Alto and the AirCon

Technocrat · 15th March 2007, 14:21

Vid even I face some jerks but they are not jolts which I belive primarily happens when you accelarate & while accelarting the aircon starts then I do get a jerk but thats just one & I have now kinda got used to it.

Knight Rider · 15th March 2007, 17:52

Okay, even I had the same problem, The Dealer told me that it was a manufacturing defect and the entire clutch assembly was changed, The problem started showing up again.

However after upgrading to K&N and headers, I do not face this issue anymore, Why dont you also do the same -

Vid6639 · 15th March 2007, 18:37

lol... knight rider. I am trying to get the problem fixed within warranty. If i put headers and k&n i dont think ill be under warranty.

Maybe I can try the stock k&n filter. lets see.

Any other suggestions? has anyone got it solved from MUL.

maybe experts Viper or psycho can help us out as to what it could be.

MUL guys cant figure it out.

rjstyles69 · 15th March 2007, 20:47

Yuppp !! Guess the last resort is only to go according to knight Rider's suggestion headers and a conical K&N.

@vid6639, problem persists with every single Alto I guess. My bro's Alto has this problem and is very evident. I used to use the car initially and felt the same jerk with the AC switched on.Checked a couple of times with MUL and no joy.

After reading this thread ,drove a colleagues Alto LXI and heck it also has the same problem.So let the experts speak and see what they have to say.

Vid6639 · 15th March 2007, 21:21

Yeah so far I have gathered that the cut off is very sharp. So I'm guessing the idle air control IAC valve gets activated. Now with the AC on the deceleration i.e. engine braking is not linear you can feel on off feeling during decelaration.

This should be set in the ECU to get better mileage i.e. to have a sharp cut off. But there is a lag in the cut off.

For some reason it acts funny only when the AC load is present. Without the AC load its not as bad. It doesnt give that bad a jerk but you feel the sharp cut off.

Now i need to see a solution for this. I'm sure there is a workaround/fix for this.

Elf, is this problem still there with your alto? any workaround you got?

mithun · 20th March 2007, 05:23

So is there any solution for the sluggishness of the Alto when the AC is ON ?

speedzak · 20th March 2007, 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by mithun

So is there any solution for the sluggishness of the Alto when the AC is ON ?

1. You can try realigning the clutch. It does have an effect.
2. Gearbox realignment.
3. Bigger/better air filter.
4. Freeflow. Preferably with custom manifold and headers.
5. Switch off the AC!!
6. Get a Baleno!!!! Believe me, it doesn't jerk with AC on.

Vid6639 · 26th March 2007, 10:02

Just checked mileage. 13.5 with AC on. There has to be something wrong as the car has never crossed this figure. This time there was a highway run as well as city driving with no traffic since i went to work at 7am and came back at 4pm.

I generally get 13-13.5 only. After clutch change and service. The jerking must be affecting the mileage.

abhibh · 26th March 2007, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by mithun

So is there any solution for the sluggishness of the Alto when the AC is ON ?

Just get a Triphase...

elf · 26th March 2007, 10:52

Got the same problem with wifey's Alto (800cc). When the car's cold, absolutely no problems whatsoever. She starts great, idles smooth & pulls away like a cat on cocaine.

Once she heats up she gets cranky. In serious heat with the air-conditioning on, I get clutch judder like you can't believe.

The clutch was allegedly replaced under warranty at about 5k by Maruti Udyog. No problem for some time, issue resurfaced again after about a thousand odd kilometers. Their response: "Alto aisa hi banta hai". @%^%#$#^$#

Am not going back to those A.S.S.es again.

Me got a theory, albeit unproven yet. Maybe it's because of some oil which drips onto the clutch (a/c or engine), causing it to judder like it's got epileptic fits. This only happens with the air-conditioning on. Switch it off, & she picks again like the aforementioned narcotic cat.

Experts, any input?

Vid6639 · 26th March 2007, 10:58

yeah exactly without the AC load she does give decent pickup. the minute you press the AC button thats it your driving a bucking bronco.

I'm not sure it's to do with the clutch. It doesnt happen only when you engage clutch only during acceleration or deceleration i.e. backing off gas.

Elf, you remember we discussed this in the throttle body thread:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...tml#post299057

I've threatened MUL to change my car if it's not fixed.

k36 · 26th March 2007, 12:00

I face jerking while accelerating and decelerating with AC on even in my Swift VXi, but ONLY at low (below 1750) RPM. No problems at higher RPM.

My Theory: Probably at low RPM the engines do not product enough torque to drive both AC and the car well enough and hence the ECU tries to juggle between the two.
I've made a habit of driving at one gear lower in city traffic when AC is on, specially in summer, keeping RPM in 1750-2500 range and this works out fine. No jerks at these engine speeds. This should work even in Alto.

Any other Swift owners facing this?

Vid6639 · 26th March 2007, 12:17

k36 low rpm is pretty standard. since the engine cannot handle the AC load and drive the wheels.

this problem is midrange while accelerating or coming down the revs.

I dont know rpm as alto has no tacho.

Technocrat · 26th March 2007, 12:46

Guys arent we expectinga bit too much from an entry level car ?

Vid6639 · 26th March 2007, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Guys arent we expectinga bit too much from an entry level car ?

Nope it is clearly a problem with the car. My 6 year 800 AC model didn't have the problem.

My friend's alto doesnt have it. Why should the clutch plate of a car need replacement after 8K kms.

Service engineers say this will solve the jerking. but again after few hundres kms the problem resurfaces.

