[FlatOut]

Originally Posted by gandalf

My 2 cents,

The electric car has 1 major issue. The Battery in the electric car is really expensive and has a life of about 5 years. I don't know of the exact costs but People say it would be more economical to buy a new car than replacing the power source. If these issues are the truth about electric cars then an electric car revolution in a maintenance conscious country like India may not happen.

And for the environment lover; I guess he would prefer having a car that is built to last a 100 years than have a car that has to be junked every 5-10 years.

IMHO, given what the market has to offer, I don't feel that electric cars make enough economic or environmental sense

I am not a battery car lover - they suffer the same disabilities as the 'horseless carriage' did a little over a century ago - but owners suggest a ten year or longer lifespan for batteries.

The sales of the BMW i3 will be interesting - it is the first mainstream well-engineered EV in my opinion - and should it take off then it could mark the beginning of the end of the ICE vehicle for the masses.

[Achekay]

Recently I came across an advertisement on TV that showed, very conspicuously to car guys, the illuminated grille of what could be a promising entrant from an established player in the Indian Exotic Car market: the electrifying new BMW i8.

BMW i, the hybrid sub-brand of BMW, had its birth at the 2009 Frankfurt Motor Show. The Vision ED looked absolutely jaw-dropping, with its blingey grille, scissor doors and the way it sat over its tyres. Since then, BMW have been hard at work making a Vision come true. The result, as you can see, is extreme to say the least. A 0-100 kmph time of less than 5 seconds, and an average fuel economy of 40+ kmpl was a dream come true for many motoring aficionados around the globe. Delivering on their promise, the Bavarian Giant opened its doors to the public from London. Then BMW dropped another bombshell, they promised to bring the brand to India. It was touted to be an insane move, sure to bomb.

Currently the only EVs on mainstream sale is the Mahindra e2o. Not so good-looking or practical. As a typical Mahindra trait, it is, relatively speaking, shockingly cheap. So we can't really expect people to fall for a 6M+ electric hybrid, since most people aren't patient enough to let the car charge before riding(what if power cuts off ?).

A common argument a common man would have is :
40+kmpl sounds absolutely mind-boggling, but let's face it, people able to pay that much for a car aren't exactly looking for economy, are they ? Add to that the fact that massive SUVs galore at that price range (enter the Jeep Grand Cherokee), and even some accomplished executive saloons (cats, stars, propellers, rings, even a manhood badge), people would shy away from this car, just because of the trust they place in the old players.

But one of the players is finally shaking off its "Der Alte" tag, (Mercedes-Benz too big a threat. Will discuss it further.), to present an entirely new face of its global operations.

Lets look at the BMW i8 in detail: http://www.bmw.com.ag/com/en/newvehi...ical_data.html

As you can see, this particular car is full of features we don't need, and offers features that we lust for at a too high price. Should not find too many takers, wouldn't you say ?

But let's think it out a bit here.
The Honda Jazz was an absolute VFM+ product, given its space, performance, looks, FE, and the bulletproof reliability that is inherent of all Hondas. All in all, a damn good car. But it failed miserably. Why? Simply because at its price one could buy a proper 3-box sedan, and a hatchback was seen as too downmarket, lacking the machismo of sedans and SUVs. For many years the premium hatchback segment stayed stagnant.

But the imminent arrival of the Merc A-class changed things. Prior to the launch, Mercedes-Benz India were highly discouraged from launching a 20lakh+ hatchback, and for good reason too. It would take a hardcore enthusiast to leave a Fortuner and buy a hatchback. So the A-class then was a scapegoat, to test the dangerous waters of this highly unprofitable market.

But the A-class successfully turned the hatchback business on its head, having garnered 400 bookings in the first month after its launch. The premium hatchback space was finally open to other contenders, with BMW quickly pitching in with their 1series, Volvo launching the V40 CrossCountry, and even Mini starting CKD operations for the Countryman, to be followed by the Cooper. VW also took a step in the right direction by launching the Polo GT TSI and GT TDI. Time is ripe for A3, A1, Megane, Clio, Twingo, Focus, Fiesta ST, Scirocco, Golf and other hot-hatches to enter, eh?

Back to the topic then. The unexpected success of the A-class finally gave the confidence to many auto-giants that India was ready to take the next step in the automobile business, that of accepting the unusual. The i sub brand introduction is just one side of the coin. The i8 is the beginning of the standard top-down approach, with the i3 to follow (Frankly, this car is not so good as the i8).

What this means in the broader sense is that every niche is getting a taker. Luxury hatchback, compact SUV, MUV(case in point the B-class), even stepped up hatches(Cross Polo, V40 CrossCountry, Punto Adventure, Liva Cross), you name it, someone wants it. And the number of someones is increasing exponentially.

The implications of this are huge. If the i8 becomes successful in the Indian market, we can safely expect other brands to follow suit(Tesla, anyone ?). As a hybrid, if it is successful, many EV brands could set up their operations here. And as a sportscar, if it is successful, we can expect BMW to follow it up with a slew of launches from their //M division. And if M is here, why should AMG and RS-line stay behind ? After all, last week heralded the welcome of the Audi RS7 in India.

