Weird problem...Palio

Iknowthisguy · 18th July 2006, 10:00

Hi Guys,
With heavy monsoon rain started in delhi...I experienced a strange problem in my car.
Whenever my left front tyre goes through any waterfill on road, my car starts misfiring/missing. few of the observations are:
1) RPM remains stable in all conditions
2) On throttle...Car doesnt's accelerate at all but RPM keeps on increasing
3) car struggles...gives jerks
4) Engine never stops until switched off (in misfiring stage)

And after 1-2 kms its all fine till it goes again in water.

Strangely nothing happens if right tyre goes into water.

Request all tech gurus for pointers

Cheers

P.S...I have shown the vehicle to A.S.S but they could not replicate the problem under normal conditions.

humyum · 18th July 2006, 10:13

From your first 3 points i dont know some how have a feeling that water has gone inside your clutch assembly.That can be seen by the fact that rpm keeps increasing but the car does not accelerate.The water is causing the clutch to slip.Car struggles and jerks is another sign of water entering the clutch
About the misfiring and missing dont worry about that little water would have entered the delco and could have caused the misfire.Avoid taking the car in water filled arears for sometime.Do some wheelspins to burn a moist layer of the clutch.Things will get back to normal
They same thing happened in my 800 and showed the same syptoms as yours.But after about 12 days everything went back to normal.

Iknowthisguy · 18th July 2006, 10:19

right Humyum..i too thought of same cause.
but do you have any idea why & how water goes into clutch assembly..will it not effect the clutch in any way.
Does that assembly has some gasket which has conked off??

humyum · 18th July 2006, 10:25

There is a stopper(buch)for checking the timing on top of the clutch assembly.Check that out if the rubber has become hard,leaking or loose and replacing it would be the best option.Will cost u around 5 bucks.It does effect the clutch performance and 99% your problems should vanish after some wheelspins and after a few days of run.Sometimes because of water the clutch bearing is also is a problem and when u press the clutch u get the whinning sound.If thats the case the clutch bearing will have to be replaced.

Iknowthisguy · 18th July 2006, 10:55

ok...will check & then take it fwd.

will it affect clutch or any other component??

Thanks humyum

nitinbhag · 18th July 2006, 11:33

- Palio does not have a Delco..
- As far as I know the Siena/Palio/Petra family has a wet clutch, i.e its filled with oil, so water cant go in

this may be a problem where water is splashing on the ignition coils or leads to the plugs.. Next time you go through a puddle and engine is jerking, stop, open the bonnet and see if you can see arcing anywhere..

Iknowthisguy · 18th July 2006, 13:49

nitinbhag...if water goes in any of the plugs or coils then RPM should fluctuate...but it remains stable
when i press the clutch & push throttle everything seems fine but as sson as i release the clutch..car jerks
By jerking i mean that while engine has sufficient power but somehow it is not getting transferred to the wheel...it is transferred in parts(to put it correctly)

If i downshift, problem vanishes for couple of secs & then reappears but its totally gone after couple of metres travelled

I hope I am able to make you understand the problem

cheers

madan80 · 19th July 2006, 09:18

i would go with nitin's suggestion, if you do hit water, stop and check.
but why is it with just the left side.
is there by any chance a leak in your exhaust?
I would suspect water's getting splashed into the coil which is dampening it.

Iknowthisguy · 19th July 2006, 10:27

Guys, I opened the hood last evening though I couldn't find any open/cut spark plug wires or to IG coil...but I noticed a strange thing

The cable going to gearbox, I believe its responsible for gear changes coz it moves when i change gears had a worn out rubber casing...may be water goes through that, just a wild guess

I will ask my service centre to check on that

This is just to update you all..

cheers

paharino1 · 24th July 2006, 20:35

Hey Guys

I have been facing a intermittant problem with my Siena - has occured 2-3 times in the past half year or so.. Occured yesterday as well so writing for getting suggestions

After a 40-50 km run - when i was parking the car - the car was in neutral & I was packing my stuff - the RPM meter & the engine started auto revving - In neutral gear, the RPM needle typically resides around the 1k line - in this case it revved upto 1500-2000, then back to 1500 , then back to 2000. My foot was no where near the acclerator pedal or clutch pedal.

