke. I wish to keep the car for 2 more years.