A Land Rover speciality.....?

islero · 5th July 2006, 20:38

I was having a very intersting chat with my uncle who is a Land Rover freak (and one of the reasons behind my own obsession with the marque).He used to own a Defender 110 with the 2.5 turbo diesel engine.

We were just talking about the driving experience of the vehicles, when he told me about this incredible feature of a Land Rover 2.5 diesel, which he said not many diesel off roaders are capable of.

Well the deal is like this. Say he was at the bottom of the climb in a multi-storey car park. What he would do is, slot the gear into first, get the Landy just moving, and then leave all the pedals completley.

BUT THE LANDY WOULD NOT STOP MOVING. It would still trickle forward at a very low speed without its speed dropping or rising. Then all he would have to do was steer the vehicle around, no need to touch the throttle at all.

He said this was due to the torque characteristics of the engine, and was also possible in second, and maybe in third too.

This really got me thinking. Has anyone experienced this phenomenon in their diesel Landy/jeep etc?

I am not very experienced in these things, and I want to know more. What I want to know is, is this a common phenomenon, because I remember reading in some auto magazine that even the hummer was capable of something like this.

Cheers,
Islero

Captain Pings · 5th July 2006, 20:57

oh i love landys! tell u what, i'll try it with my gypsy and let you know if it continues to crawl up an incline!

Harrie · 5th July 2006, 21:00

I am not sure about this but my GTX does the same. I do this in PVR... Forum. Forgot the damm name after 4 months.

I slot the car in first and let go off the pedals and car pulls forward speed breakers and all without a hiccup. But this the car would do only if I fill it up with Shell or BP or some good fuel. If i put IBP or ESSAR the car would start knocking...

In fact a combination of worn out clutch and low end torque made my wife say that the uno was the easiest car of the lot to drive. Almost like a automatic. First gear. Let go off the clutch and the car will crawl without jerking...

devarshi84 · 5th July 2006, 21:07

Our 68 fiat model was capable of this feat but only in 1st if I remember properly.

airfoil · 5th July 2006, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harrie

I am not sure about this but my GTX does the same.

My thoughts exactly - my GTX does it too.

pillainp · 5th July 2006, 21:35

Our Padmini 137D does this handily. One of them (we had two, but literally gave one away), would climb slopes in third, with only the clutch being released, and no throttle at all.

I used to work in the hills around Neyyar Dam with Milma in '96. Those of you who know that area will know that there are a lot of really tough places there.

I've gone places with this Padmini that 4WD jeep taxis would not go.

This creep feature has helped many times on really bad terrain, where all I had to do was engage first, let out the clutch, and steer: the car would literally drive itself over the tough spots.

In fact, after a while, I learned a very valuable lesson - let the car be. I was doing a far worse job negotiating the rough spots than the car was by itself.

NPP

drifter · 5th July 2006, 22:40

And so does my accent crdi uptill 2nd gear...havent tried 3rd.

Drifter

aah78 · 5th July 2006, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by islero

Say he was at the bottom of the climb in a multi-storey car park. What he would do is, slot the gear into first, get the Landy just moving, and then leave all the pedals completley.

BUT THE LANDY WOULD NOT STOP MOVING. It would still trickle forward at a very low speed without its speed dropping or rising. Then all he would have to do was steer the vehicle around, no need to touch the throttle at all.

He said this was due to the torque characteristics of the engine, and was also possible in second, and maybe in third too.

This really got me thinking. Has anyone experienced this phenomenon in their diesel Landy/jeep etc?

this happens in the older Discovery as well as the newer LR3 (Discovery 3) but both cars were petrol engined V8s with automatic transmission, not manual diesels.

with the Lo-Range gearbox engaged, and the transmission in Drive, the car does move forward on an upward slope at a speed of around 5mph (@ 8kmph), without any throttle pressure.

no magic here - any engine with a decent amount of torque can achieve this.

Mpower · 5th July 2006, 23:22

basically first is a crawler ratio (real short).