It had happened 2-3 times before as well - when I was parking the car after a 20-25 km ride - when the car is in neutral gear..

turned off the ignition, turned it on again, & the problem dissappeared..

Any indications/suggestions ??

nitinbhag · 25th July 2006, 11:54

Pahari, is your Siena a 1.6?

This thing has been happening in mine for many years. Checked with Fiat and they said its normal. There is apparently some injector self cleaning algorithm in the ECU. If it senses some probable blockage, it tries to send in more fuel to attempt cleaning.

Even if I leave the engine on, it settles down to its usual idling RPM in a couple of minutes.. I have observed that this happens less frequently if I tank up on premium petrol.. maybe because it has cleaning additives?

I would suggest you to try Power for a few days and observe..

paharino1 · 25th July 2006, 13:05

yeah it is a Siena 1.6

I usually use only Power or Speed 93 - Although I try to do a tank full to tank full with either of the fuels - sometimes mix of both does happen ?

Should mixing of petrol ( Power + Speed 93) be a cause of the problem ?

DRC · 25th July 2006, 13:56

I faced the same problem some time when the car was new.

Problem turned out to be with a stepper motor in the throttle body. This one controls the idling.

paharino1 · 25th July 2006, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRC

I faced the same problem some time when the car was new.

Problem turned out to be with a stepper motor in the throttle body. This one controls the idling.

Did u have the stepper motor replaced ? or they had it repaired ? what was the cost or was it in the warranty period ?

DRC · 25th July 2006, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by paharino1

Did u have the stepper motor replaced ? or they had it repaired ? what was the cost or was it in the warranty period ?

This problem popped up 3 days after delivery (on new year days' eve). They replaced the whole throttle body under warranty.

18th July 2006, 10:00	#1
Iknowthisguy BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 63 Thanked: Once	Weird problem...Palio Hi Guys, With heavy monsoon rain started in delhi...I experienced a strange problem in my car. Whenever my left front tyre goes through any waterfill on road, my car starts misfiring/missing. few of the observations are: 1) RPM remains stable in all conditions 2) On throttle...Car doesnt's accelerate at all but RPM keeps on increasing 3) car struggles...gives jerks 4) Engine never stops until switched off (in misfiring stage) And after 1-2 kms its all fine till it goes again in water. Strangely nothing happens if right tyre goes into water. Request all tech gurus for pointers Cheers P.S...I have shown the vehicle to A.S.S but they could not replicate the problem under normal conditions.
	() Thanks

18th July 2006, 10:13	#2
humyum Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 2,750 Thanked: 5,422 Times	From your first 3 points i dont know some how have a feeling that water has gone inside your clutch assembly.That can be seen by the fact that rpm keeps increasing but the car does not accelerate.The water is causing the clutch to slip.Car struggles and jerks is another sign of water entering the clutch About the misfiring and missing dont worry about that little water would have entered the delco and could have caused the misfire.Avoid taking the car in water filled arears for sometime.Do some wheelspins to burn a moist layer of the clutch.Things will get back to normal They same thing happened in my 800 and showed the same syptoms as yours.But after about 12 days everything went back to normal.
	() Thanks

18th July 2006, 10:19	#3
Iknowthisguy BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 63 Thanked: Once	right Humyum..i too thought of same cause. but do you have any idea why & how water goes into clutch assembly..will it not effect the clutch in any way. Does that assembly has some gasket which has conked off??
	() Thanks

18th July 2006, 10:25	#4
humyum Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 2,750 Thanked: 5,422 Times	There is a stopper(buch)for checking the timing on top of the clutch assembly.Check that out if the rubber has become hard,leaking or loose and replacing it would be the best option.Will cost u around 5 bucks.It does effect the clutch performance and 99% your problems should vanish after some wheelspins and after a few days of run.Sometimes because of water the clutch bearing is also is a problem and when u press the clutch u get the whinning sound.If thats the case the clutch bearing will have to be replaced.
	() Thanks