The car costs 3.5L of hard earned money. It is expected that the car should be trouble free.

How can a company sell a car with such a bad jerking problem.

15th March 2007, 14:21	#16
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	Vid even I face some jerks but they are not jolts which I belive primarily happens when you accelarate & while accelarting the aircon starts then I do get a jerk but thats just one & I have now kinda got used to it.
	() Thanks

15th March 2007, 17:52	#17
Knight Rider BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 282 Thanked: 28 Times	Okay, even I had the same problem, The Dealer told me that it was a manufacturing defect and the entire clutch assembly was changed, The problem started showing up again. However after upgrading to K&N and headers, I do not face this issue anymore, Why dont you also do the same -
	() Thanks

15th March 2007, 18:37	#18
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,727 Thanked: 43,457 Times View My Garage	lol... knight rider. I am trying to get the problem fixed within warranty. If i put headers and k&n i dont think ill be under warranty. Maybe I can try the stock k&n filter. lets see. Any other suggestions? has anyone got it solved from MUL. maybe experts Viper or psycho can help us out as to what it could be. MUL guys cant figure it out.
	() Thanks

15th March 2007, 20:47	#19
rjstyles69 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bengalooru.. Posts: 4,343 Thanked: 842 Times View My Garage	Yuppp !! Guess the last resort is only to go according to knight Rider's suggestion headers and a conical K&N. @vid6639, problem persists with every single Alto I guess. My bro's Alto has this problem and is very evident. I used to use the car initially and felt the same jerk with the AC switched on.Checked a couple of times with MUL and no joy. After reading this thread ,drove a colleagues Alto LXI and heck it also has the same problem.So let the experts speak and see what they have to say.
	() Thanks

15th March 2007, 21:21	#20
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,727 Thanked: 43,457 Times View My Garage	Yeah so far I have gathered that the cut off is very sharp. So I'm guessing the idle air control IAC valve gets activated. Now with the AC on the deceleration i.e. engine braking is not linear you can feel on off feeling during decelaration. This should be set in the ECU to get better mileage i.e. to have a sharp cut off. But there is a lag in the cut off. For some reason it acts funny only when the AC load is present. Without the AC load its not as bad. It doesnt give that bad a jerk but you feel the sharp cut off. Now i need to see a solution for this. I'm sure there is a workaround/fix for this. Elf, is this problem still there with your alto? any workaround you got? Last edited by Vid6639 : 15th March 2007 at 21:25.
	() Thanks

20th March 2007, 05:23	#21
mithun BANNED Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cochin Posts: 2,195 Thanked: 268 Times	So is there any solution for the sluggishness of the Alto when the AC is ON ?
	() Thanks

26th March 2007, 10:02	#23
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,727 Thanked: 43,457 Times View My Garage	Just checked mileage. 13.5 with AC on. There has to be something wrong as the car has never crossed this figure. This time there was a highway run as well as city driving with no traffic since i went to work at 7am and came back at 4pm. I generally get 13-13.5 only. After clutch change and service. The jerking must be affecting the mileage.
	() Thanks

26th March 2007, 10:52	#25
elf BANNED Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	Got the same problem with wifey's Alto (800cc). When the car's cold, absolutely no problems whatsoever. She starts great, idles smooth & pulls away like a cat on cocaine. Once she heats up she gets cranky. In serious heat with the air-conditioning on, I get clutch judder like you can't believe. The clutch was allegedly replaced under warranty at about 5k by Maruti Udyog. No problem for some time, issue resurfaced again after about a thousand odd kilometers. Their response: "Alto aisa hi banta hai". @%^%#$#^$# Am not going back to those A.S.S.es again. Me got a theory, albeit unproven yet. Maybe it's because of some oil which drips onto the clutch (a/c or engine), causing it to judder like it's got epileptic fits. This only happens with the air-conditioning on. Switch it off, & she picks again like the aforementioned narcotic cat. Experts, any input? Last edited by elf : 26th March 2007 at 10:53.
	() Thanks

26th March 2007, 10:58	#26
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,727 Thanked: 43,457 Times View My Garage	yeah exactly without the AC load she does give decent pickup. the minute you press the AC button thats it your driving a bucking bronco. I'm not sure it's to do with the clutch. It doesnt happen only when you engage clutch only during acceleration or deceleration i.e. backing off gas. Elf, you remember we discussed this in the throttle body thread: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...tml#post299057 I've threatened MUL to change my car if it's not fixed.
	() Thanks

26th March 2007, 12:00	#27
k36 BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 133 Thanked: 21 Times	Even in Swift I face jerking while accelerating and decelerating with AC on even in my Swift VXi, but ONLY at low (below 1750) RPM. No problems at higher RPM. My Theory: Probably at low RPM the engines do not product enough torque to drive both AC and the car well enough and hence the ECU tries to juggle between the two. I've made a habit of driving at one gear lower in city traffic when AC is on, specially in summer, keeping RPM in 1750-2500 range and this works out fine. No jerks at these engine speeds. This should work even in Alto. Any other Swift owners facing this? Last edited by k36 : 26th March 2007 at 12:01.
	() Thanks

26th March 2007, 12:17	#28
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,727 Thanked: 43,457 Times View My Garage	k36 low rpm is pretty standard. since the engine cannot handle the AC load and drive the wheels. this problem is midrange while accelerating or coming down the revs. I dont know rpm as alto has no tacho.
	() Thanks

26th March 2007, 12:46	#29
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	Guys arent we expectinga bit too much from an entry level car ?
	() Thanks