[NYMEX]

Originally Posted by jassi_jeeper

Changed the spark plugs, opened the fuel pump, changed the temp sensor, cleaned the injectors, but could not find the problem.

Try changing the fuel filter (could be clogged) and also clean out the tank (water mixed in the petrol).

[kavesh55]

Moral of the story, dont buy a Freelander. #LandroverIndia #JaguarLandrover

[fusionbang]

@MadMonkey: Any update on the issues? Were the JLR service team able to resolve all your issues? Did you try to reach the higher professional from JLR?
Did they respond?

[Mad Monkey]

To all those who have posted , thank you .
i will try and answer all your questions and queries

You have read about how unreliable the car has been, in this post I would like to tell you about the unresponsive and useless customer service I have received from Jaguar Land Rover India (Tata motors)

Firstly i would like to bring to attention the fact that Jaguar Land Rover India Is not a subsidiary or part of Jaguar Land Rover UK
Jaguar Land Rover India is actual Tata motors who are an importer of Jaguar Land Rover cars .
The Jaguar Land Rover India National sales company will only be officially up and running in may of this year

This means that Jaguar Land Rover UK refuses to take any responsibility for sales and service in India .
All employees of Jaguar Land Rover India are actually employees of TATA motors and do not report and are not accountable to
Jaguar Land Rover UK

When Navnit motors had charged me for the components they replaced which were supposed to done under a service bulletin, I had to repeatedly follow up with the Senior Manager Premier Car Customer Support. The problem was solved only after loads of follow ups and communications, and even after that I was only given half a refund. The rest was given after following up a whole lot more.

When i had the battery failure the TATA workshop refused to give me a loaner battery . i Contacted incharge of tata motors customer care, and I again had to follow up multiple times . Only after a strongly worded email did they finally relent and replacement battery. Lo and Behold - there was a service bulletin for my car and battery, indicating a battery replacement was to be done. In spite of that they were making me run around in circles.

When the fuel pump failed, the workshop had not managed to source a fuel pump even after 40 days. I then contacted the National Service Operations Head at Premier Car Div of Tata Motors. Once again after repeated follow ups, did the fuel pump miraculously appear in a few days. I had to reason with them over a period of one week for extended my warranty because of the nature of the failure (which they did for 6 months, out of which the car spent 4 in the workshop). Also half a tank of fuel was in the car when it went to them, and I was told I would be charged to refill the tank of fuel since apparently all the fuel in the tank was contaminated with debris from the fuel pump failure. So they expected me to pay for fuel when a failure of their part apparently caused debris in it. Since my car warranty was going to finish in a few months and
I was worried about more part failures, I had to keep requesting for an extension in my warranty which the National Service Operations Head and his team kept declining. Only when I started posting on Jaguar Land Rover India's Facebook pages (see image attached) did I receive communication that was warranty was extended by 6 months as a 'goodwill gesture'. Its a different story that during the extension the car spent more time in the workshop than with me.




In the Case of the first Airbag failure warning the National Service Operations Head was completely unresponsive. I had to get him to get me in touch with the man in charge of Jaguar Land Rover in India the Vice President of Premier Car Div Tata motors
He went all out and assured me the best of service and customer support from his end but that did not last long . The car was checked and released and the problem was classified as a sporadic error

When the car broke down because of problem with the fuse related to the airbag module, National Service Operations Head and the Vice President of Tata motors Premier Car Div refused to accept any responsibility. When I voiced my displeasure to the Vice President of Tata motors Premier Car Div about the reliability of the car, he had the audacity to say that all machines break down, and that is completely normal. Also his rental cars in the US have also broken down. And even a SPACE SHUTTLE has had failures which has ended up in catastrophic loss of life. I was aghast, he was comparing a space shuttle to a Land Rover.

My response in the end was that I could not take the car back from Jaguar Land Rover's workshop as it was clearly defective, not at all reliable, and a risk for the occupants and other people on the road around it. In turn he then responded by telling me that if I did not take my car back it would be handed over to the local police station, as an unclaimed car, and also that going to the media or law would not do anything for my case.