18th July 2006, 10:55	#5
Iknowthisguy BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 63 Thanked: Once	ok...will check & then take it fwd. will it affect clutch or any other component?? Thanks humyum
	() Thanks

18th July 2006, 11:33	#6
nitinbhag BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 262 Thanked: 2 Times	- Palio does not have a Delco.. - As far as I know the Siena/Palio/Petra family has a wet clutch, i.e its filled with oil, so water cant go in this may be a problem where water is splashing on the ignition coils or leads to the plugs.. Next time you go through a puddle and engine is jerking, stop, open the bonnet and see if you can see arcing anywhere..
	() Thanks

18th July 2006, 13:49	#7
Iknowthisguy BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 63 Thanked: Once	nitinbhag...if water goes in any of the plugs or coils then RPM should fluctuate...but it remains stable when i press the clutch & push throttle everything seems fine but as sson as i release the clutch..car jerks By jerking i mean that while engine has sufficient power but somehow it is not getting transferred to the wheel...it is transferred in parts(to put it correctly) If i downshift, problem vanishes for couple of secs & then reappears but its totally gone after couple of metres travelled I hope I am able to make you understand the problem cheers
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 09:18	#8
madan80 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,360 Thanked: 80 Times View My Garage	i would go with nitin's suggestion, if you do hit water, stop and check. but why is it with just the left side. is there by any chance a leak in your exhaust? I would suspect water's getting splashed into the coil which is dampening it.
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 10:27	#9
Iknowthisguy BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 63 Thanked: Once	Guys, I opened the hood last evening though I couldn't find any open/cut spark plug wires or to IG coil...but I noticed a strange thing The cable going to gearbox, I believe its responsible for gear changes coz it moves when i change gears had a worn out rubber casing...may be water goes through that, just a wild guess I will ask my service centre to check on that This is just to update you all.. cheers
	() Thanks

24th July 2006, 20:35	#10
paharino1 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 299 Thanked: 29 Times	Hey Guys I have been facing a intermittant problem with my Siena - has occured 2-3 times in the past half year or so.. Occured yesterday as well so writing for getting suggestions After a 40-50 km run - when i was parking the car - the car was in neutral & I was packing my stuff - the RPM meter & the engine started auto revving - In neutral gear, the RPM needle typically resides around the 1k line - in this case it revved upto 1500-2000, then back to 1500 , then back to 2000. My foot was no where near the acclerator pedal or clutch pedal. It had happened 2-3 times before as well - when I was parking the car after a 20-25 km ride - when the car is in neutral gear.. turned off the ignition, turned it on again, & the problem dissappeared.. Any indications/suggestions ??
	() Thanks

25th July 2006, 11:54	#11
nitinbhag BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 262 Thanked: 2 Times	Pahari, is your Siena a 1.6? This thing has been happening in mine for many years. Checked with Fiat and they said its normal. There is apparently some injector self cleaning algorithm in the ECU. If it senses some probable blockage, it tries to send in more fuel to attempt cleaning. Even if I leave the engine on, it settles down to its usual idling RPM in a couple of minutes.. I have observed that this happens less frequently if I tank up on premium petrol.. maybe because it has cleaning additives? I would suggest you to try Power for a few days and observe..
	() Thanks

25th July 2006, 13:05	#12
paharino1 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 299 Thanked: 29 Times	yeah it is a Siena 1.6 I usually use only Power or Speed 93 - Although I try to do a tank full to tank full with either of the fuels - sometimes mix of both does happen ? Should mixing of petrol ( Power + Speed 93) be a cause of the problem ?
	() Thanks

25th July 2006, 13:56	#13
DRC BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cockpit Posts: 911 Thanked: 64 Times View My Garage	I faced the same problem some time when the car was new. Problem turned out to be with a stepper motor in the throttle body. This one controls the idling.
	() Thanks

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