[me_sid]

Hi Friends,

I know we have a 200 odd page of Niggles thread, why a separate one? Simple, the problem that I am having is not being shown in the fault codes, neither the check engine light is glowing.

Let me elaborate a bit. First the details of my XUV :

Variant : W6
Year of Manufacturing : 2012 August
ODO Reading : 11,198 KM

Engine oil changed on a regular interval starting from 1000km ( after the running in).

Prologue:

After buying of the XUV, it has become my daily drive. Though there had been niggles, like the usual brake grinding noise, the door latch not operating, it was nothing worth mentioning. In fact January beginning only, I have completed a 1500 KM round trip from North Bengal, without any glitch whatsoever. The way this beast chewed on the lunar craters of Dumka-Bhagalpur stretch needs a standard ovation. After this trip there was a routine trip to the A.S.S for a engine oil change, and usual checkup. No problem whatsoever, truck was fine. From Jan second week I became extremely busy due to business travel, moreover I felt that I wasn't doing justice to my Baleno, so started using it on a regular basis whenever I was, with the XUV, being used mainly on the weekends.

The Problem :

Last Saturday, I was taking my wife and kid to my in-laws place, and around 500 meters from my place, while downshifting from 4th to 3rd, the engine dies. In the beginning I thought I have stalled, but then even on cranking the engine wont start. I was stranded in the middle of Ruby Connector , one of the busiest roads of South Calcutta. Shoving a 3 toner from one side to another, and fitting into curb side parking without power assist is a herculean task, believe me. Opened the bonnet and tried to analyse. Starter motor cranking, so the fuse is alright. Checked if oil had water in it. Primed the hand pump to expel air, if any.Nothing! The engine wouldn't fire. There's no check engine light, no indication whatsoever. MY XUV WAS DEAD!!

Called up my relationship manager, he promptly diverted one of the service advisers who has gone to attend a breakdown to me. He checked and couldn't find any fault, said " Sir Leke chalo ". I called up the "with u hamesha" 1800, number, whom I had to explain at least four times on my location ( she was asking whether I am on a highway, when I have told her that I am in South Calcutta, heart of the city). Okay discount that! Then the service support guy called, he tried to help remotely which was nice, cause I am sure there are Johnnie's, who don't even open their manuals. After going thru his SOP, he said he would be dispatching a flat bed truck, along with a cab for me ( I declined). Jolly Good! I have to wait for 1 hour as per him. This one hour went on to become 2, and the flat bed arrived. Okay Discount that! This is India, how much would be the worth of one hour. Nothing! Not to sound caustic, there's also the issue of Traffic.

(Note : This flatbed services are outsourced, not M&M/any dealers, hence they have other commitments with other manufacturers including Merc's, Beemer's, Jag's, Maruti's, Fiat's etc etc), so the service request is like FIFO! If you ever have to wait for a flatbed, try to relax cause it takes time). Even the experience was okay, I would suggest there's a scope of improvement, the time gap between the steps can surely be worked upon.

The guys were efficient, they promptly took the car up the ramp on the flatbed, the winch was prehistoric and the steel cable was not actually very inspiring, but it did its job. Does anybody want to know, how that Ape in the cage thinks when you look at him and explain to your kids about the usual ancestor thingy. Yes? Good Sit on the steering wheel of a car which is on a flatbed and then come and tell me. I had to withstand this ordeal for 30 minutes. And we reached the A.S.S around 4.30 ish. The car was promptly unloaded and taken to the bay. Initial diagnosis was that engine was having no compression. There wasn't any fault codes detected by their software.

I was being informed that the M&M service incharge of East has visited the dealership yesterday based on the TAR report, couldn't find any fault, since injectors 'et all have been checked.

As of now the "suction is not adequate".

He has asked the service head of the dealership to open the head today and send him the report with pictures. I will be getting the report by day end and update the same.

Now let me clarify my stance, being a seller of capital plant & equipment am aware that machines can fail, no matter how reliable or, how "bullet proof" their Sales pitch are. It doesn't make me sleepless, I however just raise my eyebrow on the reliability factor. To me the differentiator is how efficiently the case is being handled.

SO M&M, my only request, please take care of my baby, make him fit n fine fast.