Our 94 Tatamobile did that too. Great for learners coz you can never stall it by dumping the clutch.

islero · 5th July 2006, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by aah78

this happens in the older Discovery as well as the newer LR3 (Discovery 3) but both cars were petrol engined V8s with automatic transmission, not manual diesels.

Erm, I was talking about DEFENDER, not Discovery.

early 90's defenders had a 2.5 litre Turbo diesel engine. There was also the option of the V8 petrol.

aah78 · 6th July 2006, 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by islero

Erm, I was talking about DEFENDER, not Discovery.

early 90's defenders had a 2.5 litre Turbo diesel engine. There was also the option of the V8 petrol.

yes, i did read through your post before putting up my experience.

the Discovery 3 does have a diesel option too (2.7l V6 Turbo), however, unfortunately, it isn't sold in the USA - has to be specially ordered. the Defender isn't sold here anymore, either.

jyobeb · 6th July 2006, 09:53

Most of the older landy's have the 2.5 DI normally aspirated diesels. These have a fairly high idle rpm, which helps the vehicle move along at a crawl in first gear without acceleration. I do it all the time on my friends 90 defender 110.
Actually the 2.5 Turbo diesel was not a really reliable engine, with many cases of blown head gaskets and failure asthe engine could't really handle the turbo.
With an idling rpm of about 750 on the DICOR, the car won't do a crawl however!!

Captain Pings · 6th July 2006, 15:00

ok. it's been verified ( had practised it long back when climbing loose slushy slopes, but didnt recollect gear etc- so experiment tried again)
T
he gypsy does the 'creep' upto the 3rd gear. If some members were irritated by a black gypsy driving peculiarly slow up delhi's fly-overs and every available incline - the inconvenience is regretted.

For non-members - it was in the interest of 'research.'

ofcourse, when i slot it in either 4H/L - it shudders less. and yup, the idling RPM on my gypsy could do with a little increasing. its at about 850 - 900 at the moment. (and I had to turn the air-con and my extra cooling fan off - reduce load!)

so many factors involved which help the creep - nature of torque curve ( flat? how much in the lower range etc) , gearing, idling RPM etc etc! and diesel's like the landy must have yummy torque curves!

a question for the members who've known defender's well - do they have any feature for climbing too ? ( like the new one's have HDC etc?) - just curious.

sumitkalindi · 6th July 2006, 15:08

Well Sumo, as well as 407 does that, and all trucks manage to do this creep in first gear at almost any incline. And yes fiat(premier padmini) also could do it.

satish_appasani · 6th July 2006, 15:12

My Palio D will also do that with pressing any pedals in 1st gear. I never tested in 2nd gear

5th July 2006, 20:38	#1
islero Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,574 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	A Land Rover speciality.....? I was having a very intersting chat with my uncle who is a Land Rover freak (and one of the reasons behind my own obsession with the marque).He used to own a Defender 110 with the 2.5 turbo diesel engine. We were just talking about the driving experience of the vehicles, when he told me about this incredible feature of a Land Rover 2.5 diesel, which he said not many diesel off roaders are capable of. Well the deal is like this. Say he was at the bottom of the climb in a multi-storey car park. What he would do is, slot the gear into first, get the Landy just moving, and then leave all the pedals completley. BUT THE LANDY WOULD NOT STOP MOVING. It would still trickle forward at a very low speed without its speed dropping or rising. Then all he would have to do was steer the vehicle around, no need to touch the throttle at all. He said this was due to the torque characteristics of the engine, and was also possible in second, and maybe in third too. This really got me thinking. Has anyone experienced this phenomenon in their diesel Landy/jeep etc? I am not very experienced in these things, and I want to know more. What I want to know is, is this a common phenomenon, because I remember reading in some auto magazine that even the hummer was capable of something like this. Cheers, Islero
	() Thanks

5th July 2006, 20:57	#2
Captain Pings BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 61 Thanked: 3 Times View My Garage	oh i love landys! tell u what, i'll try it with my gypsy and let you know if it continues to crawl up an incline!
	() Thanks