Overall, after a slow 2013, 2014 is going to be a whirlwind of launches, updates, refreshes, and totally bonkers surprises !!
Can't wait !!

[commonman]

I saw this and was surprised. Need to check the legitimacy.
The technique is creating hydrogen out of water ,but its not stored.
Its termed as Hydrogen on Demand

The HHO gas that is being produced by the on demand system is not stored in any way. It is being used as it is produced. Many big companies have spent millions upon millions of dollars researching economical ways to store hydrogen gas and have all failed. The typical user of an HHO on demand system have reported 30 to 40% increases in fuel savings.

http://www.aadisales.in/hho_kits/HHO..._21plates.html

fb page
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hydro...779?fref=photo

[vina]

Originally Posted by commonman

I saw this and was surprised. Need to check the legitimacy.
The technique is creating hydrogen out of water ,but its not stored.
Its termed as Hydrogen on Demand

The HHO gas that is being produced by the on demand system is not stored in any way. It is being used as it is produced. Many big companies have spent millions upon millions of dollars researching economical ways to store hydrogen gas and have all failed. The typical user of an HHO on demand system have reported 30 to 40% increases in fuel savings.

http://www.aadisales.in/hho_kits/HHO..._21plates.html

fb page
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hydro...779?fref=photo

Is this some kind of a joke? Hydro-Oxy gas? also known as steam (or fart if blown from someone's behind)?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by vina

Is this some kind of a joke? Hydro-Oxy gas? also known as steam (or fart if blown from someone's behind)?

Not sure about the term Hydro-Oxy gas, but this looks just like ordinary Hydrogen gas generators. have been around for donkey years. The biggest problem is their efficieny. You need a lot of power to produce hydrogen out of water.

Jeroen

[wantarangerover]

Originally Posted by vina

Is this some kind of a joke? Hydro-Oxy gas? also known as steam (or fart if blown from someone's behind)?

I think it is not H2O, but HHO, a mixture of 2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part Oxygen. So not quite steam or fart!

[Guna]

I don't know if this has been already posted or is there a existing thread.
While there has been a talk (including our own government saying all vehicles will be electric by 2030) of the eventual death of the cars running on fossil fuels is making round, this report seem to make the eventuality even closer.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news...says-us-report

[Cool_leo_guy]

The esteemed professor has had a bit too much of pot. His report is good for a small enlightened state like California or some sundry EU countries with sparse population and non existent traffic jams. However in a country like ours where people are packed like sardines, self drive vehicles will take a lot of time to gain acceptance and companies will have their hands full trying to develop algorithms to avoid crazy stray quadrupeds and even crazier stray bipeds, who jump in front of moving vehicles at the rate of a few dozen a minute without any method to their madness.
Also he failed to take into account the current evolving cost structure of Electric vehicles worldwide and supporting infrastructure needed to make such predictions viable. It will happen one day in future but I am very sure that it won't be in 2024.

[theMAG]

The US has been a slow adopter to EVs compared to Europe, and more to the point, the top fuel in the US is gasoline(petrol) and the largest type of automobile sold is the SUV (they sell like hot cakes here in the North East!).

Such a deeply-entrenched national identity is not going to change in 8 years. Hybrids might very well expand next- from just the Priuses to larger family of automobiles, more realistically, as manufacturers start sharing technologies to reduce production costs.

Pure EV/autonomous vehicle shifts will probably be more long term only.

[extreme_torque]

It is exactly what they said when the iPhone was launched, that Nokia is infallible and look what happened in the next few years. I am not saying that this will happen with electric cars vs IC powered cars but to say that it is too far fetched is taking it too lightly.

Electric cars have a number of advantages aka an electric motor that does not need engine oil, spark plugs, gearbox or an engine oil and air filter and all the torque available from zero rpm and it is one of the most reliable machine on the planet. How many times has the motor on your ceiling fan conked out? If it did, how long did that work before it happened? Yes the range is an issue for some but even that is only until we are able to increase the energy density in the batteries. Imagine battery technology which is able to double the energy density along with shorter charging times and suddenly the electric cars are much more viable than IC powered cars and they will sell purely on the virtue of being better and not just their environment credentials.

Another clear advantage with electric cars is that you can get features via software updates and that their future proof in the sense that their battery pack can be easily replaced with a modern pack in future because the propulsion technology is not going to change much. The threat is real and unless the traditional car companies start taking electric cars seriously, they will be doomed much like Nokia has.

[varunsangal]

Originally Posted by Guna

While there has been a talk (including our own government saying all vehicles will be electric by 2030) of the eventual death of the cars running on fossil fuels is making round, this report seem to make the eventuality even closer.

8 years is a tall order even for Europe or any other developed nation. For developing nations like ours, the switch to electric cars has to take much longer. We'll need to fix the infrastructure, both in terms of electrification and infrastructure etc before we think of making all cars electric.

One way to do this is for government to encourage generation of power at a small scale, e.g. a wind turbine in every paddy field or solar cells on every rooftop and then to allow individuals to feed the power distribution system if they have surplus power. There are some articles which talk about the impact of such an initiative (largely the tectonic shift in how government/utilities make money).

Also, the government/companies need be able to generate alternate sources of revenue (remember the >60% tax on fuel).