Please feel free to put in your views, opinions and suggestions. I would be updating this thread on a daily basis, so that my fellow Co-owners, and prospective owners can have a fairly good idea on what to expect and how things proceed.









EDIT: Update on 13th Feb:

Am not at all hard on M&M, in fact I kinda appreciate their attitude. But this time am keeping a close watch since this issue is serious.

Yesterday as I reached the A.S.S, at around 7 'ish, I was being informed that they have finally taken the engine out. In our Whats App XUV group, someone talked about open heart surgery. Open heart Indeed! Ok coming back, the fault has been diagnosed. The hydraulic clamps that pushes down the valves when the grooves of the crank rotates, has broken. For 8 valves there are 16 of these clamps, out of which 3 has broken. And because of this there's abrasion on the grooves. So this is IT.

Now we have found out the "WHAT". Next step is "HOW" to rectify & by "WHEN". What remains unanswered is "WHY".

I take care of the engine like a baby ( changing of oil every 3500 km on an average).
I have just completed a 2000 km drive couple of weeks back, the car performed absolutely fine.
After this drive, I happened to change the engine oil and drove the car for maybe 60 70 odd kms before this incident occurred.

Last night I was having a discussion with Dr. S. Sengupta ( SS Traveler). And till now his logic sounds good, according to him this can happen most probably due to sump pump failure.

That's a probability , feel free to put in your opinion.

[Blow Horn Ok]

I hope your ride comes out of the treatment very soon and serve you for years to come. Even I am amazed that a new vehicle developed this kind of issue without giving any warning signs of low pick-up, smoke etc.

I think you should report this incident to higher M&M officials and pitch for additional warranty atleast for 2 more years.

[me_sid]

Originally Posted by Blow Horn Ok

I hope your ride comes out of the treatment very soon and serve you for years to come. Even I am amazed that a new vehicle developed this kind of issue without giving any warning signs of low pick-up, smoke etc.

I think you should report this incident to higher M&M officials and pitch for additional warranty atleast for 2 more years.

Thanks pal, Yes, all these things would come up subsequently. As of now, whats most important to me , is to get him Up & Running.

Update: The Engine head is in the process of being opened. I will be going in the evening. Will keep you posted.

P.S : Anirban ( 1100D), thanks a ton for your suggestion.

[hvkumar]

Unfortunately, cars have become ugly computers today unlike the beautiful mechanical creatures they were once upon a time. Pardon me for saying this, but in an old-fashioned mechanical car, something like this was unthinkable. And even the vagabond of a road-side mechanic could have done his 10 Rupee stuff, instead of having to battle nincompoops who sit in ASCs who have no understanding of neither car engineering nor customer service.

[interc00led]

Originally Posted by me_sid

Update: The Engine head is in the process of being opened. I will be going in the evening. Will keep you posted.

Is it not too early to suspect a compression problem ?
Did they use a compression gauge to find out the compression reading ?

For the engine to fail in starting due to compression loss- multiple cylinders must lose compression which cannot happen unless the timing belt/chain/gear breaks.

I suspect a fueling related issue. Ask them to check rail pressure at the time of cranking and if the injectors are getting power or not.
Basically rule out all other factors and only then go for head removal.

EDIT: Plug a scan tool and see if it is able to communicate with the ECU.

[sanjoy50]

shocked to read your predicament Sid .How this could happen to one of the most expensive and so safe vehicle ? But you are lucky that your XUV did not misbehave during your North Bengal trip, one shudders to think the kind of trouble that would have been ! We only hope that you get back your baby as fast as possible and let M&M adequately compensate you for all the trouble you are facing.

[me_sid]

Originally Posted by hvkumar

Unfortunately, cars have become ugly computers today unlike the beautiful mechanical creatures they were once upon a time. Pardon me for saying this, but in an old-fashioned mechanical car, something like this was unthinkable. And even the vagabond of a road-side mechanic could have done his 10 Rupee stuff, instead of having to battle nincompoops who sit in ASCs who have no understanding of neither car engineering nor customer service.

Thanks Chief! Guess will have to live with that.

Originally Posted by interc00led

Is it not too early to suspect a compression problem ?
Did they use a compression gauge to find out the compression reading ?