I decided to just leave the car there, hoping for a positive resolution of the matter. After a month I asked for a discussion at my office, but instead of someone from the management showing up the service manager came with his assistant. He said nothing can be done, and that the car has been repaired and also that there will be no more problems. He very politely requested I take the car back from his workshop, as they were facing a severe space crunch (the second picture attached is of the extremely small workshop, which makes it believable they had a space crunch), and the car could get scratched or damaged. Being worried about the condition of my car, and the space issue he was facing I decided to pick up my car.


Tata Motors Jaguar Land rover official workshop

[fusionbang]

Originally Posted by Mad Monkey

My response in the end was that I could not take the car back from Jaguar Land Rover's workshop as it was clearly defective, not at all reliable, and a risk for the occupants and other people on the road around it. In turn he then responded by telling me that if I did not take my car back it would be handed over to the local police station, as an unclaimed car, and also that going to the media or law would not do anything for my case.

This is ridiculous, a shame on JLR service(TataMotors). When they are not capable of handling customer issues, why did they opt for this responsibility and agreement with JLR.

I think somehow through this forum, it should be brought to notice of the JLR superior management who has signed this dealership with Tata.

[Soumyajit9]

Just wondering, can't you now file a Consumer Case ?
Now that you have spoken to almost top level officials, what more is left, speak to Mr. Ratan Tata ?
You have documented proofs of work carried out, duration for which it was carried out, risk of life and what not.

However busy you may be, its worth spending couple of more hours to sit with your lawyer to get back the Crore (with interest and damages) that you spent in buying this car.
Enough of nonsense. Send a legal notice to JLR India. Period.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by Mad Monkey

And even a SPACE SHUTTLE has had failures which has ended up in catastrophic loss of life. I was aghast, he was comparing a space shuttle to a Land Rover.

He then responded by telling me that if I did not take my car back it would be handed over to the local police station, as an unclaimed car, and also that going to the media or law would not do anything for my case.

Wow I don't know what to say. To compare the cars of the company he works for to a space shuttle is ridiculous. And to think he can brush off these failures so nonchalantly. No wonder JLR is in such a state, I mean if the so called India head of the company thinks like this I'm at a loss for words.

He then went on to threaten you, and say the media or law would not make any difference? WOW well done JLR. Your car almost kills someone, and then you threaten them.

I know I've stopped at least 2 people from buying Range Rover Vogues by showing them this thread. There is 5cr of business gone.

I don't normally react so strongly, but after seeing the responses of the main person at JLR India, I think you need to take the strongest possible action against them.

p.s - The size of that workshop is tiny. No wonder they take ages to get anything done.

[navin]

Originally Posted by Mad Monkey

Some stats on my Discovery 4:

• Just over three years old
• Run only 34,000 kms
• 6 Services completed
• On my third set of brake pads
• Four break downs . Two outside Mumbai in remote area's
• Almost 250 days spent in the workshop due to various faults and breakdowns
• 10 (yes TEN) different loaner cars in the last three years

[b]Year-wise breakup of major problems faced

Monkey,

I dont know if you remember. One day I was crossing the road near KC / HR college and I hear a loud horn and it was you behind the wheel of a LR. Thank God your LR's steering did not lock up then or I would have been the victim!

While I can only sympathise with your experience we need to take this forward so what is the current status of the car? Is it road worthy? Has it been repaired to your satisfaction?

If you car is road worthy and repaired to your satisfaction, you might have to close the matter and chalk this up to experience albeit a bad one.

If not you have 2 choices.

a. Escalate the matter till the matter reaches a person who is empowered to resolve this.

b. Sell the car to the dealer but then as mentioned before it will still be on the road.

Sadly India does not have Lemon laws. This is because all governments are only interested in making laws that apply to the general public and since cars are considered a "luxury item" in India there is little political interest.

As a country we consider "getting rich" as "bad". That somehow everyone who has gotten wealth has done so by "illegal" means. Hence "the rich are bad people" and they should not have any sympathetic laws. In one case a buyrer of a Hyundai took 9 years to get a replacement engine (not a replacement car) and a paltry "Rs 10,000 for “mental agony and harassment” and compensate him Rs 1,000 for the cost of the legal action".

Source
http://indiacorplaw.blogspot.in/2008...-troubles.html

Till we do get lemon laws the car buyer is left to the mercy of the car companies and their ablity to produce reliable cars and deliver the quality of service these cars demand.

http://www.supremecourtcases.com/ind...pdf=1&id=21217

[humyum]

Monkey, you should put this out in the Media. What a manufacturer hates is negative publicity all over the news papers and social networking sites. Please call some news papers, tweet Salman khan that he is not alone, file a consumer case and bring these guys down to their knees.