5th July 2006, 21:00	#3
Harrie BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KA 03, KL 12, TN 38 Posts: 701 Thanked: 36 Times View My Garage	I am not sure about this but my GTX does the same. I do this in PVR... Forum. Forgot the damm name after 4 months. I slot the car in first and let go off the pedals and car pulls forward speed breakers and all without a hiccup. But this the car would do only if I fill it up with Shell or BP or some good fuel. If i put IBP or ESSAR the car would start knocking... In fact a combination of worn out clutch and low end torque made my wife say that the uno was the easiest car of the lot to drive. Almost like a automatic. First gear. Let go off the clutch and the car will crawl without jerking...
	() Thanks

5th July 2006, 21:07	#4
devarshi84 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ahmedabad - Tor Posts: 4,024 Thanked: 211 Times View My Garage	Our 68 fiat model was capable of this feat but only in 1st if I remember properly.
	() Thanks

5th July 2006, 21:35	#6
pillainp BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 325 Thanked: 170 Times	Our Padmini 137D does this handily. One of them (we had two, but literally gave one away), would climb slopes in third, with only the clutch being released, and no throttle at all. I used to work in the hills around Neyyar Dam with Milma in '96. Those of you who know that area will know that there are a lot of really tough places there. I've gone places with this Padmini that 4WD jeep taxis would not go. This creep feature has helped many times on really bad terrain, where all I had to do was engage first, let out the clutch, and steer: the car would literally drive itself over the tough spots. In fact, after a while, I learned a very valuable lesson - let the car be. I was doing a far worse job negotiating the rough spots than the car was by itself. NPP
	() Thanks

5th July 2006, 22:40	#7
drifter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,488 Thanked: 75 Times View My Garage	And so does my accent crdi uptill 2nd gear...havent tried 3rd. Drifter
	() Thanks

5th July 2006, 23:22	#9
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,730 Times View My Garage	basically first is a crawler ratio (real short). Our 94 Tatamobile did that too. Great for learners coz you can never stall it by dumping the clutch.
	() Thanks

6th July 2006, 09:53	#12
jyobeb Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Madurai Posts: 1,010 Thanked: 704 Times	Most of the older landy's have the 2.5 DI normally aspirated diesels. These have a fairly high idle rpm, which helps the vehicle move along at a crawl in first gear without acceleration. I do it all the time on my friends 90 defender 110. Actually the 2.5 Turbo diesel was not a really reliable engine, with many cases of blown head gaskets and failure asthe engine could't really handle the turbo. With an idling rpm of about 750 on the DICOR, the car won't do a crawl however!!
	() Thanks

6th July 2006, 15:00	#13
Captain Pings BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 61 Thanked: 3 Times View My Garage	ok. it's been verified ( had practised it long back when climbing loose slushy slopes, but didnt recollect gear etc- so experiment tried again) T he gypsy does the 'creep' upto the 3rd gear. If some members were irritated by a black gypsy driving peculiarly slow up delhi's fly-overs and every available incline - the inconvenience is regretted. For non-members - it was in the interest of 'research.' ofcourse, when i slot it in either 4H/L - it shudders less. and yup, the idling RPM on my gypsy could do with a little increasing. its at about 850 - 900 at the moment. (and I had to turn the air-con and my extra cooling fan off - reduce load!) so many factors involved which help the creep - nature of torque curve ( flat? how much in the lower range etc) , gearing, idling RPM etc etc! and diesel's like the landy must have yummy torque curves! a question for the members who've known defender's well - do they have any feature for climbing too ? ( like the new one's have HDC etc?) - just curious.
	() Thanks

6th July 2006, 15:08	#14
sumitkalindi BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kolkata Posts: 376 Thanked: 17 Times View My Garage	Well Sumo, as well as 407 does that, and all trucks manage to do this creep in first gear at almost any incline. And yes fiat(premier padmini) also could do it.
	() Thanks

6th July 2006, 15:12	#15
satish_appasani Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,112 Thanked: 104 Times View My Garage	My Palio D will also do that with pressing any pedals in 1st gear. I never tested in 2nd gear
	() Thanks