For the engine to fail in starting due to compression loss- multiple cylinders must lose compression which cannot happen unless the timing belt/chain/gear breaks.

I suspect a fueling related issue. Ask them to check rail pressure at the time of cranking and if the injectors are getting power or not.
Basically rule out all other factors and only then go for head removal.

I agree, however they reported that they have done the injection testing. And timing belt breakage, can you inspect without opening the engine? Some of the advisers were of this opinion too.

[sridhu]

Hi:

I had a similar experience with my Innova (Almost 200,000 km). In my case the root cause was very trivial - the lead connecting to the battery was loose. I shook it a couple of times & hey presto, it started.

Advise you to check that first.

[hvkumar]

Before they do things like head removal, they should check all electricals, basic things like fuel supply, injectors, electrical lines and fuses. A simple fuse blow-out can also cause something like this. Even in my old-fashioned Scorpio, my engine died, I traced it to a FIP Solenoid fuse blow-out

[renney.varghese]

Reading through the other posts related to adultrated fuel.
Could this be one of the causes? We have read cases where water has been found mixed with diesel. Could this be the reason where the compression has gone down? Donno ... let's wait for the report

[interc00led]

Originally Posted by me_sid

I agree, however they reported that they have done the injection testing. And timing belt breakage, can you inspect without opening the engine? Some of the advisers were of this opinion too.

I am not sure whether xuv uses a belt or chain but there must be a provision for inspection by some window on the timing cover.

As you have cranked the engine in an attempt to restart the engine- How did it sound while cranking ?
If there is significant compression loss then the engine would crank faster .

[me_sid]

Originally Posted by renney.varghese

Reading through the other posts related to adultrated fuel.
Could this be one of the causes? We have read cases where water has been found mixed with diesel. Could this be the reason where the compression has gone down? Donno ... let's wait for the report

That option is ruled out since I have already checked for the water level in the sensor, it was okay.

Originally Posted by interc00led

I am not sure whether xuv uses a belt or chain but there must be a provision for inspection by some window on the timing cover.

As you have cranked the engine in an attempt to restart the engine- How did it sound while cranking ?
If there is significant compression loss then the engine would crank faster .

There wasn't any sound of the engine, it was only the sound of the starter motor. The engine seemed decoupled.

[interc00led]

Originally Posted by me_sid

There wasn't any sound of the engine, it was only the sound of the starter motor. The engine seemed decoupled.

By decoupled do you mean that the engine wasn't turning over at all and the starter was just spinning ?
Please be little more clear.

[me_sid]

Originally Posted by sanjoy50

shocked to read your predicament Sid .How this could happen to one of the most expensive and so safe vehicle ? But you are lucky that your XUV did not misbehave during your North Bengal trip, one shudders to think the kind of trouble that would have been ! We only hope that you get back your baby as fast as possible and let M&M adequately compensate you for all the trouble you are facing.

Thanks Sanjoyda.

Originally Posted by hvkumar

Before they do things like head removal, they should check all electricals, basic things like fuel supply, injectors, electrical lines and fuses. A simple fuse blow-out can also cause something like this. Even in my old-fashioned Scorpio, my engine died, I traced it to a FIP Solenoid fuse blow-out

Thanks Chief! They have checked all electrical elements, compression, injection, everything is okay! What Anirban (1100D) suggested might be an issue, failure of sensors that might lead to improper percentage of fuel to be mixed for combustion, leading to the preemptive shutdown of engine. And the reason why the check engine light is not showing is maybe because the engine is not running in the "fault mode". However the outcome of all the tests are "inadequate suction". I would be going to the A.S.S in an hour. Will update after I see it, and get a prima facea update.

Originally Posted by interc00led

By decoupled do you mean that the engine wasn't turning over at all and the starter was just spinning ?
Please be little more clear.

Exactly that interc00led. Engine wasn't turning over, the starter motor was just spinning.

[saket77]

Did the XUV got a car wash before the trip? I once read how Debuda's XUV5oo refused to start in J&K valley. It was towed/carried to service station where the culprit was moisture in the fuse box. The truck started normally after some compressed air was used to dry out the moisture developed inside.

Here is a link to the situation: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post3143161