Selling a product and then absolving all claims if something goes wrong is done by unethical businesses and they need to be taught a lesson. Please don't take this lying down.

[mavrikm5]

Their Business is booming and they don't seem to give a damn about customer woes once he is in the net. show of courtesy is only a formality which never transcends to action, which also has to be forced upon. i have faced repeated issues with my Q5 over 2 years(spent about 6 months in workshop) that i owned it and finally decided to sell it off than suffer at their hands.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...on-dealer.html

[giri1.8]

All my respect towards JLR has crashed after reading this thread almost every single premium brand has extremely terrible reliability, this is one of the many reason why people settle for cars like fortuner even if they have a fortune to spend on their cars. If I was in your place I would have sold the car off and bought something reliable like VOLVO or just something from toyota. I am in a similar situation with my chevy, I will sell it off in a year and get something from maruthi, peace of mind is priceless!

[joybhowmik]

Mad Monkey,
I think Tata Motors is only one side of the issue . Sure they are at fault for not having trained people at all levels - from mechanic/RSA to VP - and something can be done about that in India.
The other side of the issue JLR in UK. They have made your ownership experience miserable with a defective car, and then made matters worse, with delayed shipments of faulty parts.
When JLR have decided to sell the cars in India, the least they ought to ensure is
a) maintain inventory levels of Quality Assured parts at least in the 4 metros.
b) their service partners (in this case their owners-Tata) employ certified trained mechanics who are able to diagnose the faults and fully aware of latest developments such as recalls/service bulletins
c) have a clearly established escalation chain all the way up to their COO in the UK.

[rikhav]

I had no business to post on this thread as I had nothing concrete to add but I was following it once a week just to see the progress and how TATA solves the problem

If TATA has such attitude with their so called PREMIUM CAR customers, do you think we should even bother buying their local cars "INDICA/ARIA/SAFARI", specially when a VP says what he has to the OP

After paying so much, cheating death several times, one would expect the company guys to atleast take the responsibility, be really sorry for what has happened and do their best and instead you get such shoddy treatment


I will give one small example. My friend who lives in Florida, USA has a Nissan Titan truck and had some gearbox related issue with his truck and gear oil was leaking. He took it to a nearby independent garage near his work place to get it fixed. Its a chain of gagages. They gave him an estimate, which was okayed by my friend and car was given back in 2 days.
After few days and about 400 miles of running problem crops up again and my friend contacts the garage he had taken to. Those garage guys get the car towed to the nearest garage in their chain and went to examine it. It was found that the problem is more severe and several other parts had to be replaced. My friend had to just say politely that "They gave him an estimate after checking the car which he agreed to pay. If he had known he has to spend so much more, he would have thought of selling the truck"

To this he gets a reply that all further expenses would be on the garage , including labour and spares. Mind you, the gearbox had to be completely removed and refitted and that only was costing some 1000 to 1500 dollars

My point is that when a small independent chain of garage an take the responsibility, why it is not possible for such a big dealership in our country when it is crystal clear that the said car has had some very severe issues

I feel its more to do with the laws in our country rather then the attitude of the dealer or company. If there is no way out law wise, these companies and dealers will have to change their attitude towards their customers

From my side, I will make as many people possible read this thread

[supertinu]

Normally I am of the belief that legal system in US at times goes over board in entertaining legal lawsuits which are absolutely ridiculous in nature or claim and yet they manage to win. However reading your experience Mad Monkey I really wish we had a more active legal system where such genuine cases can be resolved. Can you imagine this happening in US, even a scratch as a result of car malfunction on freeway would result in a million dollar law suit on JLR and any serious bodily harm means hundreds of millions.

On a lighter note also changes my perspective and I shouldn't complain too much about my Ford's A.S.S. quality for a 7 lac car .

[Aditya]

If this is the plight of JLR customers in a major city like Mumbai, I dread to imagine what people from other cities will be going through.
About the Discovery, Mad Monkey, it's time to escalate the issue and get rid of the damned thing.
I wouldn't keep a car that's actively trying to kill me.